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What will it take to make a woman president?
In the years since Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign, the number of women leaders in Washington has decreased.
December 15th, 2011
03:39 PM ET

What will it take to make a woman president?

Editor’s Note: Marianne Schnall is a journalist whose writings and interviews have appeared in The Huffington Post, The Women’s Media Center, Glamour Magazine and O, The Oprah Magazine. She is also the co-founder and executive director of Feminist.com, as well as the co-founder of the environmental site EcoMall.com. Her new book is titled  "Daring to Be Ourselves: Influential Women Share Insights on Courage, Happiness and Finding Your Own Voice."

By Marianne Schnall, Special to CNN

It has been three years since we applauded Hillary Rodham Clinton’s “18 million cracks in the glass ceiling” during the 2008 presidential campaign. However, there has been little progress for women in Washington to celebrate since then. In fact, the current statistics on women’s representation in the U.S. government are pretty shocking: while women make up almost 51% of the U.S. population, they are only about 17% of Congress. The United States ranks 90th in the world in terms of women in national legislatures, behind countries such as Cuba, China, Iraq and Afghanistan. Heading into the 2012 election, there seems to not only be an absence of female leadership, but some discouraging trends, like that 17% - last year, for the first time in 30 years, the percentage of women in the House of Representatives actually went down.

Recently I had the opportunity to talk to some pioneering and influential women - political leaders, business executives, publishers and thinkers - and I asked them why they believe women have made such little momentum in Washington just four years after having a near presidential contender - and what we can do to get more women into the pipeline of political leadership.

Nancy Pelosi, House Democratic leader, first female Speaker of the House

“As I’ve said before, you can lose the election but win the campaign, because even by running you’ve asserted your strength and authority. In her historic run for president, Hillary Clinton certainly helped crack what I like to call the ‘marble ceiling,’ which has largely kept women from the halls of power for hundreds of years.

I similarly hoped that becoming the first woman Speaker of the House would lead to more opportunities for those who came after me. But one woman can’t do it all; America, as a nation, needs to make a decision that they want to see women leading. And women have to help women: to run for higher office, to succeed in business, and to excel. There’s nothing more powerful than someone who has succeeded reaching back to lift up the next generation. I hope that we will help each other make history and progress.

Women bring a unique perspective to debates over policy. I hope that women will lead progress on all issues, because every single issue is a ‘women’s issue:’ from the security of our country, to its economy, to prosperity around the world.”

Sheryl Sandberg, chief operating officer of  Facebook

“The last Congressional election was the first election where women actually lost seats in Congress. And as I understand it, one of the challenges is getting women to want to run for office. And I think there are great groups out there trying to do more, but I think it goes to measurable differences between how men and women attribute accomplishment. If you look at how men and women attribute their success, men attribute success to their own intrinsic qualities, and women attribute success to extrinsic things like help from others or luck - or if it’s intrinsic it’s hard work. And so men often look at an opportunity or running for office and they say, ‘I can do that’ and women need more encouragement. And I think a lot of articles have been written about how men will volunteer to run for office and women won’t. I think that’s something we need to nudge along.”

Arianna Huffington, president and editor in chief of The Huffington Post

“I think it’s really what Sheryl Sandberg says to women, you know, 'Don’t leave before you leave.' Stay engaged. If you are going to take time off to have children, that’s great, but don’t leave until that happens. And stay engaged at whatever level – it doesn’t have to be elected office. There are many ways to be a leader.”

Kirsten Gillibrand, New York state senator, founder Off the Sidelines

“I don't know the reason why participation has stalled. Many organizations have done many studies, and one thing they've found is that women really need to be asked to participate – that they respond very well when they're asked to run for office. And the studies also show that when women do run, they win. That they do have the ability. They do have the tenacity. They do have the drive. They can raise the funds. So I think we need a call to action – we need to actually invite women to come to the table – ask them that we need them to come to the table both in corporate America and in political life, because we need their thoughts, views and guidance on these very important decisions that our country is making.

I think the most important message for women is that they can do it. That this is something that they can do. That you can find a way to balance a career and family – that there is a way that you can be part of the decision-making fabric of this country and still be a good mother. For a lot of women, that's the challenge – can I do both? Is it the right time in my family's life to take on these challenges? And my call to action is very comprehensive – do whatever you can do, it's a question of: are you voting? Are you being heard? Are there issues that you care about that you could advocate for and let your representatives know how important it is to you? Would you ever consider running for office? Really making that request of women's participation across the board.”

Jane Fonda, actress, activist and co-founder The Women’s Media Center

“If the media shows women in a degrading, demeaning way, if violence is not taken seriously, if female candidates are covered in the context of how they look and what their hair is like and how they’re dressed as opposed to how the male candidates are referred to, this has an impact on women and girls. Not always conscious – but it can’t help but make us feel somehow we don’t count as much. It’s not a cognitive thing, it’s a visceral response, I think.

One of our mottos and one of our programs is 'Name It, Change It' – if you don’t know it exists and you don’t give it a name to it, you don’t do anything about it. Like in campaigns - we are going to see this a lot in the coming year. Women are treated differently than men when they’re running for office. And it becomes very sexist and misogynist. So we name it in order to change it.”

Gloria Steinem, author, activist, co-founder of Ms. Magazine and The Women’s Media Center

“In the last election I supported Hillary Clinton because I thought she was simply the most experienced, but I felt it was too soon for a woman to win, and that may still be the case, even though she transformed people’s ideas. Because we are raised by women and so we associate women with childhood. Men especially may feel regressed when they see a powerful woman. The last time they saw one they were 8. So one of the most helpful things we can do in the long-term is make sure that kids have loving and nurturing male figures as well as female figures, and authoritative and expert female figures, as well as male figures.”

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Filed under: How we live • Politics • Women
soundoff (301 Responses)
  1. ...a laurel and hardy handshake..............

    Say Ollie, IS MICHELE DARLIN' PRESIDENT YET ?
    .
    Did you mean SARAH DARLIN', Stan ?
    .
    No Ollie, I meant the one THAT DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT US HISTORY.
    .
    Then Stanley, my good man, YOU MUST MEAN THE TEA PARTY and its AFFILIATE, THE GOP !

    December 16, 2011 at 11:23 am | Report abuse |
  2. Neil IL

    Events in the house would be more calm if there were more women present in congress. The men would start acting like gentlemen and not kids stealing candy from eachother.

    December 16, 2011 at 11:18 am | Report abuse |
  3. NVM

    This is unbelievable. What is all this garbage about Woman president, woman this or that? How about woman taking care of family, being a good mother etc? How about man being a good father? This is pure BS. America needs to get its head out of the sand, and just vote for good people. It doesnt matter what kind of genitals they have!

    December 16, 2011 at 11:17 am | Report abuse |
  4. Collin

    Why not? Latin America has beat us in that regard, Argentina has a female president and Chile had President Bachelet in 2006. I say let's give it a shot!

    December 16, 2011 at 11:09 am | Report abuse |
  5. Risky

    WAIT, THIS COULD BE ON TO SOMETHING. Just think about it; women secret service.

    December 16, 2011 at 10:52 am | Report abuse |
  6. Rich

    If Oprah had endorsed Hillary instead of Obama, we'd have a woman President today.

    December 16, 2011 at 10:27 am | Report abuse |
    • irene

      I almost voted for Hillary but she seemed such high maintenance with her feelings about being the first prez. Enuff with her feelings and what can you do for the country. She was a turn-off. I couldn't imagine such an ego in WH.

      December 16, 2011 at 10:36 am | Report abuse |
  7. Nikki

    The US is supposed to be soooo progressive, but never had a woman president. We got Obozo in office and that's been a really, really bad decision. Can't believe I'm saying this, but if Hillary was to run, I'd vote for her. She couldn't screw up any worse than the last several presidents we've had – especially the latest one.
    .
    Hope and change, huh? How's that working out for you??

    December 16, 2011 at 9:57 am | Report abuse |
  8. libbieliclu

    With the number of outstanding women that could be potential Presidential candidates, the likes of Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann are definitely not outstanding much less qualified.

    December 16, 2011 at 9:56 am | Report abuse |
  9. Victor

    Interesting story. The line up is a story more of liberal women than women in general and perhaps that is what is at issue here. Why are there no conservative women...especially since this is an article writeen by a women about women in politics...well...liberal women in politics. But for the best answer I would simply point to the last election and question why a relatively unknown, untested, inexperienced male should have been the nomination over a well accomplished women with vastly more experience, knowledge and intellect. The other part of the answer can be foud in how we treat women when they do run- such as Palin. What a double standard...how many men have ever been looked at under a microscope for how they care for their children or torn apart for the things that have nothing at all to do with running a country. Let's face it...we still think women belong in the home and as long as articles such as this promote only liberal women, and not conservative women as well, you continue that idea held by the majority. Hillary...she is too conservative for the Dems and I would cast my vote right now for her – this is her time unlike any other

    December 16, 2011 at 9:00 am | Report abuse |
  10. David

    All it will take for a woman to be president is for Hillary Clinton to say the following: "I will accept the republican nomination for president." If she switched parties and ran as a republican, the election would not even be close.

    December 16, 2011 at 2:39 am | Report abuse |
    • Michael

      Her conservative values are not recognized by the public only because she is a woman.
      You are absolutely right.

      December 16, 2011 at 7:04 am | Report abuse |
      • alerr1

        Dream On...Never Happen

        December 16, 2011 at 8:59 am | Report abuse |
    • Scott

      Putting all jokes aside, I have no problem with a woman becoming the president and it comes down to the individual, character, honesty, and whether they have the guys to man-up and deal with issues without falling apart. However, I don't look at every woman as though they are capable of holding this position. If you were to ask me what woman I work with has that ability I'd say maybe one. Leaders are not born but made and those skills must be developed by good mentors. Many women have never been given good direction therefor will never be a good leader. Typical, yes men do better at this without training but that is because it is inherent in the male mind, but there are women quite capable of holding their own but most often not. What I don't believe in is this group mentality "all men are great" or "all women are great" at any one thing. There are plenty of guys I know personally that would make me run to Russia if they became the President and the same goes for some women that I work with. I detest this gender-conflict the media keeps on perpetuating because it is irrelevent. Many other social web sites do this and I refuse to partake by reading their articles. Running any country can be daunting but to be a leader of this country, a woman is going to have to really bury their ego and do the right thing and admit to when they are wrong. Having an ego and admitting to being wrong are two things that women are not good at.

      December 16, 2011 at 9:12 am | Report abuse |
  11. Mike

    It really doesn't matter who you put in charge of the government. As long as people try to rule they will continue to fail. If you believe in God you may agree that God's rule will be the only one that ever really works after this system of things end. I realize that there are so many people that do not believe in God these days. That is ok I suppose for you, but realize that there is not any hope at all for you after your current life. Thus you best be comfortable in your stance and realize it is over when your days come to an end.

    As far as politicians go, they may have few gratifying accomplishments but mostly their agendas are self motivated; increase power; make money, establish their legacies, and ensure they are written in the history books, and so on. I really doubt that any politician really cares about what they should. People. Of course they say they do. Let's see them making some sacrifices to prove it. This is just my opinion of course...

    December 16, 2011 at 2:26 am | Report abuse |
  12. Dan M

    Besides Hillary Clinton what are the others qualification to be president? CNN really needs to focus on substance and not just grabbing headlines.

    December 16, 2011 at 2:25 am | Report abuse |
  13. Sam I Am

    You can tell God like indore sportes. Why else would you be able to pick a woman up like a bowling ball?

    December 16, 2011 at 2:22 am | Report abuse |
    • Epidi

      God is female – why else would you be able to grab a man like a bat, swing it, and hit 2 balls at the same time?

      December 16, 2011 at 8:20 am | Report abuse |
  14. truth

    Hottest Member of the GOP – Sarah Palin Photo Gallery Zimbio

    who CARES!!!!

    Eat the pretty fruit honey, im going shopping and we were poisened from then on!!!

    December 16, 2011 at 2:19 am | Report abuse |
  15. Sam I Am

    Why do so many women love the new band "FINGERBANG" ?

    December 16, 2011 at 2:17 am | Report abuse |
  16. joey

    my wife told me , "take out the garbage" , i replied, "you cooked it, you take it out"

    December 16, 2011 at 2:12 am | Report abuse |
  17. Sam I Am

    The very best female political candidate film was "I Spit on Your Grave".

    December 16, 2011 at 1:59 am | Report abuse |
    • joey

      i saw that movies in the 80s. i learned real quick

      December 16, 2011 at 2:01 am | Report abuse |
      • Sam I Am

        The rock scene was perfect!

        December 16, 2011 at 2:21 am | Report abuse |
  18. Sam I Am

    Linda Lovelace was once asked this question her reply was " I think that ....gag...gag... gulp, hummmm, swallow, swallow, mouth hug." It appears to translate to I support the Democratic Presidents

    December 16, 2011 at 1:56 am | Report abuse |
    • joey

      and she was the watergate informant

      December 16, 2011 at 2:03 am | Report abuse |
  19. truth

    forgive me for the bad spelling and grammer, too tired to care. but that might give everyone something to talk about 😉

    December 16, 2011 at 1:56 am | Report abuse |
    • joey

      all forms of communication were made up by humans, changed by humans, destroyed by humans.

      there is no right or wrong. no one cares

      December 16, 2011 at 2:05 am | Report abuse |
  20. truth

    pur God back into the real picture and things will get better, and a strong educated god fearing man will run the show, just like the bible commands!

    thanks for the entertainment tonigt, night all you happy campers lol

    December 16, 2011 at 1:54 am | Report abuse |
    • joey

      which god ? wal mart, google ?

      December 16, 2011 at 2:06 am | Report abuse |
      • truth

        God the Father, the Son and holy Spirit.... They are one and should not be forgotten!

        December 16, 2011 at 2:14 am | Report abuse |
    • @Truth

      "God Fearing"..
      Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? First of all, if your Heavenly Father loves you... then you shouldn't be afraid of Him. I guess if you are someone like Bush and Cheney, who publicly say that they are 'god fearing', while sending thousands of people to die for their profits... well, you can take that kind of politician and shove him where the sun doesn't shine.
      I certainly dont fear your teeny concept of God- god of one small land in one corner of a continent, on one small planet? Give me a break. I may as well fear the god of the Tasmanians. There is no difference. If you want to believe in a god, then you would have to accept that he would be the God of the whole Universe, including countless planets teeming with life... and all those life forms..w.ere also made in his image. Anything less than that would make your idea of a God a puny one.
      A universal God is not going to bother watching over politics. What we do to this world... will be up to us. If we screw it up, and let the polluters win, give breaks to Big Oil, businesses... let the human population continue exploding out of control.. well we will be responsible for the birth mutations, the famine, lack of drinkable water....
      It wont be Gods decision... It will be Man's. God doesnt play politics.
      And just as I will fear no evil... I will fear no god.

      December 16, 2011 at 2:52 am | Report abuse |
  21. truth

    I went to a winter concert tonight for my kids!

    great job guys!

    but come on people! Why do they call it that? it was a Christmas show!!!!!

    Christ's bday celibration!

    We want God back in politics and schools! please and thank you

    December 16, 2011 at 1:47 am | Report abuse |
  22. truth

    this is crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    even the male flower boys are giving in to the idea!

    come on men grow some!

    December 16, 2011 at 1:44 am | Report abuse |
    • joey

      they went to penn state

      December 16, 2011 at 2:07 am | Report abuse |
      • truth

        yeah, that's one sick pup

        December 16, 2011 at 2:16 am | Report abuse |
  23. dubness777

    If there was a woman president, nukes would fly for sure. She would be like, "What is this pretty red button?" Then she would push it and wipe Azerbaijan out. The shen would say, "Oops, i've never really been very good at stuff! Sorry!" Then she would go shopping for panties and cry for a little while for no reason at all.

    December 16, 2011 at 1:39 am | Report abuse |
    • joey

      and at least once a month

      December 16, 2011 at 2:08 am | Report abuse |
  24. SENSE OF DUTY TO HER COUNTRY

    A WOMAN PRESIDENT WOULD ULTIMATELY TURN THIS COUNTRY AROUND IN THE RESPECT THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO TOUCH THAT INNER NEED OF COMFORT THAT SOOTHES THE SOUL & IF YOU LOOK AROUND ITS MUCH NEEDED.

    December 16, 2011 at 1:33 am | Report abuse |
    • dubness777

      And that silly satement is the reason why there won't be a woman president for a loooong time. Touch that inner need of comfort that soothes the soul. HAHAHA! I could picture people staring dreamy eyed at the TV with the mother figure on it and thinking that everything is going to be just peachy now. If people are gonna elect a woman, she ain't gonna be Betty Crocker. She's gonna be a cut-throat that acts like a man, like Hillary Clinton. Or looks like a starved bat, like Pelosi.

      December 16, 2011 at 1:46 am | Report abuse |
    • Sam I Am

      With Jerry Springer as her advisor.

      December 16, 2011 at 1:48 am | Report abuse |
    • Daniel, NJ

      Yeah, right, that's exactly what's not needed. Someone soothing to the inner soul. And you wonder why we haven't had a woman president yet? Hillary simply got ambushed by a better campaign, but otherwise, the comments on here pretty much explain why we haven't had one yet.

      December 16, 2011 at 2:22 am | Report abuse |
    • DC603

      Kind of a ridiculous blanket statement.

      A woman would only make a good president just because she is a woman.

      She's make a good president if she was experienced, knowledgeable, and popular.

      December 16, 2011 at 10:14 am | Report abuse |
    • DaveinSC

      Aunt Bea for president, Opie as V.P., and Barney as attorney general.

      December 16, 2011 at 11:20 am | Report abuse |
  25. Dirk

    Relax, there will be a woman president soon enough. Let's not just vote in any woman simply for the sake of having a female president. We want the right person for the job and that should not hinge on gender, race, ethnicity, etc.

    December 16, 2011 at 1:28 am | Report abuse |
    • Sam I Am

      I want to see her naked before I vote for her.

      December 16, 2011 at 1:49 am | Report abuse |
    • DC603

      Dirk – Exactly.

      December 16, 2011 at 10:14 am | Report abuse |
  26. Sam I Am

    Women cannot be successful in politics as when they are filmed riding their bikes to show how healthy they are you notice that they have removed their bycycle seats and are riding on the roughest part of the trail.

    December 16, 2011 at 1:24 am | Report abuse |
  27. Homer

    How come conservative woman politicians don't whine like this?

    December 16, 2011 at 1:20 am | Report abuse |
    • James

      Too much testosterone.

      December 16, 2011 at 1:21 am | Report abuse |
    • Paul

      Witchcraft doesn't work if you say the chant in a whiny tone.

      December 16, 2011 at 1:25 am | Report abuse |
    • Randy

      They do it's just hard to hear them since they are in the kitchen.

      December 16, 2011 at 1:27 am | Report abuse |
    • Homer

      So conservative woman have too much testosterone?

      December 16, 2011 at 1:27 am | Report abuse |
    • Simon

      Whining implies the ability to have emotions. Sock puppets don't have emotions.

      December 16, 2011 at 1:34 am | Report abuse |
  28. dubness777

    It's Bush's fault that women can't be president.

    December 16, 2011 at 1:17 am | Report abuse |
    • Sam I Am

      Don't you mean " A Bush's Faut?" No one wants crabs.

      December 16, 2011 at 1:21 am | Report abuse |
  29. Sam I Am

    The only thing they are good for is to stick two sharpened pencils in their ears, pull them down to your open pants and shout "Whip some skull on me!"

    December 16, 2011 at 1:15 am | Report abuse |
  30. Anne

    When one party puts up walking punchlines for candidates and depends largely on voting bloc where women are taught to be subservient to men as a matter of faith it is hard to elect women to office.

    December 16, 2011 at 1:12 am | Report abuse |
  31. Whoopitydoo2

    Whew! That was a close one. Don't you dare ever even think about putting Sarah Palin in this article. She was only the most popular governor, male or female, in American history. She didn't play party lines when she ended corruption in the Alaskan Republican Party. She has motivated millions of conservatives to stand up to the Democrats, when the men were too weak to do it. But, you chose to put Jane Fonda in the article, when she took sides with the North Vietnamese government, who were brutally oppressing and killing innocent people. Unbelievable! At least CNN didn't fake like they're anything but biased and liberal.

    December 16, 2011 at 1:02 am | Report abuse |
    • John

      Palin quits when it gets too rough.

      December 16, 2011 at 1:04 am | Report abuse |
      • Henry

        Palin doesn't even start if it gets too rough.

        December 16, 2011 at 1:07 am | Report abuse |
    • Whoopitydoo2

      Actually, Palin couldn't afford having one man continue to sue her over and over again. You liberals crack me up! If you don't get your way, it's not good enough that a free society just didn't agree with you, you throw a fit, protest, burn down buildings, trash cities, make false accusations, twist people's words/intentions, etc... Here's a question for you meth head Occu'tards: why don't you just accept that you don't like America and move to another country?

      December 16, 2011 at 1:13 am | Report abuse |
      • Sam

        I think its past your bedtime. Don't you have to catch a short yellow bus in the morning?

        December 16, 2011 at 1:16 am | Report abuse |
    • k

      really? Listen to the idiocy you are spouting. I would love a woman president but she has got to be one of the most incompetent and stupidest people on the face of this earth. Sadly the proof of all of that is so abundant.

      December 16, 2011 at 1:47 am | Report abuse |
      • k

        Oops sorry got to proofread. Sarah Palin is one of the stupidest most incompetent governors of any state. Proof is abundant.

        December 16, 2011 at 1:50 am | Report abuse |
    • Daniel, NJ

      Good point. They have Jane Fonda in the article but not Sarah Palin, and then wonder why they are not taken seriously.

      December 16, 2011 at 2:21 am | Report abuse |
  32. Clinton lost because...

    she tried to run a campaign using a model of campaigning from the previous decades while Obama (and his staff) developed a style of campaigning that took advantage of social media and decentralized decision making, not because she is a woman. In warfare it was the equivalent of cavalry trying to charge machine guns.

    December 16, 2011 at 12:58 am | Report abuse |
    • Sam I Am

      Bill and Hillary met while they were both dating the same girl in collecge.

      December 16, 2011 at 1:17 am | Report abuse |
    • elizabeth75

      That's completely wrong. She lost because everyone jumped on the bandwagon and white guilt was preyed upon. She lost because the deciding Democrats didn't feel she would win, they had no faith in her. She lost because a smear campaign came about against her and her husband. She lost because other women voted for what they thought was a "cute" guy.

      December 16, 2011 at 1:35 am | Report abuse |
      • Rodger

        You don't make a strong case when you imply that women voted based on how 'cute' the candidate was rather than what they thought about the candidates message and strategy.

        December 16, 2011 at 1:37 am | Report abuse |
      • Arron

        Wait, I voted for Obama based on 'white guilt'? And here I was thinking that I did it after spending hours looking into his stance on the issues.

        Get off your pedestal of victimhood and accept the fact Hillary did not loose the election because women are more vulnerable to prejudice than black men. The original post is correct. Obama was a better strategist than Clinton. Clinton failed to win a campaign she had won from the beginning. She didn't take Obama's campaign seriously until it was too late. She expected everyone to bow out of the race after the first three contests and didn't realize that the Obama campaign was designed to win a marathon and not a sprint.

        December 16, 2011 at 1:48 am | Report abuse |
      • Gary

        Yeah women lose all ability to make a reasonable decision when faced with a cute guy.

        *facepalm*

        December 16, 2011 at 1:55 am | Report abuse |
      • Jenny

        I can make decisions based on more than the looks of a male candidate. I also don't believe there was a conspiracy to keep Clinton out of office.

        December 16, 2011 at 2:00 am | Report abuse |
  33. Dave

    As a former dem, this article is exactly why I left. as an independent I think it's sad that women with non-liberal views are villified. They should be looked up to for standing up for what they believe in, even if you don't agree with it. Not a balanced view and the writer needs to open her mind.

    December 16, 2011 at 12:54 am | Report abuse |
  34. Alerrt1

    Martha Coakley should run...see what she has been doing lately.

    December 16, 2011 at 12:50 am | Report abuse |
  35. jdoe

    The best evidence why women haven't progressed in politics can be seen from these posts.

    December 16, 2011 at 12:49 am | Report abuse |
    • Sam I Am

      Have you seen two blind women trying to find each other in a fish market? It is halarious!!

      December 16, 2011 at 1:18 am | Report abuse |
  36. CalDude612

    The left is so preoccupied with these type of questions. Who will be the first "whatever" or who will be the first female "whatever"?

    Why not just question who is most qualified?

    December 16, 2011 at 12:49 am | Report abuse |
  37. Fred

    I think it is a false dilemma to base all or part of a decision on women's success in politics based on Clinton's failure to become president. She had the nomination in hand but made so many mistakes that she lost it by a narrow margin. Some of her mistakes were based on the arrogance that she was the heir presumptive of the Democratic party. Her outcome can't be considered the measuring stick of success for women in politics.

    That being said women are under represented in our political leadership. There is prejudice by the electorate and by the parties.

    December 16, 2011 at 12:47 am | Report abuse |
  38. Alerrt1

    i was reading an article and was directed to this site...the skeleton closet...its about the current candidates and their hidden or forgotten skeletons...what a read

    December 16, 2011 at 12:47 am | Report abuse |
    • joey

      newts got a huge closet

      December 16, 2011 at 1:01 am | Report abuse |
  39. Allah

    who cares... we don't need a gender based selection process... best person for the job. This kind of partisan bickering about idiotic issues like this is why this country is in the pathetic shape it is. Marianne Schnall ought to get the better part of a good backhand, a toilet to clean and a pile of laundry to do. Dumb wench.

    December 16, 2011 at 12:40 am | Report abuse |
  40. joey

    well, if youre palin, you just quit and sign a book deal

    December 16, 2011 at 12:27 am | Report abuse |
  41. Jo An

    i supported Obama...looking back, I think Hillary would have been a better choice. I detest the way the Republican candidates wives look at their husbands like Nancy Reagan did...Newt's wife looks like a 'space cadet'...

    December 16, 2011 at 12:10 am | Report abuse |
    • amanda

      looking back hillary would have been a better choice? what is wrong with people that they couldn't tell this looking forward?

      December 16, 2011 at 12:25 am | Report abuse |
      • joey

        you are both uninformed and ignorant, read bushs book, he met with all the front runners in 2008, and eplained what he was leaving them, and what needed to be done.

        December 16, 2011 at 12:31 am | Report abuse |
      • amanda

        joey: you are an a$$ and your third grade writing skills obviate my need to state your obvious ignorance.

        December 16, 2011 at 12:42 am | Report abuse |
      • joey

        yep, thought so

        December 16, 2011 at 1:02 am | Report abuse |
      • amanda

        that happens when the ignorant think "allot."

        December 16, 2011 at 4:13 am | Report abuse |
  42. Kris

    Lets see.........Who was it that fought hard to win the Dem Nomination from a woman? And who was it that would not name a woman as his VP? And who was it that fought hard to keep a woman from becoming VP? Hmmm........... Something tells me Mr. President has something against women in the highest political offices!

    December 16, 2011 at 12:07 am | Report abuse |
    • amanda

      nah, he's just an a$$.

      December 16, 2011 at 12:25 am | Report abuse |
    • elizabeth75

      You are right Kris. A half black/half white man couldn't stand that a woman might be president before an biracial man. I suppose we'll have to wait 50 years like we did with voting. And to the woman wiht Ms Magazine or whatever it was who thinks women "aren't ready", maybe you aren't but Hillary was more ready than the one in office today.

      December 16, 2011 at 1:42 am | Report abuse |
      • joey

        women waited allot longer than 50 years to have the legal right to vote

        December 16, 2011 at 1:59 am | Report abuse |
  43. Guest

    I believe a woman can do anything a man can do,but that doing manly things makes her more masculine and vice versa
    Not that there arent exceptions,but a woman who works construction is definitely more manly than a male flower arranger

    December 16, 2011 at 12:07 am | Report abuse |
    • truth

      and that's true too, but we just let them b*itch enough where man just got sick of it and let em do there complaining, now they think they all wear the pants..... blah blah blah, who listening anyways?

      December 16, 2011 at 12:46 am | Report abuse |
  44. GasMan

    If Hillary gave head, Bill would not have had Monica... Just sayin'.

    December 16, 2011 at 12:01 am | Report abuse |
    • amanda

      i guess you should know having given heads to men yourself.

      December 16, 2011 at 12:27 am | Report abuse |
  45. Doctor

    Women have no chance, because they don't play ball. They are absolutely clueless when it comes to loyalty applied to organized corruption.

    December 15, 2011 at 11:58 pm | Report abuse |
  46. davidr

    There are plenty of successful women in all fields. And most of them do it in spite of having to raise families (in many cases: singlehandedly), cook, clean and generally pick up after the men in their lives, do the majority of shopping, drive the kids to after-school activities, and very often all this on top of having to deal with little boys who never grew up, called husbands. In spite of all this, women prevail, and I give them a lot of credit for it.

    December 15, 2011 at 11:50 pm | Report abuse |
    • heshe

      AMEN!

      December 16, 2011 at 12:20 am | Report abuse |
    • john

      @davidr: do you have any idea how bigoted your statement is? Do you think it somehow makes you chic to hate certain birthgroups?

      Not to mention, characterizing the birthgroup that is nearly exclusively responsible for every technological advance in all of human history as perpetual children in need of their mature wives to wipe their noses makes you look like a fool, not them.

      December 16, 2011 at 12:25 am | Report abuse |
    • Lone

      You've been hanging around the wrong people then.

      December 16, 2011 at 12:28 am | Report abuse |
    • dad

      I hate when i read a generic post about women work and then also raise kids, pick up after husbands, etc. Its demeaning to all the working dads like me who do all these things. I work more than my wife and spend more quality time with my daughter than she does. I do more than half the cooking. And on top of that I pay the bills and run all the finances... why? because I'm actually stronger and have more stamina than my wife who gets tired easily or gets too emotional. men are clearly better than women at most things and can even be better at raising children if forced too....we are stronger mentally and physically. tough but women need to accept that.... men were just made that way. better cooks, better scientists, better ceo's, better innovators.. sure there are many female examples but the average women doesn't have what the average man has.....on average men are superior. put the 2 bell curves together there will be some overlap but you will always have ditzy brainless girls loving shiny new purses.

      December 16, 2011 at 1:13 am | Report abuse |
      • truth

        perfectly said dad

        December 16, 2011 at 2:10 am | Report abuse |
      • amanda

        you obviously don't know about bell curves. it has been shown again and again that the bell curve has the same mean, mode and median. only the range is different. so, in fact, you'll have more baseball loving idiot boys than purse loving idiot girls. and from life experience, i would attest that the really stupid are men, rather than women.

        and as evidenced by the polgar sisters, i would say that there would be more geniuses in the women's distribution but women get burdened with household chores and tasks so their chances to develop and exhibit genius gets limited.

        so yeah, be impressed that women have gotten as far as they have despite doing all that they have had to do to keep humanity going so men could go on and say stupid things as you do.

        also, look up and see how many children are killed by their fathers versus by their mothers. only a grade A idiot would think a man would be a better caregiver than a woman would be despite hundreds of thousands of years of evolution. again, an example of a man lying at the extreme left of the curve.

        December 16, 2011 at 4:09 am | Report abuse |
      • amanda

        probably, too, your wife is just a whole lot smarter than you are so is able to manipulate you into doing more via your vanity and hubris.

        December 16, 2011 at 4:11 am | Report abuse |
  47. HollyRae

    Favorite Marxist Quotes by Hillary Clinton:

    "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

    "It's time for a new beginning, for an end to government of the few, by the few, and for the few..... And to replace it with shared responsibility for shared prosperity."

    "(We) ....can't just let business as usual go on, and that means something has to be taken away from some people."

    "We have to build a political consensus and that requires people to giveup a little bit of their own turf in order to create this common ground."

    "I certainly think the free-market has failed."

    "I think it's time to send a clear message to what has become the most profitable sector in (the) entire economy that they are being watched."

    – Hillary Clinton

    December 15, 2011 at 11:47 pm | Report abuse |
  48. Conservative

    So, if you're not a socialist liberal progressive female, you get no respect. If you're not a socialist liberal progressive black, you get no respect. If you're not a slp union member (worker?) or government employee (worker?), then you're not middle class, and get no respect. If you're a white Christian Conservative Male, you get no respect. And this is tolerance?

    December 15, 2011 at 11:46 pm | Report abuse |
    • Sara

      yes

      December 15, 2011 at 11:50 pm | Report abuse |
    • Justin

      Well said.

      December 16, 2011 at 12:20 am | Report abuse |
  49. Ann Marie

    Well CNN look how discriminatory you are in this article..where is Bachman or Palin? DISGUSTING!!!

    December 15, 2011 at 11:43 pm | Report abuse |
    • Bill

      Disgusting is the perfect word to describe Bachmann and Palin. Those women can't hold a candle to someone intelligent, dignified, and competent like Hillary, and anyone who compares them to her should be ashamed of themselves.

      December 15, 2011 at 11:51 pm | Report abuse |
    • E

      Have you ever listened to what they're actually saying? They're absolute idiots and an embarrassment to the entire female population.

      December 15, 2011 at 11:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • Mike

      Part of the problem is because if the female doesn't fit the liberal mold, you are called "disgusting" or and "idiot". More to Ann Marie's point... what about Whitman or Carly Fiorina. What about Shelley Broader, Dianne Craig, Louise Wendling? All very successful woman. Some steer right, some steer left. They are not extreme and do not fit the liberal mold such as the woman that Schnall mentions. Kind of sad, actually.

      December 16, 2011 at 12:20 am | Report abuse |
  50. ItsNotGenderItsBrains

    It's not the gender baby its the brains. Hillary had it all but Palin was the best excuse for loosing in quite some time. She was more of an idiot than Bachman who hates non hetero people.
    WAKE UP PEOPLE......

    December 15, 2011 at 11:41 pm | Report abuse |
  51. HollyRae

    We can thank Barack Obama for putting Hillary in the background and out of the picture as an opponent.

    December 15, 2011 at 11:41 pm | Report abuse |
    • Lone

      Not exactly something she was forced to do now was it? She could have spent this time developing her own agenda.

      December 16, 2011 at 12:22 am | Report abuse |
  52. truth

    woMAN came from man's rib. and must submit to her God fearing man if he is a good one!

    there emotions are too much, for the wait that a president must carry

    December 15, 2011 at 11:37 pm | Report abuse |
    • Katie

      Ah yes, I'm sure in every language in every culture since the time humans could speak was the word for female a derivation of that from the male. That would also explain why men have one less rib.......

      December 15, 2011 at 11:42 pm | Report abuse |
    • Jo An

      Ye gads...where do you live and what do you do?? And where did you go to school...I guess I should only ask where do you go to CHURCH...

      December 16, 2011 at 12:12 am | Report abuse |
    • elizabeth75

      You can't even spell "weight" idiot. You are too weak to live.

      December 16, 2011 at 1:46 am | Report abuse |
  53. Bob

    It has been pointed out by others that most of the women listed in this article are liberal Democrats. It should be noted that most of them are just lousy people. There are so many skelitins in Hillary’s closet to even begin to list; Nancy profiteered off her position; Arianna is just a crude, bitter woman; Jane Fonda, well, another long list, but anti-American is at the top; Gloria Steinem? Good grief.

    December 15, 2011 at 11:37 pm | Report abuse |
    • Daniel, NJ

      So well put. These are lousy human beings, thus they represent exhibit A in why we don't have a woman president yet. I will say that though I disagree with Hillary politically, she does have what it takes to be President.

      December 16, 2011 at 2:26 am | Report abuse |
  54. jane

    i just thought of this today. i still have a jane fonda coffee table (originally designed as a step i believe). i've used it for a coffee table since the late 80's and it's still the most used piece of furniture in the house. ha! she would laugh.

    December 15, 2011 at 11:36 pm | Report abuse |
  55. Trigster

    I'm ready to hand the country over to women. We've "ruled" it for over 200 years, and maybe we'd be better off. Wait, who am I fooling, it's all a bunch of nonsense and nothing would change.

    December 15, 2011 at 11:36 pm | Report abuse |
    • Terry

      One major problem for women is when the run for office they are put down by the liberal media and democrats. Every time a Rupublican woman runs for higher office she is degraded and put down. SO, why would a woman put herself in this position?

      December 15, 2011 at 11:46 pm | Report abuse |
  56. HollyRae

    CNN, thank you for the 'Who's who?" of 'America-hatin' communist women that ridicule the country that gave the right to speak out and enjoy lives of luxury.

    December 15, 2011 at 11:34 pm | Report abuse |
  57. complacent?

    what is it called when people ignore things that are wrong because things are going well for them right then so they don't take up the cause? sort of like men that go along with patriarchy. it works for them (not really, but they think it does at the moment). what is the name for that?

    December 15, 2011 at 11:33 pm | Report abuse |
  58. sameeker

    When I see equality in divorce, child support and custody, we can then talk about equality for women in other areas. Oh yeah, let's not forget about equality in the criminal justice system.

    December 15, 2011 at 11:31 pm | Report abuse |
  59. Bob

    The only reasons Palin and Bachmann are hated with vengence is because their conservative. This tells me that liberal women could care less on how they are treated by the press. Look how Hillary was treated in 2008 when the media was all for Obama..

    December 15, 2011 at 11:30 pm | Report abuse |
  60. James

    Maybe one should try for VP first? There have only been a relative handful of Presidents in the history of our nation and I can count the ones we've had since women entered the workplace in general on my fingers. The fact that we have not had a woman as President hardly indicates that women have not made progress.

    December 15, 2011 at 11:27 pm | Report abuse |
  61. ImDemocratBiatch

    First of all, im glad Bachman is not even in one of the pictures, don't care if she was mentionned either... But Hillary Clinton is a formidable woman, I'm positive that if she runs again, she can be elected... she's awesome! and you republican, when im making these comments is not a democrat vs republican thing, just of the records... Hillary can beat the crap out of any of the republican presidential candidate while holding her 2 days old puppy in her hand...
    And again republicans, it was just an expression (or was it?)

    December 15, 2011 at 11:19 pm | Report abuse |
  62. Ed Sr of Dallas Tx

    What will it take to make a woman President? That is simple! It will take an act of Congress and you all know the answer to that one!

    December 15, 2011 at 11:08 pm | Report abuse |
  63. HWB

    Where is my posting?

    December 15, 2011 at 11:08 pm | Report abuse |
  64. McGuffin

    Perhaps women are just less naturally aggressive than men, and thus are less drawn to seek positions of power. It's also possible that women who *are* aggressive tend to make others uncomfortable because there is something unusual about them, predisposing them to losing out to other candidates.

    However, I doubt that either of those are the reasons we don't have a female president. So far our choices have been Clinton, who was a partisan facing Obama's message of hope, Palin, who is a class A moron, and Bachmann, who is a class A moron. What does it say for women when only the dumbest and craziest seem to be in a position to move up? Perhaps intelligent and reasonable women are smart enough to pursue nobler interests than modern politics.

    December 15, 2011 at 11:00 pm | Report abuse |
    • George

      Thank you. It's nice to see a well reasoned thought on cnn.com every once in a while.

      December 16, 2011 at 2:28 am | Report abuse |
  65. chicagok

    The Obama White House has been charged with being anti-woman! It is probably true. Liberal Democrats tend to abort babies and have s!x with multiple women! Clinton, Kennedy, Hart, Jesse Jackson, Edwards, ... Democrats are clearly womanizing p3nises. It is what it is!

    December 15, 2011 at 10:53 pm | Report abuse |
  66. Martina

    I think for a woman to get into a politics in this country (and many others) means to step into a lot of dirt. And it seems that women in general have more class to go as low as men are willing to go.

    December 15, 2011 at 10:45 pm | Report abuse |
  67. Bill

    Jane Fonda, give me a break. This woman is a disgrace to our country. The biggest thing she could do for this country is fill sa bathtub full of nice warm water, get settled in, and drop a toaster in it.

    December 15, 2011 at 10:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • Terry

      You got that straight. She is a total disgrace to the country.

      December 15, 2011 at 11:50 pm | Report abuse |
    • GasMan

      Hanoi Jane can rot in He!!

      December 15, 2011 at 11:59 pm | Report abuse |
  68. AesopsRetreat Dot

    Hey, how about that Sarah Palin or Michele Bachmann? Arent they women too?
    Or are they just not "your kind of women?" You know, the kind that actually like kids and family.

    December 15, 2011 at 10:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • McGuffin

      I take it that liking kids and family is a euphemism for being woefully uneducated and having no business governing a country. Folksiness is not sufficient grounds for electing someone to decide our future.

      December 15, 2011 at 11:07 pm | Report abuse |
    • SurRy

      Your post makes no sense. No wonder you like those two simpletons.

      December 15, 2011 at 11:37 pm | Report abuse |
      • Terry

        Even here in the comments woman are being put down and you wonder why the article was written in the first place.

        December 15, 2011 at 11:52 pm | Report abuse |
  69. mike

    Why are all the women in the article leftists?

    December 15, 2011 at 10:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • CJ

      Because your reading a Government run leftest news organizations article

      December 15, 2011 at 11:26 pm | Report abuse |
    • appapo

      I was just wondering the same.

      December 15, 2011 at 11:31 pm | Report abuse |
    • HollyRae

      That's an easy one.

      CNN supports elite communist women.

      December 15, 2011 at 11:49 pm | Report abuse |
  70. Aces Full

    Men are far less represented in the nursing field, it's just not fair.

    December 15, 2011 at 10:43 pm | Report abuse |
  71. LouAz

    Twas a woman who drove me to drink. I never had the decency to write and thank her ~ WC Fields

    December 15, 2011 at 10:43 pm | Report abuse |
    • GasMan

      Amen!

      December 16, 2011 at 12:00 am | Report abuse |
  72. earth2loons

    bla

    December 15, 2011 at 10:41 pm | Report abuse |
  73. AesopsRetreat Dot

    Oh you poor little babys. How on G_O_D_S green earth do you even wake up in the morning and drag your sorry A_S_S_E_S out of bed to face this outlandishly disproportionate planet?

    Oh Whoa is you – WHOA is you !

    December 15, 2011 at 10:38 pm | Report abuse |
    • McGuffin

      Woe?

      December 15, 2011 at 11:08 pm | Report abuse |
    • Janiece Staton

      WOW! Are you bitter and angry toward ALL women, or what?!?!?! Can you not identify a SINGLE female in the world around you, who is working hard, acting responsibly, or setting an ethical example for others? If you can't, then you must be living in a monastery, living in the backwoods somewhere, or confined to a male prison. How tragic that you've ended up this way. I sure hope you don't have any daughters, or sons either, for that matter...

      December 16, 2011 at 5:37 am | Report abuse |
  74. Bill

    Nancy Pelosi has probably set the goal of a woman president back by a good 50 years. Witch

    December 15, 2011 at 10:38 pm | Report abuse |
  75. dede

    It takes courage. It takes a willingness to stand there and be a target. Even if the person has no skeletons to bare, unless you have the drive to attempt to make a difference, it won't happen, not in today's world. Too much has changed for the worse. There are no more leaders; only power-hungry people who want control over the lives of others. Power and money. That's what it has been about for the last 40+ years.

    December 15, 2011 at 10:34 pm | Report abuse |
    • Elizabeth

      I agree, but I would add nastiness to power and money. Some of the comments here, instead of adding anything to the article that might have been omitted, they instead advocate murder. Considering that Gabby Giffords almost died because of such a person, it is no wonder that women do not want to run for office.

      December 15, 2011 at 11:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • Janiece Staton

      I agree that it DOES take TREMENDOUS COURAGE, but I disagree that there are any responsible, wise, competent leaders left. The corrupt and/or incompetent ones that are holding office are mostly just there, because not enough American adults are committed enough to stay informed on political issues, hold their representatives accountable for ALL of their public actions, and show up to VOTE, every time there is an election. When responsible, hard-working adults don't bother to take their citizenship responsibilities SERIOUSLY, then we get the kind of MEGA-MESS we've got going on in the USA today.

      December 16, 2011 at 5:41 am | Report abuse |
  76. kamana kapu

    Every living thing everywhere had to have a mother but not a single living thing anywhere truely needed a father, brother, son or husband.
    At one time all life on the planet was molecular and female because it was too cold for the male molecules to survive.

    December 15, 2011 at 10:34 pm | Report abuse |
    • JG59

      Thoreau believed that it was the woman's burden of childbearing and motherhood that made men merely equal to women. But for that, he believed, women would prove to be far superior.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:41 pm | Report abuse |
      • Janiece Staton

        Now that women have the CHOICE of whether to have children or not and/or how many children to bring into this overcrowded planet, the balance of power is shifting between the genders. Along with it, comes a re-shifting of the RESPONSIBILITIES that COME with power, as well.

        December 16, 2011 at 5:44 am | Report abuse |
  77. Misandry Chronicles

    What's with the feminist preoccupation with what men are doing? Is that the measure of success to have jobs and positions traditionally held by men? Why not chart your own course? I've seen some hopeful signs: all female professional basketball, the female voting caucus in congress, etc. I've also seen some pretty pitiful displays of women on the sidelines (literally) such as the side line commentary at NFL games (those "journalists" have little to add). An even sadder sight is watching the women act as discussion "facilitators" on ESPN. I guess ESPN gets points for hiring them, but watch closely and it is sooo sad to see them always posing the prepared questions to the guys (note it is never the other way around . . . ever ask why?). So desperate to be on the field that they will settle for an absence in the broadcast booth. For pete's sake start your own sports network and let the men be on the periphery if it makes you feel better. The funny part is women really believe that getting to do what men do, in an structures set up by men, means they have power. Yeah right. Barking up the wrong tree for sure. Why make men the standard? Simply silly.

    December 15, 2011 at 10:22 pm | Report abuse |
    • Becky

      As much as I hate it, and as convoluted as your statement seems, you actually have a point. We are 51% of the population and so if we decided to support our gender and run the place we could do it. The same goes for your comment about ESPN. We are not using our heads! If we backed our own interests with our money and our votes there would be no question about us having our fair share of the pie. Darn . . . I hate it when a man has a point!

      December 15, 2011 at 10:30 pm | Report abuse |
      • A

        Part of the reason, Becky, is that while women make less than 50 percent of the income (which given your statement, you'd likely think is misogyny defined), they CONSUME over 70 percent of the wealth in this country (which you probably think is pretty cool without a shred of self-awareness). In other words, women depend on men to work so that said men can be taxed and their wealth can be transferred over. Hence, women don't form networks and industry with their own money - they've already got a system where working less actually nets them more wealth than the worker, en masse.

        December 15, 2011 at 11:50 pm | Report abuse |
    • McGuffin

      I think you make a good point. In my opinion, feminists do a great disservice to women by saying that a "strong" woman is exactly like a man. In many ways, I think feminists hate women more than anyone else. They want to turn them all into men. A strong woman is nurturing and caring, not aggressive and power-hungry. Why not celebrate the natural strengths of women instead of being ashamed of them?

      December 15, 2011 at 11:14 pm | Report abuse |
    • James

      Well said. Feminism seems obsessed with equal in the sense of equal = same. Men and women are most certainly not the same. I'm not saying one gender is superior to the other, but they are certainly different. Each brings something of value to the table and it would work better if they worked together on complementing each other than one trying to replace the other.

      December 15, 2011 at 11:32 pm | Report abuse |
    • Janiece Staton

      Women are still relative newcomers to the "outside of home" workplaces in the USA. Thus, we've been making mistakes along the way, including too often using men as role models. You are correct, from my perspective, in believing that it would be wiser for the women of this country to become the role models for men. Perhaps THAT way, we could FINALLY stop all of the needless wars and bloodshed!

      December 16, 2011 at 5:48 am | Report abuse |
  78. NateFromIndiana

    I find myself reminded of the Hunter Thompson quote, "how low do you have to stoop in this country to be president?" I give women credit for having perhaps intentionally trailed behind the front-runners in the race to discard all principles and ethics.

    December 15, 2011 at 10:17 pm | Report abuse |
    • JG59

      Yes, and the assaults on women are always personal. Newt is not the world's hansomest man but to date I don't know of any derogatory comments regarding his hair or his ample thighs. Only his character,
      What's really said is that we are raising a generation of women to believe that when a woman aspires to change the world and her country that everything is fair game. Even her children. Remember the vicious assault on Chelsea by everyone from Rush to Howard Stern? Like these guys are eye-candy.
      When it comes to this game, men ( and sadly, some women) know where to strike where it hurts. Even one's children. Mud-slinging is not a sport most women choose to participate in. And what we lose as a result is very sad.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:26 pm | Report abuse |
      • A

        Yea, but you can call Herman Cain or Rick Perry dumb, and get away with it while the mere suggestion of a woman (especially a liberal one) being dumb is met with cries of "misogyny". Double standard indeed, eh?

        December 15, 2011 at 11:46 pm | Report abuse |
      • Janiece Staton

        This goes right back to what I posted above – the lack of individuals with all types of biological makeups – failing to follow the GOLDEN RULE – treating others as THEY would wanted to be treated. If we ALL did that, the USA would be a remarkable place and a FAR HAPPIER ONE, for ALL!

        December 16, 2011 at 5:50 am | Report abuse |
  79. blursd

    What I think speaks volumes about this article is that it ostensibly claims to focus on "all" women politicians and only mentions and shows Democrats and liberals ...

    Because, you know ... conservative and Republican woman politicians don't exist.

    Could this article get any more biased and sanctimonious ...?

    December 15, 2011 at 10:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • Margaret

      The problem with most of the women running on the republican side is the same as the men on the republican side, the least of the lot have risen to the surface. We saw so much of Palin and Bachman that I want to gag. Where are the informed, and educated men and women? The ones who actually listen to the people, and not just a few talking heads, and religious nuts who want them all to sign pledges. I don't want some woman who is subservient to her husband. She should be an equal partner. If not then stay home and bake brownies and leave politics to the ones with brains. They are catering to a very small percentage of the population.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:29 pm | Report abuse |
      • Jeff

        WHAT? If a woman isn't liberal she isn't educated? If she believes in God she is an idiot? Listen to the people? Are you insane? The "people" are working to pay the taxes for the occupy *pick a city* idiots who choose to be a problem and not help fix anything. The "people" are going to speak in less than a year when they elect someone who is probably not qualified to be president, but will darn sure be slowing us down from the disaster we have now!

        December 15, 2011 at 10:49 pm | Report abuse |
      • James

        Read that again, she didn't say there aren't any educated religious conservative women, heck I know a couple of them myself, but none of those who have jumped into the limelight fit those categories. Palin and Bachman are both so pathetic in so many ways that it isn't even worth listing them.

        December 15, 2011 at 11:34 pm | Report abuse |
    • jmhuber1

      No. It could not.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:53 pm | Report abuse |
  80. Barry Cordwell

    I think I get the point of the article, but it isnt very balanced. A true journalist with an aim at "women in politics" would ad perpectives of not just as far left extremists as possible. As a conservative I tend to agree, but am turned off witht eh promotion of only one perpective. For this article the writer (I hesitate to use journalist) should have taken the pulse of numerous women in politics. Regardless of party affilation. Would give much more creidibilty.

    December 15, 2011 at 10:07 pm | Report abuse |
    • Janiece Staton

      I agree with you. This is part of how and why Americans tend to be so divided. We need to hear from a broad spectrum of women and, not necessarily just those who are famous, either. Fame doesn't always bring wisdom and/or thoughtful insight, with it.

      December 16, 2011 at 5:54 am | Report abuse |
  81. Jonathan

    A woman president is still very far away because of two obstacles: #1. men who hate women that are faster, smarter and more successful then themselves – AND #2. the women who are scared of men and will follow the men blindly, and silently.

    December 15, 2011 at 10:05 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ovaless

      ... which explains the faster, smarter part ...

      December 15, 2011 at 10:21 pm | Report abuse |
    • Tian Ti

      Also women in my experience tend to keep tearing each other down. Jealousy. Sad.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:34 pm | Report abuse |
      • JG59

        Women can be each others worst enemies. But I've worked with men 20+ years. Women are pettier when it comes to the day to day stuff of life. But when it comes to the big picture and issues we unite.
        Men are the opposite. Men can yell at each other and back-stab but still go out at 6 and have a beer and get along. But with men, it's the big stuff that causes the divisions. Everything is about who outdoes who.
        So yes, women can be mean. But in a crisis, the ladies are amazingly supportive of each other. More so than men.

        December 15, 2011 at 10:51 pm | Report abuse |
      • A

        JG, the vast majority of battles in history have been fought by men who are able to quickly and effectively unite during a terrible situation. In fact, most of the time, they're protecting the huddled masses of women and children. It's absurd to suggest that women are better at "uniting" during a crisis. Though fairly apt analysis from a person who likely thinks women face a glass ceiling, but completely ignores the glass floor they stand on.

        December 15, 2011 at 11:44 pm | Report abuse |
      • Janiece Staton

        Actually, in my experience as an RN, in a crisis BOTH women AND men will pull together and get whatever needs to be done, done. However, I've noticed over the years that (generally speaking – only), women are more cautious about labeling something a "crisis", than men are. It's REALLY easy for individuals of BOTH genders, to make rash decisions, especially when they don't have all of the information they need and are quick to judge others negatively, instead of the other way around.

        December 16, 2011 at 6:00 am | Report abuse |
  82. JG59

    I was going to reply to some of these comments when I realized I could never keep up with thses mysogynists.
    Spending the night alone again fellas? No surprise.

    December 15, 2011 at 10:05 pm | Report abuse |
    • Sam I Am

      3 women, as usual, are paying me to stay the night.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:06 pm | Report abuse |
      • JG59

        Which can only mean they are on a poster taped to the ceiling over your bed. Have fun and good night.

        December 15, 2011 at 10:12 pm | Report abuse |
      • Not Sam I Am

        Your mommy doesn't count, Sam.

        December 15, 2011 at 10:13 pm | Report abuse |
      • beadlesaz

        Never hurts to dream – ;-))

        December 15, 2011 at 10:14 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ovaless

      My wife is getting a kick out of this horsecrap.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:18 pm | Report abuse |
    • meninist

      Boom!

      December 16, 2011 at 12:44 am | Report abuse |
  83. Sam I Am

    Jane Fonda? Miss Viet Cong? She put the K in Kunt. She makes a perfect Democratic politician.

    December 15, 2011 at 10:03 pm | Report abuse |
  84. Aces Full

    Men and Women are not equal, get over it.

    December 15, 2011 at 9:58 pm | Report abuse |
    • JG59

      Are you suggesting that men fall short of the ladies? I don't think that's fair.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:01 pm | Report abuse |
    • Aces Full

      @JG59 – Yes, in some areas men fall short of women just as in some areas women fall short of men.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:08 pm | Report abuse |
    • Janiece Staton

      Individuals are different. Get over it!

      December 16, 2011 at 6:02 am | Report abuse |
  85. Ovaless

    Jane Fonda's inclusion invalidates any article.

    December 15, 2011 at 9:58 pm | Report abuse |
    • beadlesaz

      Very true. I try to be forgiving and willing to compromise – but she is one that crossed a line that I can't forget. (Telling the VC about the POW who passed a note to her.)

      December 15, 2011 at 10:15 pm | Report abuse |
  86. harleybike

    Women have the crab mentality. They pull each other down. Period.

    December 15, 2011 at 9:50 pm | Report abuse |
    • Pelle

      Actually, women have a duel-sided sword faced by no other minority. They want equal rights...but not if it means being disliked by men. Ethnic, racial & religious minorities face no similar double burden: they want equal rights & don't particularly care if it ticks off the majority in power. At the risk of sounding like I'm endorsing a benign stereotype, I will thank god for lesbians who are among the very few women willing to seek equal rights – regardless of men's reactions.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:05 pm | Report abuse |
      • JG59

        Because, still, much of a woman's power can be be drawn from that of men.

        Very insightful and a point of view rarely represented. Enlightening. Thank you.

        December 15, 2011 at 11:17 pm | Report abuse |
      • A

        Actually, Pelle, women and girls are favored en masse by modern society, whether it be in education, healthcare, preferential treatment in family courts, divorce law, and criminal justice. In other words, regardless of whether women "dislike" being "disliked" by men, they seem to be just fine with legislation throwing the vast majority of men under them.

        December 15, 2011 at 11:40 pm | Report abuse |
    • Janiece Staton

      So you've met and spoken to every woman on the planet so far, I'm guessing, huh? How else could you have painted with such a broad brush?!?!? You must have lived a VERY busy life, to have jet-setted to every home around the globe.

      December 16, 2011 at 6:05 am | Report abuse |
  87. David

    As long as things like Alimony are still in the books, we can't be truly equal. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you are equal or you are not.

    December 15, 2011 at 9:49 pm | Report abuse |
    • BigRed

      What has alimony to do with the article? Next thing you'll be saying is that child support violates the word of God.....(a male God).

      December 15, 2011 at 9:55 pm | Report abuse |
      • Sam I Am

        Get back on that street corner and earn me some money!

        December 15, 2011 at 9:55 pm | Report abuse |
      • Sam I Am

        Divorce is the modern woman's way of financing a house.

        December 15, 2011 at 9:56 pm | Report abuse |
      • David

        What does God (male or female or whatever) have to do with the article?

        Family law has everything to do with the perception and reality of the position of women in society today. The law is currently written in many states treating women as helpless little nothings. You can't have that be the case, and complain about public perceptions that work against womens favor in politics. You can't be the big bad chief and the little helpess victim at the same time.

        December 15, 2011 at 10:03 pm | Report abuse |
      • logic

        David, remember, you can't use logic in a situation like this, this is the internet, the realm of emotions. Combined with feminists who seem to hate men, women, and most especially logic. They won't listen to any of it. You could have scientific studies backing you up and they will call for your head because they didn't like the way what you said made them feel.

        December 16, 2011 at 12:31 am | Report abuse |
    • Pelle

      Depending on the state, men can receive alimony from women, too.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:07 pm | Report abuse |
    • Margaret

      About the only women who get alimony anymore are the ones with high powered lawyers. The average Jane usually finds herself living in a small apartment, and trying to make ends meet.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:34 pm | Report abuse |
    • Janiece Staton

      Both women and men receive alimony. Some people of both genders choose not to get married, either. We each have gifts, talents, skills, and knowledge to offer each other, so there's no way we're truly "equal" to each other, but we can try to develop systems that are more just to all, I believe.

      December 16, 2011 at 6:07 am | Report abuse |
  88. Sam I Am

    The traitor Jane Fonda? Good grief. All women want to do is marry an ATM and complain about everything except them. They should get their biscuits in the oven and their buns in the bed.

    December 15, 2011 at 9:46 pm | Report abuse |
    • Not Sam I Am

      Poor Sam, did a smart, strong, powerful woman hurt you? It's okay, go back and play with your toy trucks. I'll pretend I didn't see you cry.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:05 pm | Report abuse |
      • Sam I Am

        Just because you made money in a show in mexico with a donkey and picking up coke bottles without using your hands does not make you anything less than a spitter instead of a swallower.

        December 15, 2011 at 10:08 pm | Report abuse |
  89. Eddie

    American women are out of control. Sympathy is the last thing they need.

    December 15, 2011 at 9:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • Sara

      Out of control? Honey, you ain't seen nuthin yet.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:27 pm | Report abuse |
    • Margaret

      Yeah that is why today they reported that 1 in 3 is abused by their partner. That is out of control all right.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:46 pm | Report abuse |
    • Janiece Staton

      Out of WHOSE control, exactly? YOURS?!?!?! Me thinks thou wishes to be a "master" and the days of slavery are OVER, in the USA, in case President Abraham Lincoln's memo never got through to you!

      December 16, 2011 at 6:10 am | Report abuse |
  90. KevinB

    people are naturally drawn to certain jobs/careers. Obviously, women are not that interested in these types of roles. it's not a crime that few women are in politics. it's only natural.

    December 15, 2011 at 9:42 pm | Report abuse |
    • JG59

      WTH?

      When you're done reading the Old Testament feel free to come back and join us.

      December 15, 2011 at 11:22 pm | Report abuse |
    • logic

      JG59, what part of what he said was from the old testiment? The fact that he might have referenced women and men have different interests was in the article here. Women don't seem drawn (you know compelled by their interests) to politics. Less women attempt it than men. That isn't a sign of men holding them back as much as it is a sign that most women seem to be less interested in being involved in politics. There is nothing wrong with that, we should not compel women to do something they are not interested in.

      December 16, 2011 at 12:36 am | Report abuse |
    • Janiece Staton

      There's nothing "natural" about it! Women have been leading cultures around the planet, for thousands of years! That part tends to get left out of most history books, however. Funny how it turns out that way. Many of the Native American tribes were matriarchal, before the Europeans arrived with their guns and European diseases and tried to commit genocide, while stealing everything the natives had ever depended upon/used.

      December 16, 2011 at 6:13 am | Report abuse |
  91. Malik

    Many evolutionists, including Darwin, taught that women were both biologically and intellectually inferior to men.” If that's true, why do most people accept the theory of evolution?

    December 15, 2011 at 9:36 pm | Report abuse |
    • mickey1313

      It is a twisting of words. It is a statment about physical strength. Both genders have different boons and weaknesses. It was never said females are inferior, just lesser in some (physical) ways, and men are lesser to females in other ways. I do not believe it was ever stated by science that women in general are inferior to men. But there are masginistic people in all times.

      December 15, 2011 at 9:43 pm | Report abuse |
      • Janiece Staton

        Actually, there's been a tremendous amount of research done over the years, demonstrating, that in the USA, females out-survive males in EVERY AGE GROUP, including PRENATALLY! Women's bodies are "built to last". So, we just keep going and going and going, long after the men are gone. Every woman needs to be prepared to LIVE ALONE, at some point or other in her life. The odds are VERY GOOD, that she's going to end up that way, even if she has the most WONDERFUL couple relationship, on the planet!

        December 16, 2011 at 6:17 am | Report abuse |
    • Nicy3

      I think you've confused Darwin with the bible.

      The bible, in it's infinite wisdom, teaches that women are so inferior that they should be subjected to death by stoning if they are found to not be virgins; that if a woman's husband dies before a child is born then she must sleep with his brother and have his spawn instead; and that forcible rape of women is perfectly fine in the case of war, and that the women are spoils of war. Religion in general continues to perpetuate a myth that women are somehow inferior to men, and that they are unfit to even make their own decisions regarding their bodies. What kills me is that many religious women unflinchingly buy into the myth.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:08 pm | Report abuse |
      • Janiece Staton

        Having once been an ultra-conservative young adult, I can say that most of the women who "buy into" the traditional stereotypes of women, are poorly educated and/or isolated. With knowledge (especially in the form of higher education), comes POWER. Once the mind of ANY human becomes more enlightened, that individual becomes more EMPOWERED. This is one of many reasons why ultra-conservatives are so fearful of exposing their children (especially their female children), to too much education. They don't want them to become empowered – preferring they remain ignorant and subservient, instead.

        December 16, 2011 at 6:23 am | Report abuse |
  92. Janet

    Tolerance is what is missing. Even though one of the basic tenets of all religions is tolerance, we have cast that aside in favor of "me first, last always and with the most money!" Once tolerance returns, we will no doubt see a female president.

    December 15, 2011 at 9:31 pm | Report abuse |
    • mickey1313

      unfortunatly we need a comeing together of americans from both sides of the spectrem, but it seems that it is harder and harder to reason from people on the other side of line these days.

      December 15, 2011 at 9:45 pm | Report abuse |
    • Janiece Staton

      I agree with you! That's why I posted the need for ALL of us to return to regularly practicing the "original" GOLDEN RULE! While many religious people pay "lip service" to that notion, it hasn't survived throughout millenia and traveled all around the globe throughout most major religions, for no reason. It has STOOD the "test of time". Thus, we would ALL be WISE to return to making it our standard way of interacting with each other.

      December 16, 2011 at 6:26 am | Report abuse |
  93. Malik

    According to Charles Darwin's "Descent of Man," women were less evolved than men, and because of their smaller brains, they were “eternally primitive,” childlike, less spiritual, more materialistic, and “a real danger to contemporary civilization.”

    December 15, 2011 at 9:26 pm | Report abuse |
    • mickey1313

      i believe the ststed work predates On the Origen of Species. And on the same line, most of science used to suport the claim that "blacks" were less evolved then "whites", also now know to be false. The grad thing about science is the more you learn, the more it grows. Religon stays they same, or become hypocritical.

      December 15, 2011 at 9:47 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ovaless

        Wha?

        December 15, 2011 at 9:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • GinaLove

      Are you quoting Darwin to say that this is your stance??

      December 15, 2011 at 10:09 pm | Report abuse |
    • Pelle

      One of my favorite "women are inferior" arguments was posited by the late Shah of Iran who pointed out as proof of the inferiority of women, the lack of female eqivalents to Mozart, Newton & Socrates. I so wanted someone to ask him where the female equivalents of Stalin, Hitler, Bundy et al were. Although thenot have been a few female serial killers, I know not one who raped & tortured her male victims before death. (Countess Bathory doesn't, er count, given her victims were female).

      December 15, 2011 at 10:17 pm | Report abuse |
    • Margaret

      Of course women were more childlike back then, that's how they were raised. It is interesting that the number of women in colleges and universities is rising. Back then very few were given even basic education.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:50 pm | Report abuse |
  94. Ovaless

    balls

    December 15, 2011 at 9:25 pm | Report abuse |
  95. Ray

    YES

    December 15, 2011 at 7:27 pm | Report abuse |
  96. rhonda

    LOL @ women in leadership positions. they arent worth as much as a real human being in gods eyes

    December 15, 2011 at 6:40 pm | Report abuse |
  97. Zuhayr 2001@yahoo.com

    My first e-mail to you

    December 15, 2011 at 5:41 pm | Report abuse |
  98. Janiece Staton

    From my perspective, I believe there are two primary reasons for women opting to avoid running for office:

    1) Since the Reagan-era, it appears to me, that the vast majority of Americans have forgotten the "original" GOLDEN RULE. You know – that old-fashioned, world-wide concept (found in EVERY major religion on the planet) that says "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you"? Instead, both men and women have bought into the Reagan-era sick/twisted version of it that goes like this "She/He who make the (most) gold, makes the rules"!

    So, regardless of whether an American adult is female or male, too many have adopted the idea that there is only one way one can be "successful", in the USA – by becoming rich and powerful. WRONG, in MY book! For those who can't REALLY understand the meaning of the "original" GOLDEN RULE, I try to teach them to use the SILVER RULE, in its place.

    The SILVER RULE says this: "Don't do unto others, what you would not want done unto you"! In my experience, too many Americans, of EVERY socioeconomic background, haven't spent enough time studying the "original" GOLDEN RULE, nor are aware of the SILVER RULE. Thus, we get people who would never want to be waterboarded or sprayed with pepper spray, ordering it to be done unto others, or doing it themselves, regardless of their gender, or the passivity of the recipient. Both female and male major corporate owners are often just as ruthless and greedy, as many politicians, and leaders of large nonprofit groups. Nearly all seem consumed by the craving for endless "Fame and Fortune"!

    2) Since the Reagan-era, too many Americans have become confused as to exactly what the "original" American Dream has always been, since THEY are not EVER FORCED to recite the Pledge of Allegiance (you know – that controversial statement we require CHILDREN to recite, by NEVER require ADULTS to do – unless they are public school teachers and/or new citizens)?!?!?! The "original" American Dream can be easily located at the end of that pledge..."liberty and justice for ALL".

    For those fortunate enough to live or travel to New York City, they can see further evidence of the "original" American Dream, by reading it on the Statue of Liberty. There it says:

    "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

    Notice, it DOES NOT contain the phrase "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be RICH and FAMOUS", for good reasons! The "original" American Dream was the "yearning to be FREE" – not enslaved by anyone – whether in the government OR in the workplace!

    So, from my perspective, until the majority of Americans decide to return to following the "original" GOLDEN RULE AND "rediscover" what the "original" American Dream was and continues to BE, the definition of a "successful American", will continue to elude both the female AND the male members of our society. Simultaneously, women will avoid getting into the (too often) war-like atmosphere of politics and the USA will continue in turmoil! It all makes perfect sense to me, but I'm one of those "weird" people, who doesn't define success by how much money or possessions I have!

    December 15, 2011 at 5:27 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ovaless

      What was that perspective, again?

      December 15, 2011 at 9:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • mickey1313

      As a note, the statue of liberity is French, not american. The original is in frot of the Ifle tower

      December 15, 2011 at 9:59 pm | Report abuse |
      • Janiece Staton

        The Statue of Liberty was MADE by the French and given to the American people, in Solidarity for their common histories of democratic revolutions. The Americans had to build the base of the Statue of Liberty, while the French donated the actual Statue itself. I'd encourage EVERYONE here, to study up on this subject more, via their local library and/or the Internet.

        December 16, 2011 at 4:52 am | Report abuse |
    • GinaLove

      I'm going to assume you got lost in thought somewhere in writing this essay; and this is not to say that you did not perhaps make a valid point or two along the way; but what I am saying is that you spent way, way too much time on this. Just way too much....

      December 15, 2011 at 10:18 pm | Report abuse |
      • Janiece Staton

        From YOUR perspective, I spent too much time on this topic, but it reflects DECADES of thought and reflection on this topic. That's what happens when one spends DECADES observing the world and asking persistent "Why" questions.

        December 16, 2011 at 5:03 am | Report abuse |
    • Whoopitydoo2

      Give me your tired, your poor, etc...??? Did you know that a French woman, who had never been to America wrote that and it was added at a later date to the statue? Did you know that to be "free", it means that you can seek to be rich if you'd like? Did you know that the "original" American dream wasn't defined by a liberal for everyone else to follow? Did you know these things? Go back to your Occupy tent and get high or something. Socialism, no matter how you mask it, will not fully stand in my country!

      December 16, 2011 at 1:09 am | Report abuse |
      • Janiece Staton

        Sorry! I've never smoked so much as a cigarette in my life, let alone illicit drugs! You're clearly stereotyping me here, without knowing anything at all about me. That kind of prejudice is what is ripping this country apart. Your ignorance of me, my lifestyle, my history, and everything else are based on your own history and have NOTHING to do with me.

        I am VERY aware of what freedom means. Freedom is a concept that is ALWAYS accompanied by two, perpetual companions – CHOICE and RESPONSIBILITY. For every freedom we want or have, there are choices and responsibilities attached, and vice versa.

        This isn't just YOUR country! It's OUR country – all 350,000,000+ of us. You're allowed your perspective, just as I am allowed mine. I'm not going ANYWHERE, not at your demand, nor because I will abandon my country. I'm as patriotic an American as it comes and I've demonstrated that every step of the way, throughout my adulthood.

        December 16, 2011 at 5:12 am | Report abuse |
    • Dirk

      Really... that came about in the Reagan era? Lol...

      December 16, 2011 at 1:31 am | Report abuse |
  99. Marcelino

    I hope for the day that we have a Female President, not that it will do much being that the Republipukes will block every piece of Legislation She tries to pass because of her gender. My other thought, I look forward to the day that the Dream Act Passes.

    December 15, 2011 at 5:15 pm | Report abuse |
    • Presto001

      Um..What? This is one of the most ignorant statements Ive seen on this topic.

      December 15, 2011 at 10:04 pm | Report abuse |
    • Frank

      Well, if she has the kind of ideas the dems had over the last three years, let's hope so. I sure wish the dems had block a lot of the stuff the reps did in the 8 years prior like the Iraq War Resolution God, how things would have been different if they had the courage to say no. How many lives could have been spared?

      December 15, 2011 at 10:05 pm | Report abuse |
    • mike

      How about a conservative female candidate (not Palin, she even fails as a mother)? I would vote for one any time. As to Dream Act, why should we open our borders?

      December 15, 2011 at 10:34 pm | Report abuse |
      • Margaret

        Because some of those immigrants are going to be inventing great things, becoming great surgeons, while we are cheering the American kids on while they get concussion after concussion. If they don't come here and create all those things, they will go elsewhere, and people will say wow what a great country that is with all those creative people.

        December 15, 2011 at 10:57 pm | Report abuse |
      • logic

        Margret, since you seem to think that playing sports and getting concussions will keep people from being creative, I would point out the study done recently that stated that concussions were irrelevant to brain damage from repeated hits in the head, and that most immigrants play a sport the rest of the world loves and calls football (soccer to us ignorant Yanks), in which it is not uncommon to take thousands to tens of thousands of hits to the head while practicing on a given month, meaning the potential for brain damage is MUCH higher for them.

        or we can just say that it hasn't appeared to cause much of an issue in the centuries we have played sports and that the human body seems to have evolved for it in ways we don't know right now.

        Or maybe leave the whole irrelevant argument out, since the dream act, as dumb of an idea as it is in my opinion, is not the topic here. What is the topic is women in politics, specifically presidential hopefuls. Personally I was hoping Rice would give it a shot, but I guess she had enough of being ripped apart by the opposing party while she was working her old political jobs.

        December 16, 2011 at 12:47 am | Report abuse |
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