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LGB & T: The big surprise
From left to right: ESPN writer and CNN contributor LZ Granderson, activist and author Donna Rose, HLN anchor Jane Velez-Mitchell, deputy executive director of the Gay & Lesbian Victory Fund Robin Brand, and olympic figure skater Johnny Weir
January 3rd, 2012
08:00 AM ET

LGB & T: The big surprise

By Michael Schulder, CNN

I met a fascinating guy at a recent gathering here in Atlanta. He was telling someone how well his son was doing in college.

What made his story interesting was this: His son used to be his daughter.

His daughter shared the fact that she felt attracted to other girls at the very young age of 8, he said. Over time, it became clear she was a lesbian. Her father accepted her sexuality.

Then came his second challenge. His daughter wasn't a lesbian after all. His daughter was his son. She was convinced of it - convinced she was different in a way that no vocabulary quite exists to describe.  Her father accepted that, after a long process of counseling.

Now the girl he raised, his transgender son, is at college, studying psychology.

And he is a proud father.

That was my introduction to the CNN Dialogue Series on the LGBT community, co-hosted with Emory University's James Weldon Johnson Institute, and it came before the panelists even took the stage.

The evening would get even more interesting.

Coming way out

The panel's moderator was HLN anchor Jane Velez-Mitchell. I hadn't read her book. I didn't know she was a lesbian.  She was a married alcoholic who finally confronted her alcoholism and her sexuality 16 years ago. "Once I came out, I came way out," she says.

From her 12-step alcoholic recovery program she learned something that’s relevant to everyone: "You’re only as sick as your secrets."

As I listened, I took notes on my iPad. I tried to type the word transgender. The iPad spell-check kept steering me to the word transgenic. I had to look that up. It means a genetically modified plant. Lesbian, gay and bisexual were not spell-corrected. Only transgender.

Which pretty much captures why a gathering of the LGBT community can feel like LGB - and T, too.

Still fighting for the T

Panelist Donna Rose is the mother of a 26-year-old son. She used to be her son's father. "When I was growing up," she says, "I didn’t even know words to apply for what I felt."

Donna is an information technology project manager. And she now consults with corporations to prevent workplace discrimination against transgender employees.

When I called her after the conference, she made it clear that the vocabulary still doesn’t exist to describe transgender. In fact, she prefers the umbrella term "trans people" because there are fierce debates within this community about who is trans and who is not.

What is not disputed is that they have a long way to go to achieve the level of acceptance that the gay and lesbian communities have achieved.

"We haven’t had our moment," says Donna.

And, she adds, referring to the T in LGBT, "I'm very sensitive to being left out of the party."

"Dukes of Hazzard"

CNN columnist LZ Granderson told the audience when he was growing up he never missed an episode of "The Dukes of Hazzard."

"How silly," he thought, "for a black man to be rooting for a Confederate flag." But sexuality trumped politics for LZ. "I was into Luke Duke. I thought Luke Duke was hot."

Ever since, he says, he seems to choose boyfriends who look like Luke Duke. "Guy I’m dating now: Luke Duke."

Granderson married a woman he describes as gorgeous. "Fine" is the way Granderson puts it. "Beyonce-fine." They have a son together. It took Granderson time to accept that he was not meant to be married to a woman.

One critical moment was when a magazine cover featured a gay African-American basketball player. Until then, he says, "I thought I was the only gay black guy playing basketball."

Integration: It's who you know

Robin Brand of the Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund, which uses its resources to get more members of the LGBT community elected to political office, gave us
something to remember about the connection between openness and acceptance.

She points out that every state that has any type of relationship recognition law, whether it involves domestic partners, or civil unions, or same-sex marriage, has first had an openly LGBT member in the state legislature.

Brand also points to polls which suggest people who know someone who is openly gay are more likely to be supportive of their rights. Robin Brand is certain: Openness begets integration begets acceptance.

Thick ice

The greatest insight for me as a parent came from the champion athlete on the panel.

Johnny Weir is a 27-year-old figure skater from a small town in Pennsylvania,– a three-time U.S. national champion.

His appearance was flamboyant– - oh, nix that word. Weir has a better way to express that characteristic. In his words: He is a man who loves to wear "fabulous costumes." (On this particular evening he was dressed in form-fitting black pants and black patent leather shoes with no socks.  And, by the way, he likes the Pope's shoes.)

Weir's style has always raised questions about his sexuality among others, including a couple of Canadian sports commentators who once said skating officials should give him a gender test. "I had to kind of defend the fact that I had a penis," said Weir. "It was definitely hurtful on a personal level, because I love my penis."

As a kid in school, "I would always run to my next class. Never walk. I was scared who would mess with me."

But that never clouded his outlook on life. Which is where the parenting lesson came in.

From the time he was born - "I came out of my mother wearing a rainbow," he says.– "I have only known love and acceptance" from his family.

So many gay teens have not been able to handle the torment and the bullying despite having supportive parents. Developing resilience in a child is not entirely within a parent's control.  But Weir says that, for him, the family support made all the difference. As he puts it:  "I've always lived in a love bubble."

Another surprise

Most of us thought Johnny Weir was the only champion athlete on the panel.

But when I called 52-year-old Donna Rose for a follow-up interview, she was at the gym.

And she wasn’t there for her health.

"I'm training for the Olympics," she told me.

The sport?  Freestyle wrestling.

When Donna was a young man, back in high school, she was a wrestler. After a 30-year hiatus, she got back into the sport. She beat enough women half her age to place sixth in the last U.S. nationals.

As for the obvious questions - the International Olympic Committee has specific criteria for someone like Donna to qualify as a female athlete. She has met those guidelines. She has had the necessary surgeries. And she has been on hormone therapy for two years.  She's a woman. And she’s determined to pin the competition.

Call it the LGBT community.

But like the rest of us, no matter what community we're in, each person has his or her own surprises.

Posted by
Filed under: Gender • How we live • How we look • Relationships • Sexual orientation • Who we are
soundoff (321 Responses)
  1. edna turnblad

    I am a fifteen year old person (gender-neutral) who loves men. Some days I am a boy, others a girl. This article speaks to me because of the personal connection. And, let the record show, that i go to church EVERY Sunday and 8days for Holy Week and I don't think but KNOW that God loves me. if my mormon aunt can accept that, you should be able to as well

    January 10, 2012 at 9:53 pm | Report abuse |
  2. tom

    do we need gays and lesbain ( not really) becuase we woulldnt be able to reproduce (with out surgury) and keep the human race going with out dieing out

    January 6, 2012 at 8:37 am | Report abuse |
    • pinkiepi

      Bigot.

      January 6, 2012 at 2:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • Mark Ramsey MD

      I think I just need to stop hoping that one of these CNN threads can be an intelligent, respectful conversation. Can't you guys just pretend that you're talking face to face with someone? You wouldn't speak to someone that way, would you? Tom, you replied to my message by saying that we don't "need" gays and lesbians. With a world population of 7 billion, couples who decide to not have children (gay or straight) are doing us all a favor. But that isn't the point at all. We are all here, sharing the same time and space. My life is happier when I have love in my heart. So I choose to love and respect you. I wish tolerance and peace of mind for you.

      January 6, 2012 at 10:31 pm | Report abuse |
      • tom

        im sorry im not trying to bug u but i have a quick question..... are you christian... becuase the bible says no man shall lay with another man and the same with women

        January 9, 2012 at 8:34 am | Report abuse |
      • mickey1313

        lol that is funny stuff there. You do know that the bible says quite clear that the old test is real and needs to be followed. Thus the parts of the old test that are anti gay, and to be taken as truth by the christians. Those who cherry pick the bible are stupid hypocrites.

        January 12, 2012 at 12:28 am | Report abuse |
    • people are crazy

      It doesn't matter. Not everyone is LGBT. Not everyone needs to reproduce. In fact, it's probably better for population control if some people don't.

      January 13, 2012 at 10:59 pm | Report abuse |
  3. sockpuppet

    I was fine with everything in the article until the end, when we learn a former man is completing in the olymipics against women. YEAH, he whupped all those girls half his age–what do you think would be the reason why?? I don't care what surgeries you have or how many hormones you take, men and women are physically quite different and there is a LIFETIME of learned muscle behavior that would put the man at an incredible advantage over the women. Any way you slice it, the new lady should be wrestling either against men, or other transgendered individuals. This is physically unfair and defeats the purpose of fighting for equality.

    January 5, 2012 at 6:05 pm | Report abuse |
    • pinkiepi

      She is a woman and hence should compete against other women. She isn't a man, so it makes no sense for her to compete against men.

      January 6, 2012 at 2:43 pm | Report abuse |
    • mickey1313

      um agreed, to you detractors that say it is fine for a trans man to compeate with women, HE IS NOT A WOMAN< HE IS A CONFUSED MAN. He has male genes, thus he is male, male or female is not a "state of mind" or a choice, IT IS GENETIC. And any trans who wishs to compeate against there new gender not there true gender is a hoaxer and wants special treatment not equal treatment.

      January 12, 2012 at 12:32 am | Report abuse |
  4. pinkiepi

    The hatred displayed here by some fundamentalists is appalling. How others choose to live their lives is none of your business. Love everyone; don't hate.

    January 5, 2012 at 2:45 pm | Report abuse |
  5. Calpurnia

    Freak show is right.

    January 5, 2012 at 10:54 am | Report abuse |
  6. Trololol

    This isn't America... this is the interweb. Idiot.

    January 4, 2012 at 3:25 pm | Report abuse |
  7. callista mccaig

    The story is like looking in the mirror for the neart death situation, ,this enlightened country requires.
    Do no harm,
    Callista

    January 4, 2012 at 1:06 pm | Report abuse |
  8. PB

    Atttention all you "God Loving Peoplel".......It is through acceptance and love of others you will receive God's grace....not through hate and ignorance.

    January 4, 2012 at 9:45 am | Report abuse |
  9. BioHrzd420

    What I completely realize this is not the point of the article, as a scientist I must correct a huge misconception by the journalist. A transgenic is not just a genetically altered plant. A transgenic is ANY plant or animal that expresses a foreign gene (i.e. not one of its own). Mice that express GFP are transgenic too.

    January 4, 2012 at 9:17 am | Report abuse |
  10. Ken

    What I find amazing is the amount of commentary, both supportive and not, that this fluff article has generated. The point, based on the headline, is buried in the third paragraph and can be summed up with this: transgendered people are still not accepted in the gay and lesbian community. This isn't news. The point is never directly stated and is not devloped beyond a few anecdotes. Not particularly good journalism in my opinion.

    January 4, 2012 at 9:00 am | Report abuse |
    • Mystic American

      The reason the article is not great journalism is because it is an editorial or column piece, not an investigative report.

      January 4, 2012 at 9:05 am | Report abuse |
      • Ken

        True, but even for an editorial it is muddled.

        January 4, 2012 at 9:07 am | Report abuse |
    • Mark Ramsey MD

      Ken,
      it's refreshing to find a thoughtful comment. I don't agree that the article is fluff, though. I think intolerance, disrespect, and hate are the most important things we could be talking about, Get rid of those 3 things, and a lot of our problems are solved.

      January 6, 2012 at 10:47 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ken

        I agree, intolerance and a general tendancy to make snap judgments based on a label is a huge problem in our society. My point was more on the execution of the article than the content.

        January 7, 2012 at 9:09 am | Report abuse |
  11. That is it!!

    Now I get it, when I failed to make the Olympic cycling team many years ago, I should have been gender confused and gone in for a change! Then, i could "come-back" fours years later and beaten the snot out of the female cyclists. Connie Carpenter and Rebecca Twigg would have been miles behind.

    Now I understand why I want to support the LGBT community....

    January 4, 2012 at 8:22 am | Report abuse |
    • Clayton

      Actually... you were probably too slow... *cough*

      January 4, 2012 at 8:39 am | Report abuse |
    • Rick

      I can dig it. I was on the track team in high school and got myself in an exhibition 100 yard dash. There were 8 of us. I must have been pretty fast, it took 7 guys to beat me

      January 4, 2012 at 11:45 am | Report abuse |
    • Dolan

      To get a gender change, and win the gold, first, you're going to have to go through standard procedures, including an x-ray of the skull, as well as your pelvis, to determine the location of your special 'transgender brain'. Then they're gonna cut your weener off and stick it up your butt. -cough- You have no idea how hard it is to get this stuff done sometimes.

      January 4, 2012 at 3:30 pm | Report abuse |
  12. Chaiah

    Beautiful souls in that photograph.

    January 4, 2012 at 8:17 am | Report abuse |
  13. 1RingyDingy

    I thought that was a picture of next seasons Dancing With the Stars contestants.

    January 4, 2012 at 7:40 am | Report abuse |
    • willywalnuts

      Where's Serena Williams ?

      January 4, 2012 at 7:59 am | Report abuse |
  14. willywalnuts

    Where's Chaz?

    January 4, 2012 at 7:36 am | Report abuse |
  15. George Steele

    Mental illness...

    January 4, 2012 at 7:28 am | Report abuse |
    • Primewonk

      If being gay is a mental illness, it will have a DSM-4 code. It doesn't. Ergo, you are lying.

      January 4, 2012 at 1:52 pm | Report abuse |
      • Guest

        Hey wonk,,,,, you're pretty quick to run others down aren't you? How about you look up the term yourself.

        World English Dictionary

        mental illness — n
        any of various disorders in which a person's thoughts, emotions, or behaviour are so abnormal as to cause suffering to himself, herself, or other people .

        I bet this probably fits you if you're really honest with yourself.

        January 4, 2012 at 7:22 pm | Report abuse |
      • mickey1313

        medicine is not science. If it were there would be 1% of the ADHD cases as there is, because it is fake, and so is shift work disorder. Psychology is not medicine, it is philosphy, and should not be confused with science. Most of the psycholigest book of disorders is a toatal fabrication.

        January 12, 2012 at 12:39 am | Report abuse |
      • Mark Ramsey MD

        Yikes...I think the nod goes to the guy who can spell...

        January 17, 2012 at 2:12 am | Report abuse |
  16. just one thing

    There are proper places to exchange bodily fluids and what I see here is a failure to follow simple directions.

    January 4, 2012 at 7:27 am | Report abuse |
  17. orlando smith

    A man or woman will do that which "is right in their own eyes." "LBGT'S" will do what they may "feel" is right. So be it, just leave God out of it . His thoughts are not our thoughts , nor are his ways our ways. It is interesting how those who don't believe there is a God, so readily propose "what if's" about God that supports some notion of man's that has to do with fulfilling a desire that God's WORD clearly speaks against. Stories of parents who have "accepted" a son or daughter's unGodly choices does not change God's mind.

    January 4, 2012 at 7:22 am | Report abuse |
    • Chris R

      And you feel you are qualified to know God's mind? Are you so arrogant to think that you really comprehend what God wants from us? Look, the only person I know of who knew God's mind and God's plan was Jesus. He tried to communicate that to us as best He could and do you know what he said? Love the Lord God with all of your heart and soul and treat others as you yourself would want to be treated. read what you said and tell me if it reflects God's will.

      January 4, 2012 at 9:35 am | Report abuse |
    • Rick

      Orlando; How is it that you feel qualified to claim you know the mind of god?

      January 4, 2012 at 12:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • Straight Sailor

      Orlando, you sound a lot like the bigots in the south when it came to interracial marriage just a few decades ago. When I was a boy in the 70's in backwoods Virginia, there was an elderly black man who moved into my family's county. Up to then, it was 100% Scotch/Irish/German White (with some Native American thrown in for flavor). He was found along the side of the road with two shotgun blasts to the back, which the Sheriff labeled as "Suicide". Now, three decades later, there are multiple black and interracial couples living in and raising their children in safety. Thirty years ago, long after MLK's "I have a Dream", my Grandfather used the Bible as grounds of why all "Non-Whites" were inferior and Interracial marriage was a blasphemy to God. Now that I'm older, I can read and make my own unbiased opinions, I am glad to say I see nothing in the Bible saying that "Non-Whites" are inferior, and friends of mine in Interracial Marriages got married in Church, with no Hell-Fire and Brimstone. As has been said before, God said and did much in the Old Testament which Jesus later said was much less important than Love. Love God, Love your Neighbor, Love your Mother and Father, Love your Children, Love Yourself. Don't quote Old Testament scripture while your eating a pound and a half of BBQ Pork Ribs, you'll smell Brimstone. I Love my Uncle. The fact that he is gay and has a boyfriend is a facet of him, not the whole of him, just like my wife and children are a facet of me, not the whole me. Don't peek in my windows while I'm in bed with my wife and I won't peak in your windows while you are in bed with your girlfriend / boyfriend. You can't profess to Love Jesus and Hate your Neighbor. Then His message has been lost on your hardened heart.

      January 4, 2012 at 2:41 pm | Report abuse |
    • Unbelievable

      So, what are you saying: God speaks to you, thru you, what exactly? Because I'm sure there are a lot of people that would love to flock to you and listen to you distort, a book that is basically and collection of unconfirmed, hand-me down stories mostly directed and dictated by King James I of England (if you are into the King James Bible). And, so what if someone lives differently: does it change your beliefs, your daily routine, your bank account; exactly how does someone being LGBT disrupt your daily life so much that you are compelled to tell the world what is in "God's mind"? I'll never understand why people are so drawn to telling other people what they should believe, think, how to live, etc. Whatever and happened to Love thy Neighbor, to quote your beloved book?

      January 5, 2012 at 9:50 am | Report abuse |
  18. HWB

    All this is just sick.

    January 4, 2012 at 6:23 am | Report abuse |
  19. Chris

    For those who say that gays have no purpose... What if you considered that gays are "God's" (emphasis on the quotations) form of population control? Bring gay, I'm cool with that concept. For those who say gays are useless in the fact that they can't have children... Well that's when we come in to adopt all the kids that would otherwise be abused, neglected or aborted. You're welcome society. And lastly, to the more relevant topic... Transgender is such a new concept to me, and most people, that it's hard to understand and/or accept. I still have a hard time being comfortable around drag queens at the club. That being said, who am I to disagree with anyone else' lifestyle (chosen or otherwise)? Once the majorities and the minorities accept each other and their differences and move the f**k on, we're never going to progress as a civilization. That goes for believers and non-believers, the rich and the poor, the "different" and the "normal", and lastly, the ignorant and the educated.

    January 4, 2012 at 5:07 am | Report abuse |
    • Chris

      Ugh, sorry: *Bring gay = Bring gay

      January 4, 2012 at 5:09 am | Report abuse |
    • Chris

      Ugh, sorry: *Bring gay = Being gay

      January 4, 2012 at 5:11 am | Report abuse |
  20. Mark Ramsey MD

    It took me 18 years to accept myself as gay, then many more years to accept others just as they are. I'm glad the gay community has specifically included transgendered persons in our community, and I like even better when we include "questioning", or LGBTQ. I look forward to the day when we will all feel included, and the only initial we will need is U- us.

    January 4, 2012 at 3:54 am | Report abuse |
    • Mary

      I love this, Mark!!!

      January 5, 2012 at 8:44 pm | Report abuse |
  21. gay ray

    GOD BLESS YOU I AM 60 TODAY & I AM STILL ONLY HAVE THAT CLOSET DOOD 1/4 OPEN... I HAVE BEEN MARRIED FOR 34

    YEARS & I'M STILL AFRAID TO COME OUT & TEAR THAT CLOSET DOOR OFF IT"S HINGES.... AND COME OUT TO MY FAMILY & THE WORLD... MY WIFE KNOWS & SHE & I KNOW WE MADE A MISTAKE... I NOW KNOW SOME OF MY BEST FRIENDS IN SCHOOL ARE OUT I AM SOO ENVIOUS OF THEM.... THEY HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE ANY MORE. I
    HATE LIVING A LIE BUT I LOVE MY WIFE BUT HATE MY LIFE.GOD BLESSYOU.... GAY RAY..... annomus please i am well known ...first name only please thank-you...

    January 4, 2012 at 2:16 am | Report abuse |
    • MumsToo

      Coming out is scary. You find out who your friends really are and you risk losing family and loved ones. But it's also freeing. It lifts a huge burden from you and allows you to truly experience life and to know happiness.

      January 4, 2012 at 8:23 am | Report abuse |
    • Chris R

      Don't be afraid. Be true to yourself. Some people who are incapable of real love may choose to cast you aside but I think you'll find out a couple of things to your surprise. First, many of the people who love you will still love you. Second, a lot of people won't be surprised at all.

      January 4, 2012 at 9:37 am | Report abuse |
  22. haalo

    My heart has always gone out to the transgenders community because it must feel like they don't fit in any one group well. I'm happy to see that the "T" "LGB" (LGBT) have found a community that they identify with. No one wants to feel isolated.

    January 4, 2012 at 1:54 am | Report abuse |
  23. Brandon Edwards

    As a 28 year old gay man who grew up in a religious/miitary household in germany with no gay influences, a butch father, nurturing mother, a sister and four brothers, being gay is a scary thing. No one wants to be gay. No one wants to hear their father talking about gays as if they were diseases; no one wants to hear their father threaten them with death if it's found that they're gay. No, being gay is not a choice-that is what the frightened, in-the-closet people want you to think. I knew since I was 5 that I was gay. And I prayed, and prayed, and hated myself, and prayed.....but you know what. Someone told me, a guy friend of mine, that there was nothing wrong with me and that I was who I was. If you've never known what it's like being gay then at least start with that. Admit that you don't understand and move from there-hating only makes you look, well, gay as well. I grew a thick skin too, growing up, and to this day I am proud and I am a great person with a promising career. The people on this board who take time to read stories about the LGBT community and STILL take time to post hate, should really dig deep inside and ask yourselves why you came here to post your hate? You people need to look inside and wonder what it is that you hate about yourselves so much that would cause you to be so vile. Oh and you best believe, God LOVES ME THROUGH AND THROUGH. Im bless every single day. Dear hateful Christians, Your hate has blinded you and led you astray from the teaching of God.

    January 4, 2012 at 12:37 am | Report abuse |
    • MG

      Delusional!!!!

      January 4, 2012 at 12:55 am | Report abuse |
      • Michael K

        Brandon's story is very similar to mine and many of my friends. The one that is delusional and sick, MG, is you.

        January 4, 2012 at 1:15 am | Report abuse |
      • EndTheHate

        "Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things" (Romans 2:1)

        January 4, 2012 at 1:23 am | Report abuse |
      • bipartisan77

        Why can't you offer anything other than one word insults? Your ignorance and lack of education are shining through by the post. The LGBT community has courage, strength, dignity, and resolve. You, on the other hand, should have never been born and offer nothing other than the type of blind hate that continues to hold society back.

        January 4, 2012 at 1:27 am | Report abuse |
  24. John

    We now have a new sandwich with lettuce,guacamole,bacon and turkey.It's called the LGB&T for short.

    January 4, 2012 at 12:33 am | Report abuse |
    • MumsToo

      Sounds delicious! I'll take two, but please make them the same!

      January 4, 2012 at 8:27 am | Report abuse |
  25. Anto

    All i have to say is no matter if you are gay or straight you will still have to fight for your rights. But it just seems like the gay community is getting hit the most because its not like it is happening in the united states. There are gays all over. All we want is rights which "normal" people get. Because i dont think its fair if a drug addict can half all their rights while a perfectly normal gay couple cant even get married.

    January 3, 2012 at 11:59 pm | Report abuse |
    • MG

      Wrong, not normal!!

      January 4, 2012 at 12:57 am | Report abuse |
      • bipartisan77

        Oh please, just go to bed whoever you are. Your blatant disregard for facts and proper grammar have rendered you and your bigotry irrelevant. Get an education, grow up, and stop hating other people for natural things they cannot control. It is clear you are a deeply misinformed individual with little education or critical thinking skills. With all due respect, you are a detriment to our society and you have done nothing but hurt others with your drivel regarding situations you are clueless about. Such an embarrassment to our great country. God bless the LGBT community and for all those who seek equality. To those who preach inequality and hate, on the other hand: shame on you.

        January 4, 2012 at 1:23 am | Report abuse |
      • Al

        MG... I beg to be with you when one of your children, grandchildren, other relative come to you and say, ",,, Daddy, I'm gay!"

        January 4, 2012 at 10:05 am | Report abuse |
  26. Hagatha

    Do you remember Ms. Cleo's Psychic Network? I could have spent at least 10cents on a reading and personal advisor.

    January 3, 2012 at 11:50 pm | Report abuse |
  27. MG

    Very Disturbing!!!!!!

    January 3, 2012 at 11:39 pm | Report abuse |
    • EndTheHate

      I agree they should seek psychiatric care.

      There is no room in America for clueless bigots.

      January 3, 2012 at 11:43 pm | Report abuse |
      • MG

        Yep, just the kind of response I expected. Sounds like anything goes no matter how discusting or perverse it is.

        January 3, 2012 at 11:49 pm | Report abuse |
      • EndTheHate

        MG
        Sorry if I was not clear. I am disgusted by the perversion of hate, intolerance and bigotry.

        January 4, 2012 at 12:05 am | Report abuse |
    • bipartisan77

      The only thing disturbing, MG, is your lack of education/understanding and the fact that your grammar and syntax are painfully flawed, much like your mental capacity, I would assume.

      January 4, 2012 at 1:30 am | Report abuse |
  28. Ria dia rea

    If I may quote from that famous movie "Porkys" .....
    "So sayeth the shepherd.....so sayeth the flock."
    If thineth sayeth then thine they shant.

    January 3, 2012 at 11:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • Hagatha

      Yes. I live by that saying each and every day. You are 100% correct....
      Thine be.

      January 3, 2012 at 11:44 pm | Report abuse |
  29. anonymous

    You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

    January 3, 2012 at 11:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • Butch Tina and Brunhilda

      I hope some day you'll join us.......
      and the world will live as one.....

      thank you John Lennon....

      January 3, 2012 at 11:39 pm | Report abuse |
  30. EndTheHate

    To all of the "Christians" that pass judgment on others maybe your time would be more wisely spent reading all of the Bible not just the parts that fit your hate filled bigoted world veiw. May I recommend you start with this:

    "Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things" (Romans 2:1)

    ps I'll pray for you.

    January 3, 2012 at 11:28 pm | Report abuse |
    • Aunt Jemima

      Have some flapjacks with that comment. It will make you feel better.

      January 3, 2012 at 11:31 pm | Report abuse |
      • EndTheHate

        I'll pray for you.

        January 3, 2012 at 11:35 pm | Report abuse |
  31. Butch Tina and Brunhilda

    As welders and pipefitters, we can appreciate the delicate and fragile essence and the fragrance of a freshly trimmed bush that was just rained upon.

    January 3, 2012 at 11:18 pm | Report abuse |
    • Hagatha

      Yes.

      January 3, 2012 at 11:25 pm | Report abuse |
    • Old So SO

      Pipe fitters and freshly trimmed bushes--LOL

      January 3, 2012 at 11:27 pm | Report abuse |
      • Butch Tina and Brunhilda

        Thank you. At least someone on here got it....

        January 3, 2012 at 11:37 pm | Report abuse |
  32. jemima

    Have some flapjacks with that creamy syrup. that'l make ya feel better.

    January 3, 2012 at 11:14 pm | Report abuse |
  33. AZwildcat

    I don't have a problem with or see a problem with LGBT identified people. It has NO adverse effect on my life. People are going to live life they way they want to, and you know what, so am I.

    January 3, 2012 at 11:04 pm | Report abuse |
  34. kells

    being Gay is a biological disorder, there is nothing that can justify two grown up men kissing and eating each others ass,

    January 3, 2012 at 10:23 pm | Report abuse |
    • LOVINtheASS

      Don't knock a hairy butthole til you've tried it

      January 3, 2012 at 10:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • Gizzy

      Given that a lot of thought, I see...

      Do people like you even realize how much you reveal about your own pathology with comments like that? It doesn't even touch the people you loathe so much... all it does is speak volumes about how much is wrong inside your own head.

      January 3, 2012 at 10:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ben

      Actually, as a physician, I should correct you that it is not a "disorder." Your ignorance and bigotry just means that you are either a delusional christian or a failure of the public educational system.

      January 3, 2012 at 11:00 pm | Report abuse |
      • Rod K

        ... or both

        January 4, 2012 at 9:50 am | Report abuse |
      • Guest

        Ben, since you're such a smart a s s , maybe you should look up the word yourself. Here, I'll help you:

        World English Dictionary, disorder (dɪsˈɔːdə) — n
        1. a lack of order; disarray; confusion
        2. a disturbance of public order or peace
        3. an upset of health; ailment
        4. a deviation from the normal system or order

        Sounds like it is pretty descriptive doesn't it?

        January 4, 2012 at 7:15 pm | Report abuse |
  35. Mississippi Man

    I just read in other news here on SinNN, that a Black lady was fired for "discriminating(???!)" against a transgendered man desiring to use the Lady's dressing room. We Straight Americans are going to have to draw the line somewhere. There has to be a point where we say enough is enough. I reckon if Macy's is willing to fire a Black person(read a protected minority) in order to please a false minority like a she/he whack-job, I suppose they would mess with anybody.

    January 3, 2012 at 10:04 pm | Report abuse |
  36. Kharg

    I don't know....I'm fully surrounded by gay people every day because of my employment. It doesn't seem like they want equality at all....Is seems like they want superiority, dominance, and almost revenge against the straight population . They want to be treated special because of their life choices, or experiences. If they didn't, why would they develop separatist ideal groups like GLBT ??? Gays arent being " picked on " more than anyone else in this country !!! They use exclusive networking to exclude the straight population, and then expect special treatment when they do get bullied.

    January 3, 2012 at 9:15 pm | Report abuse |
    • Dr. Sikes

      Gay and lesbian people can still be fired from their jobs in half the states in this country for something that isn't even illegal–the US Supreme Court overturned all sodomy laws more than a decade ago. Before you say that gay people "aren't picked on more than anybody else, you should take a look at the law. Being fired for private, consensual, LEGAL conduct sounds like being "picked on" to me.

      January 3, 2012 at 9:39 pm | Report abuse |
    • Mac

      From your comment I doubt very seriously if you're "surrounded by gays every day". Any one who makes the comment that they want superiorty is delusional. Gays just want their rights. They want to be able to marry the one they love and get the same benefits as any married couple. They want to be able to work at a job without fear of being terminated if they're found out. So your sernario is garbage. Sorry, but it sounds like something a wacko republican would say.

      January 3, 2012 at 10:00 pm | Report abuse |
      • Mississippi Man

        NUTs....I guess that is still the right word? Not sure anymore. In this Whack-job world, the lady may actually turn out to be be a Deeewwd.

        January 3, 2012 at 10:08 pm | Report abuse |
    • Amused Reader

      Hahaha... That is just about the silliest comment I've read, and I'm sure it was made in jest! Thank you for the laugh!

      January 3, 2012 at 10:06 pm | Report abuse |
  37. lefty avenger

    Republicans are the party of haters.

    January 3, 2012 at 8:29 pm | Report abuse |
    • RabiaDiluvio

      Yeah that MLK was such a bstard. The Democrats in that killed the Civil Righs Act of 1857 and tried to block the Civil Rights Act of 1964=total saints. The Democrats who enacted and then bolstered the Jim Crow laws are saints too. Nevermind that Republicans are responsible for EVERY major advance in Civil Rights in the past 300 years...the Democrats have PERFECTED the art of pandering to (and making unfulfillable promises to) special interest groups since the days of LBJ so they are the epitome of looooove.

      Sarcasm aside, dude...I am not even a Republican but I know the smell of BS. Why don't you?

      January 3, 2012 at 9:58 pm | Report abuse |
      • Mac

        Actually the Southern Democrats did everything they could to stop that bill. And once it was passed, they quit the Democratic Party and joined the Republicans. That's why the republican party today is so anti black and anti gay.

        January 3, 2012 at 10:02 pm | Report abuse |
  38. Michael

    Freaks of nature...nothing more.

    January 3, 2012 at 7:12 pm | Report abuse |
    • Samuel

      I pity your woefully inept and misguided views. And I pray you might one day learn to love people for who they are, not who you think they should be.

      January 3, 2012 at 7:17 pm | Report abuse |
      • Mensaboy

        Freaks of nature or birth defects? Certainly not normal. Aided and abetted my modern science.

        January 3, 2012 at 7:43 pm | Report abuse |
    • Magnus

      We have found ways to coddle and cater to some serious emotional disturbances that help the people feel a bit better. Probably that's a good thing.... I hope it is.

      But I don't think that people with these disorders should be held aloft as though their problems made them somehow heroic. Everyone faces problems.

      January 3, 2012 at 8:25 pm | Report abuse |
    • Tex Gritter

      "(G)ays are sooooo sweeeeet!", gushes CNN, and their on-board sissy-boy Mr.(?) Granderson......

      January 3, 2012 at 8:30 pm | Report abuse |
    • sameeker

      This is everybody's America. It belongs to the LGBT community as much as it does to me. Why can't we all get on the same team and see who the real enemy is – the elite who seek to control our lives.

      January 3, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Report abuse |
      • Guest

        That's what this article is about. People wanting to change teams. Is that how everyone ends up on the same team that you ask for?

        January 3, 2012 at 9:17 pm | Report abuse |
  39. Samuel

    I'm always saddened to see all the hate and bigotry people feel the need to express. It's very un-Christian, and un-American(while historically this is false, when it comes to values, hate is un-American). As far as I'm concerned, if you post hateful things about LGBT people when LGBT teens are dying from suicide, you have blood on your hands.

    January 3, 2012 at 7:04 pm | Report abuse |
    • crazyvermont

      Don't think this rises to the level of "having blood on your hands".More like, you can do whatever you want in life but you can't always choose the consequences of your actions.

      January 3, 2012 at 8:12 pm | Report abuse |
    • Guest

      Relax Sam. You're a bit of a drama queen aren't you?

      January 3, 2012 at 9:10 pm | Report abuse |
  40. Ladybird

    I am SO disappointed. All this time I didn't understand the controversy. I thought LGBT was my favorite sandwich. Lettuce, Gruyere, Bacon and Tomato.

    January 3, 2012 at 6:26 pm | Report abuse |
  41. POD

    Ok....Ok......enough.....we (SPOA....Straight People of America) get it.....Nothing More to See Here.....Move On Already

    January 3, 2012 at 6:24 pm | Report abuse |
    • Dr. Sikes

      There will be "nothing more to see" when I can't get fired from a job, evicted from a home, or risk getting beaten up on the street for something that is completely legal–the US Supreme Court overturned all sodomy laws years ago. Then I'll be happy to "move on."

      January 3, 2012 at 10:17 pm | Report abuse |
      • Old So SO

        If UR a real doctor, Colonel Sanders is my Uncle.

        January 3, 2012 at 11:31 pm | Report abuse |
      • Dr. Sikes

        To Old So so–

        PhD from the University of Minnesota, 2000. If you're related to Colonel Sanders, I guess that means you have too much "chicken" in you to actually discuss the issue–instead you just throw insults

        January 3, 2012 at 11:47 pm | Report abuse |
  42. guest

    Are you kidding me? This highlights the sad condition of our society. This is beyond ridiculous. And I'm sorry, the guy who became a woman, who now wants to compete in the Olympics as a women – ain't gonna happen. They have a hard enough time stopping cheating by monitoring the use of steriods, now they are going to have to verify what gender an athlete is? I can just see the olympic application form... question 1 Original Gender?, question 2 Current Gender?

    January 3, 2012 at 6:23 pm | Report abuse |
  43. Linda

    I knew by the time I was 3 year old that I was a girl. Being raised on a farm, it was also obvious to me the differences between boys and girls. Yet, I KNEW I wa a girl. It would take another 45 years before I finally became whole. I did counseling, praying with pastors and Christian friends, and years and years of denial trying to be "the man God made me." Finally, I had to decide, "Are my children better off with a 'female father' or a 'dead dad'?" All four of them are very glad they have their female father. If you haven't traveled this path you will never understand.

    January 3, 2012 at 5:51 pm | Report abuse |
    • Tex Gritter

      My Grandaddy used to say: "the Good Lord gets blamed with all kinds of stuff He did'n have uh durned thang tuh do with."

      January 3, 2012 at 8:36 pm | Report abuse |
      • Mac

        I'm sure he said that lot around the Republlican right winged bigots.

        January 3, 2012 at 10:05 pm | Report abuse |
      • Mississippi Man

        Mac, my Grandaddy said what he meant to ANYONE he wished to say it to....Oh, and just so you know-My Grand Pa was a Democrat back in the Good Old Days whem Democrats were Democrats and Men were Men.

        January 3, 2012 at 11:21 pm | Report abuse |
    • Old So SO

      Were you by chance raised on the Funny Farm?

      January 3, 2012 at 11:32 pm | Report abuse |
  44. Michael

    Every time that someone insists that these people were "born that way", a child molester smiles.

    And the victim who was molested and became confused about his or her gender gets victimized all over again.

    January 3, 2012 at 5:25 pm | Report abuse |
    • Robert Frost

      The majority of child molesters are heteros. Your point?

      January 3, 2012 at 5:41 pm | Report abuse |
    • V.

      so.. what you are saying is that everyone who is transgender was molested as a child? Honestly, that makes no sense.

      January 3, 2012 at 5:41 pm | Report abuse |
    • Linda

      Michael, you need to live by the saying "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." As it is, we all know without a doubt that you are a fool.

      January 3, 2012 at 5:53 pm | Report abuse |
    • dave

      Wow – you must be a Ron Paul supporter. No one else can come up with that kind of simple minded bigotry. You display an utterly sociopathic lack of compassion and understanding for anyone who isn't exactly like you.

      January 3, 2012 at 7:55 pm | Report abuse |
      • Guest

        dave,,, you say "You display an utterly sociopathic lack of compassion and understanding for anyone who isn't exactly like you.",,,, You're being a bit of a hypocrite. I've noticed your comments are merely attacks on anyone who you disagree with. You don't offer any opposing argument to support your position. Only snarky, snead comments about the person. It doesn't make you look too intelligent.

        January 3, 2012 at 9:27 pm | Report abuse |
    • Alfred

      I'm confused...if people are "born that way", how come gay propaganda in the 90s emphasized it was an "alternative lifestyle choice"? What's going on?

      January 3, 2012 at 8:24 pm | Report abuse |
      • Tex Gritter

        Alfred, I like this....it IS a valid point. I like what Micheal had to say.....I may just mname my next-born son Micheal Alfred or Alfred Michael. Not sure, yet. Thing is, such clear-headed thinkin' deserves a blue ribbon and a gold medal.

        January 3, 2012 at 8:41 pm | Report abuse |
      • JES

        Those were advertisements for selling condom and Miata convertables that you were looking at in the 90s....

        January 3, 2012 at 9:42 pm | Report abuse |
      • Mac

        Gay propaganda didn't call it an alturnative lifestyle, that is something made up by the right wings people. Just like everything else there is a time and a place. Since the 60's more and more have started getting fed up with theirs rights being trampled on. The "Ozzie and Harriet lifestyle" didn't fit the mold any more. More and more decided hiding in the closet and getting kicked on wasn't going to cut it. We actually got tired of the constant preaching to how wrong and how God condemns gays, when God didn't condemn gays, some fool writing thousands of years ago condemned gays. Along with Shellfish and Pork. But you people still eat that but it's suppose to be the same abomination.

        January 3, 2012 at 10:11 pm | Report abuse |
      • Amused Reader

        Alfred... The choice is to finally live life, and love who we actually feel love for. THAT's the choice. The alternative is to live a life of lies. Pretending happiness, pretending to be like those around you.

        Learn what alternative means...
        It means different. As humans we are all very different, and should be able to live as such without judgement. Especially judgement from those who are uneducated, unkind, and more than likely quite hypocritical as far as their one life choices.

        January 3, 2012 at 10:18 pm | Report abuse |
      • Straight Sailor

        The whole "Alternative Lifestyle Choice" wasn't the Gay Battle cry, it was the Oral Roberts/Pat Robertson battle cry to prove "they" could be "cured" with God's Love. It's taken almost 50 years for my favorite uncle growing up to finally admit to our backood hillbilly family that he is Gay, and now has a boyfriend. I don't know what makes me more sick, the fact he thought we wouldn't support him, or the fact that maybe twenty years ago we wouldn't have. Both he and his boyfriend are devout Christians, and fully believe, as their Pastor does, that they are as God made them... Perfect. I am personally against Gay Marriage. But I don't believe two teen-agers having a shot gun wedding at the JP should be called "Marriage", either. But if the Church, a Religious Body who follows God/Yahweh/Allah chooses to allow LGBT Marriage after the Civil Union takes place, then so be it. Civil Unions should apply to everyone who gets a Marriage Certificate. Change it from a Union to Marriage by the Church, NOT by Political pundits who only speak about issues that gets their pockets lined by their contributors. I personally would be honored to attend my Uncle Civil Union Ceremony, after all, he's still my favorite uncle. And if they as devout Christians could find a Pastor/Minister/Preacher who would perform a true "Holy Matrimony" ceremony, then I'd like to be his Best Man. There is NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM!!! We don't make out in front of them, they don't make out in front of us. But my kids understand that people are different, ALL people are different, and I want them continuing to grow up unbigoted, unblinded, unashamed of talking about visiting 'Uncle Jon" and "Uncle Pat" at their house.

        January 4, 2012 at 4:00 am | Report abuse |
      • Al

        For Tex Gritter... As I said above to another commenter; "... I beg to be with you when one of your children, grandchildren, or other relative come to you and say, 'Daddy, I'm gay' "

        January 4, 2012 at 10:24 am | Report abuse |
  45. C_is_for_chaos

    How many people have ever felt uncomfortable in their own skin? How many people have been afraid because their friends are all 'one' way and they are something completely different and the polar opposite of their friends? How many people can remember what it was like as a teen, all the hormones coming on and being off kilter but knowing deep down inside that they can't reveal their secret because they will be ridiculed, laughed at and hurt? Can anyone imagine how weird it must be for all your friends to drool over Johnny Depp but you flat out think the female lead is hotter than hades in the summer? I can, and I have. You see, I am a member of the LGB and T community – I'm not afraid to say that now but in high school I would never have admitted that I liked boys and I liked girls...for reasons in the comments I have read on this article where folks are saying it is wrong, I'm evil and I'm going to Hell. Well actually, I'm not because I also don't follow the Christian faith but that is another blog entirely!

    After reading all the comments I am left to wonder, if this subject bothers so many of those who are extremely prejudiced and detest the LGB and T community – why do you bother to read the articles? Is it because you need a soapbox on which to stand in order to witness? If so, I can think of many other arenas that could use your services rather than an anonmously comment written to enflame and rudely hurt someone. There are better ways to debate your ideas other than making rude, degratory comments – but then I suppose you don't come to these articles to debate because you would have to be open to learning something new, right?

    I am left with this thought, taught to me by my very Christian Grandmother "if you have nothing nice to say to someone it is always best to hold your tongue, lest you end up eating crap later on". I'm ok with someone wanting to pray for my eternal salvation, I'm ok with a good debate on the wrongs or rights of being how I am but I am completely against someone that has an open, mean spirited mouth and a closed, shallow minded person. No human is perfect, it is our imperfections that make us unique – and I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory than to fade away in obscurity.
    Peace be unto you ~

    January 3, 2012 at 5:18 pm | Report abuse |
    • IceT

      I believe that religious followers have a natural build up of anger that they cannot find an outlet for (for fear of losing brownie points with their Gods), so they vent it on the ideas that were put in the bible (by humans) ... perfect solution, vent AND brownie points for God to boot!!

      January 3, 2012 at 5:26 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ladybird

        Oh, for cryin' out loud. Most of the Christians I know -and I'm one of them- has no room for hate. "Love thy neighbor as thyself". This includes the LGBT neighbor. Classifying us as all bigots -or whatever- is as offensive as saying all gays/blacks/women/whatever are the same. It's demeaning and an easy out for haters.

        January 3, 2012 at 6:21 pm | Report abuse |
      • MumsToo

        @Ladybird – Members of my own family would agree with you about "Love thy neighbor as thyself." However, they've also quoted the "Love the sinner, not the sin." stuff to me. This is very insulting. The "sin" they do not love is a core part of who I am. No matter how I hide it, no matter who I pretend to be, or what lies I tell myself and others, it can't be changed. To put it another way, it would be like saying, "I love you Granddaughter, but I hate that you are female. I'll remind you every chance I get by telling you that I love you and then spouting off Bible verses about how inferior you are."

        January 4, 2012 at 8:53 am | Report abuse |
  46. Zeta Reticulan

    God(s) is(are) Alien(s) .. and couldn't care less if someone is LGBorT.

    January 3, 2012 at 5:16 pm | Report abuse |
  47. Mike

    If Gay/Lesbian behavior was "natural, then wouldn't Darwinism, i:e "natural selection" weed-out gay/lesbian behavior due to it's inability to reproduce on its own? Thus the need for "artificial" insemination for gays/lesbians to reproduce. Would this then not make Gay/lesbian behavior not natural, but parasitical in order to survive?

    January 3, 2012 at 5:12 pm | Report abuse |
    • IceT

      There are "guardian" ants that have no ability to reproduce .. but these communities still have them because they are necessary. Not understanding why things are the way they are doesn't mean it isn't natural.

      January 3, 2012 at 5:20 pm | Report abuse |
      • jojo

        haha.. those ants are there for a purpose in the survival of the community. What purpose can these LGBT people fulfill? They are absolutely not required for the human race to prosper. So either Darwinism fails or LGBT is just a notion and not a physical trait. You can only choose one.

        January 3, 2012 at 6:05 pm | Report abuse |
      • jojo's gay twin

        @jojo .. "you can only choose one." ... why? Was that supposed to be a big irrefutable point?!

        January 3, 2012 at 6:17 pm | Report abuse |
      • Mike

        Ice T: I am in agreement with you and others that use the insect and animal world to authenticate the base nature of G&L behavior.

        January 4, 2012 at 11:38 am | Report abuse |
    • t3chsupport

      Only if you don't understand natural selection and gene expression.

      January 3, 2012 at 6:00 pm | Report abuse |
      • jojo

        i dont think you have a clue about natural selection!! If it was natural selection, L or G wouldnt have existed. Have you heard of any other species having L or G traits?

        January 3, 2012 at 6:08 pm | Report abuse |
      • jojo's gay twin

        jojo, it appears you just made t3chsupport's point about not understanding .. well done my brother!

        January 3, 2012 at 6:21 pm | Report abuse |
      • Samuel

        @jojo Why yes. In fact, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_animals

        January 3, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Report abuse |
      • Alfred

        Wikipedia is a reputable source for gay animals? Geesh. No wonder this country is going down the tubes. Someone is dumb enough to write something and someone else is dumb enough to believe it. "Well, if its written on the internet, it must be true!"

        January 3, 2012 at 8:19 pm | Report abuse |
      • Mac

        This is in reply to Jojo. actually lately in the news there has been a report of two gay Penquins who have been looking to adopt a baby penquin. The park care people have tried to separate these two and place each one with a female, it didn't work. I guess untill it's proven in black and white that gays are born this way no one is going to believe it because they CHOOSE not to. I can remember going back to when I was little tyke I had a crush on guys. And for a period I tried to be straight and married the most wonderful woman in the world, but I wasn't straight and it wasn't a choice. Now we're the best of friends. And that friendship has been going on for almost 30 years.

        January 3, 2012 at 10:19 pm | Report abuse |
    • Steve

      Plenty of gay people have children because, for centuries, being gay wasn't acceptable. But that assumes it's genetic at all. We really don't know.

      January 3, 2012 at 6:01 pm | Report abuse |
    • RIck

      gays are not a separate species, brainiac.

      January 3, 2012 at 6:26 pm | Report abuse |
    • rapcon

      You are my hero. I could not have said it better. I could care less about anyone's gender confusion, but don't make this confusion some kind of national front. There are tremendous challenges in the world like starvation. Suggested reading for the LGBT community: Richard Dawkins "God's Utility Function"

      January 3, 2012 at 8:57 pm | Report abuse |
    • Mississippi Man

      @ jojo's gay twynne: I bet Joe Joe sur is proud of you.

      January 3, 2012 at 9:32 pm | Report abuse |
    • ZOB

      Fort her proof that GOD made GLBTs, not Darwin.

      January 5, 2012 at 7:40 pm | Report abuse |
      • ZOB

        *FURTHER*. Damn auto correct!

        January 5, 2012 at 7:42 pm | Report abuse |
  48. If horses had Gods ... their Gods would be horses

    Humans create Gods in there own image & those Gods just so happen to justify their fear & bigotry ... a sickening combination of self fulfilling prophecy and circular logic.

    January 3, 2012 at 5:11 pm | Report abuse |
  49. Scott

    Bible bangers should look up the story of David and Jonathan. Those who say they were just "friends" are being dishonest–"friends" don't undress together and kiss each other.

    January 3, 2012 at 5:08 pm | Report abuse |
    • Tex Gritter

      Scott--you be honest your own self. Or at least TRY to be honest. David and Jonathon were NORMAL friends who went into battle against the Philistines. Battle breeds strong (but NORMAL) friendships. The Scriptures say no such thing as they "un-dressed and kissed." Male kissing, for thousands of years, in the middle-east and elsewhere, is common-place as a greeting-nothing more. Reading David's eulogy of Jonathon has led to some confusion by people who have no understanding of Oriental (early Jewish) poetry. The dialogue found in Song of Solomon between Solomon and the Shunamite woman has had some similar confusion. However, I think some of this confusion may be wilful on the part of people seeking to pervert Scripture.

      January 3, 2012 at 8:55 pm | Report abuse |
      • Dom

        OMG, David and Jonathan were totally doing it!

        January 3, 2012 at 11:42 pm | Report abuse |
  50. Rufoscoe

    We enter 2012 embroiled in several conflicts and looking for more. The amount of carnage that we inflict on each other is obscene. Not a single religious post about the wrongness of war. Every piece I see on LGBT issues is loaded with the vitriol of fire and brimstone. Here are people not looking to kill and main, but looking for acceptance and understanding (some pretty good biblical tenets) being pelted with hateful religious rhetoric. Society is sick and the God society created looks just like us – small minded, petty, spiteful and ignorant.

    January 3, 2012 at 4:23 pm | Report abuse |
    • excitizen

      Could not agree with you more!!!!! Well said – thank you.

      January 3, 2012 at 4:39 pm | Report abuse |
    • Robert Frost

      True! Ironically Bible thumpers are filled with bile and hate. They reflect the image of the devil and do not understand compassion taught by Jesus

      January 3, 2012 at 5:37 pm | Report abuse |
      • chucks wagon

        Taking bits and pieces from God's word (the Bible) out of context and to suit ones needs is just as bad as committing known/obvious sin. Jesus was the ultimate example for us to live by. What example did He sat? It requires a lot of humility to be subject to the abuse Jesus went through yet He did not sin, sacrificed himself, and was example for us.

        January 3, 2012 at 8:10 pm | Report abuse |
      • Tex Gritter

        Mr. Frost, if you want an example set by my Lord, you might take the instance where Jesus said :"For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and shall cleave unto his wife, and they twain shall be one flesh." Jesus was quoting the Old Testament, but the meaning is rather obvious.....It is NORMAL for a man to "cleave" to his (female) wife...

        January 3, 2012 at 9:01 pm | Report abuse |
    • johnkeating

      I agree with you. They say that religious parents are more likely to use corporal punishment to 'correct' their children. Religion has often been used as an excuse for violence and torture, sometimes on a very large scale such as genocide, and forcible religious conversions. This is something the world needs a lot less of. Whether religion can be separated from the violence/torture, I don't know.

      January 3, 2012 at 11:25 pm | Report abuse |
  51. Conrad Shull

    Reminds me of the line, "I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body".

    January 3, 2012 at 3:59 pm | Report abuse |
  52. PB

    I am a proud mother of a 20yr transman. it's been about a year since he told me he wasn't gay, rather transgender.
    I cried and became medicated for a while...wondering if my child/family would ever be happy again. I'm writing to tell you YES....we are happy. It's not the freak show I was worried it would be. My daughter is now my son and although there are still some sad days...esp when I see the old pictures....it's ok. I still get name and pronoun confused at times but he is patient with me.......He is so much happier and it is reflected in his grades and social activities. As a parent i am sorry my child has to experience this......I have so much respect for him and I am proud of the person he has become. I am also so proud of my older son who from the start showed the upmost love and support for his sibling. l look forward to the day when transgender individuals are accepted more easily in society.

    January 3, 2012 at 3:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • Jake

      So happy for you PB! You are an inspiration!

      January 3, 2012 at 4:54 pm | Report abuse |
  53. the_dude

    Wow there are some sick people out there. YOu know they are really sick when instead of looking for help they look for people to tell them they are normal and ok. It's like a heroin addict surrounding themself with people that say heroin is good.

    January 3, 2012 at 3:07 pm | Report abuse |
    • Cathy

      You are the sick one.

      January 3, 2012 at 3:34 pm | Report abuse |
      • Bill the Cat

        Do you libs support abortion based solely on the fact that a fetus could be proven to be gay?

        January 3, 2012 at 3:38 pm | Report abuse |
      • Jake

        Agreed, Cathy. And Bill, that doesn't make any sense. Why would liberals support that?

        January 3, 2012 at 4:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • K

      It's not complicated...it's penis envy.

      January 3, 2012 at 3:50 pm | Report abuse |
  54. toby

    Doesn't matter what man's opinion is.God's word the Holy Bible will judge all men some day.The Bible is a blockade between your soul and hell,you cannot go very far in the path of sin without the Bible standing in your way ,it is the greatest hindrance to sin in the world ,you can never get rid of its words,,,men have tried and its still stands,it will haunt you untill you find peace with God

    January 3, 2012 at 2:56 pm | Report abuse |
    • Cathy

      There is no god. Feel free to believe in your fantasies, but your fantasies and mythical beliefs don't affect my choices in life.

      January 3, 2012 at 3:35 pm | Report abuse |
      • Bill the Cat

        There certainly is a God, and YOUR deranged fantasies of a godless existence need to be adjusted.

        January 3, 2012 at 3:39 pm | Report abuse |
    • Cathy

      Bill the cat – prove that there is a god. And, if there is a god, why didn't Tebow win, he's been praying SOOOOOOOO hard!!!!

      January 3, 2012 at 3:41 pm | Report abuse |
      • Bill the Cat

        Cathy, I don't need to prove anything to you. All creation speaks to His existence. There are several arguments for the existence of God, yet, I will not get into them with someone as immature as you. Tebow? Really??

        January 3, 2012 at 3:45 pm | Report abuse |
      • Cathy

        Bill the Cat, you're right, you don't have to prove anything to me – unless you want to create laws based upon your fantasy life.

        January 3, 2012 at 3:55 pm | Report abuse |
      • dave

        @Bill the Cat – post hoc ergo propter hoc. Look it up. God may exist in your narrow mind but not in everyone else's.

        January 3, 2012 at 8:01 pm | Report abuse |
      • Tex Gritter

        Cathy, was your original name Charlie, Bill or Carl? As for Dave, I think he must have a frawg in his throat...he just keeps goin' HOC....hoc....'round here, folks dont do that less'n they got a frog or a tortilla toad hung up in their goozle.... nah, dont tell me, I know Dave was jus' waxin' plumb ellerkwent with all th' Greek an' Latin.

        January 3, 2012 at 9:11 pm | Report abuse |
      • Brandon

        LOL at the T-bow comment! And what about when that little girl was bludgeoned then dismembered. Where was God? Oh, yeah, he was busy damning us gays while she died.

        January 4, 2012 at 12:51 am | Report abuse |
    • Damien Tobin

      Or peace with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

      January 3, 2012 at 4:22 pm | Report abuse |
    • Scott

      I thought Jesus was excepting of all types of people regardless. Let's also remember man wrote the Bible not God. Which means man is speaking for God which I always thought was blasphemy. So if you believe the Bible you are just believing what some close minded people think God said.

      January 3, 2012 at 4:22 pm | Report abuse |
    • procchi

      The God I worship loves us unconditionally. None of the people listed here ever hurt another human being or otherwise inflicted harm. Yet you call them "sinners." Who do you think you are?

      January 3, 2012 at 4:38 pm | Report abuse |
    • Brandon

      I feel so sorry for you. You sound lost and confused and willing to believe anything that's said to you. It's sad that you have such hate-for God hates the hater too.

      January 4, 2012 at 12:39 am | Report abuse |
  55. Robert Frost

    Abnormal? Aberrant? Ask God why he created them!

    January 3, 2012 at 2:40 pm | Report abuse |
    • Bill the Cat

      He created them to deny their sinful nature and turn to Him.

      January 3, 2012 at 3:40 pm | Report abuse |
      • Person

        "He created them to deny their sinful nature and turn to him." Really? Is God that cruel? Are we suddenly back in the time before Abraham when the gods played hurtful games with people?

        January 3, 2012 at 4:12 pm | Report abuse |
    • Cathy

      Your logic is so faulty. Rather than saying to yourself, "My god wouldn't create a person like this. So this person must be wrong" you should conclude that perhaps there is no god, or that the god is different than what you imagine.

      January 3, 2012 at 3:44 pm | Report abuse |
      • procchi

        Cathy, your response makes no sense. However, that is because you are the illogical one, a person holding an indefensible, judgmental position against your brothers and sisters.

        January 3, 2012 at 4:41 pm | Report abuse |
      • Mississippi Man

        You or me disagreeing with God or His Word will not make Him "go away." At least, you had better hope it dont. You will need His help and Grace someday.

        January 3, 2012 at 9:38 pm | Report abuse |
    • Church of Suicidal

      Blame straight people – they're the ones having all the gay children.

      January 3, 2012 at 4:15 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ha

        Ha... I'm lesbian... and that makes me giggle inside.

        January 3, 2012 at 4:42 pm | Report abuse |
      • Tex Gritter

        I reckon WE straight people ARE the ones having all the "gay" chillun.....one thing is for sure, you "gay" people sure AIN'T the ones haveing em'.

        January 3, 2012 at 9:15 pm | Report abuse |
      • Chris

        @ Tex: You're right, we're not having children. We're just adopting all the ones straight people choose to neglect, abuse or try and abort... You're welcome society.

        January 4, 2012 at 4:53 am | Report abuse |
  56. zorbitor

    Is insurance, public and private, going to cover the operations?

    January 3, 2012 at 2:37 pm | Report abuse |
    • Linda

      I paid entirely for my transition from male to female. Insurance didn't pay a cent.

      January 3, 2012 at 5:45 pm | Report abuse |
  57. Sad4Willis

    While the uninformed people are busy praying away my gay, I have always wanted to be over 6 feet tall, so could you also pray that I grow 2 inches taller? I can't wait to buy my first pair of tall, but boring, pants!!

    January 3, 2012 at 2:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • the_dude

      I am praying for your gayness to go away. God told me it is a long shot in your case though 😦

      January 3, 2012 at 3:09 pm | Report abuse |
    • Cathy

      The Magic 8 Ball says, "Try again later". I wouldn't hold your breath – Tebow lost, and he's been praying so hard....

      January 3, 2012 at 3:45 pm | Report abuse |
      • Tex Gritter

        I dont think he was Praying to win a ball game. I think he was really praying that there wasn't some odd-ball out in the audience with a "crush" for him.....

        January 3, 2012 at 9:18 pm | Report abuse |
  58. Mario

    I have a lot of trans-friends and they're very intelligent awesome people. It's very difficult to be different, but especially difficult to be trans-identified because there is trans-phobia in the GLBT community as well as in mainstream America and the world. The surgeries that many trans-identified people require are very expensive. Transgendered people who are unable to afford the surgeries are 30 times more likely than other transgendered people to commit suicide. Try to put yourself in someone's shoes before you judge them.

    January 3, 2012 at 2:23 pm | Report abuse |
    • Dolan

      Thanks for your words of support, Mario.

      January 4, 2012 at 2:55 pm | Report abuse |
  59. DC

    Each successive generation has to push the envelope, don't they?

    January 3, 2012 at 2:19 pm | Report abuse |
    • Robert Frost

      The envelope was pushed when you were born!

      January 3, 2012 at 2:42 pm | Report abuse |
  60. Charlie from the North

    "Judge not lest ye be judged" To all those folks out there asking "What would Jesus do?" He pretty much said it all for you if your narrow little minds won't explode... check out His words.

    January 3, 2012 at 2:13 pm | Report abuse |
  61. Dom

    Please Please Please don't make me accept these values. These are abnomalities and should be looked at as such. Please don't influence the schoo systems, legal systems, tax systems, and so forth to put this group on a pedistal like we did with minorities. Haven't we learned from the hate crime laws already.

    January 3, 2012 at 1:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • apeman

      Change your name to Sub, crawl back in your bubble and pretend the world isn't progressing.....you will never make it otherwise....

      January 3, 2012 at 2:05 pm | Report abuse |
    • sue

      Really? Wow. I don't even know what to say to this. Wow. Maybe go live in a closet and have fun with your hand.

      January 3, 2012 at 2:08 pm | Report abuse |
    • oldguy

      DOM. You sound so desperately frightened. Our living with full human rights won't hurt you. You won't even notice, once you start minding your own business again...

      January 3, 2012 at 2:22 pm | Report abuse |
      • Mississippi Man

        Trouble is, you Gays wont mind your business. Once you have put your foot in the door, you will not be satisfied until the rest of you is through that door. I am just one of the many straight Americans who are sick to their stomache of all the strange minorities that intend to run and ruin this Country thru legislating judges.

        January 3, 2012 at 9:24 pm | Report abuse |
      • Transman and Proud

        Hey Mississippi Man-
        Why are you so threatened by everybody who is different from you? Let me take a wild guess you are not only str8 but white too??? Well congrats on being born with such an awesome privilege. I certainly hope that you are doing something useful with your life instead of whining about something that in all actuality doesn't concern you... I am amazed at the amount of people that read these articles just so they can whine about how wrong it is. I for instance don't care about baseball so why would I waste my time reading about it? Just so I can tell people how much I don't like it? Get over yourselves your opinion is not needed.

        January 4, 2012 at 12:10 am | Report abuse |
    • Donna

      Please, please, please don't interfere in our lives; please don't try to force your values on us socially or through the government. Just ignore us and we'll ignore you. Attack us and we will defend ourselves, loudly.

      January 3, 2012 at 3:40 pm | Report abuse |
    • collaterly

      trans people only want to live their own lives, is "treat people as you would like to be treated" such a destructive value to live by? this is a rhetorical question fyi because I don't actually care about your opinion on whether I should be allowed to exist or not. It's not your place, so stuff it.

      January 3, 2012 at 4:40 pm | Report abuse |
    • procchi

      "Please don't...put this group on a pedistal (sic) like we did with minorities.." Wow, Dom, so you don't want to accept minorities either? You're a sad excuse for a Christian.
      By the way, in addition to reading your bible and learning about the forgiveness of our Lord, Jesus Christ, read a dictionary, too, and learn to spell words like "pedestal."

      January 3, 2012 at 4:45 pm | Report abuse |
  62. mike from iowa

    I don't care of people are S, L, G, B or T. Or if they want to be a dog or a cat, or vulcan. It doesn't matter 2 squirts, as long as they are positive people who want to contribute and be a help rather than a hindrence. The more variety, the better. That being said, I don't agree that Donna Rose should get to compete wrestling against women, she has a man's muscle's and frame, it doesn't seem fairly motivated.

    January 3, 2012 at 1:43 pm | Report abuse |
    • oldguy

      Mike from Iowa: You don't know that she has a man's muscles and frame. You are just presuming that based upon your thought that anyone with a penis has a man's myscles and frame. Haven't you ever seen a blocky heavy woman with broad shoulders and narrow hips, or a slight willowy man? You have to spend more time thinking and less time knee-jerking.

      January 3, 2012 at 2:26 pm | Report abuse |
    • coffeetable

      Completely agreed. Don't hate. Will it be so bad to allow everyone the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Reading some of these comments I begin to wonder if the USA was just something I dreamt up. 😦
      Happy 2012, peace and happiness to everyone.

      January 4, 2012 at 1:27 am | Report abuse |
  63. JackTors

    Live and let live people. It's that simple. Quit judging.

    January 3, 2012 at 1:31 pm | Report abuse |
  64. Envirogirl

    I unknowingly had a transgendered friend and after discovering that he was actually born a she and hearing the challenges he had growing up and finally becoming comfortable in his own skin, I haven't changed my opinion or love for my friend if anything I respect him more for being true to himself.

    January 3, 2012 at 1:22 pm | Report abuse |
  65. tom-ay

    It is nice to know there are adults who REALLY believe in NOT bullying. I am glad they support their child. And they set a good example.

    January 3, 2012 at 1:22 pm | Report abuse |
  66. G Money

    EWWW! This story disgusts me! Another reason our country is faltering!

    January 3, 2012 at 1:20 pm | Report abuse |
    • G

      EWWW? really? You are thakfully the minority in this country and shrinking fast.

      January 3, 2012 at 1:36 pm | Report abuse |
      • Sailor101

        NO G in not in the minority.

        January 3, 2012 at 2:10 pm | Report abuse |
      • Mississippi Man

        Think so? I reckon time will tell. One thing is for sure: the media won't tell. They will tell us the same things they told us back when Roe vs. Wade was in court. That "everyone" is doing it(whatever "IT" at the moment happens to be.) Later on, we will find out that the Moral Majority really was the majority. But, it will be too late then because the federal government will have their "ruling" and we will have a new " rule."

        January 3, 2012 at 9:47 pm | Report abuse |
      • Rick

        I think that the virulent anti-gay folks are a minority in this country and becoming more and more so

        January 4, 2012 at 12:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • Steve

      Small brains such as yours just need educating. Are you willing to be educated, or are you comfortable just being ignorant on any subject? The choice is yours.

      January 3, 2012 at 3:19 pm | Report abuse |
  67. johng

    LOki301 Its you that I will sit at the foot of god an ask that you be cast into hell for such thoughts and judgements ,Eye See You!

    January 3, 2012 at 1:15 pm | Report abuse |
    • fred freakbasher

      All of these "lifestyles" are treatable, if they just ask for treatment, they have a shot at normalcy...

      January 3, 2012 at 1:19 pm | Report abuse |
      • Cathy

        Yes – the treatment is to provide them with the hormones and body parts (as close as possible) to match their true gender.

        January 3, 2012 at 4:03 pm | Report abuse |
      • Rick

        What lifestyle do you speak of that needs to be treated? The Jesus drones?

        January 4, 2012 at 12:46 pm | Report abuse |
    • loki301

      JOHNG, I would welcome that day. However, God is on my side on this one. I want help for these lost souls while you want to punish the righteous. The lord shall deal with thee in good time...MWAHAHAHA!

      January 3, 2012 at 1:31 pm | Report abuse |
      • Sailor101

        This is not a religious issue, but rather a issue or what is right and what is wrong, what is moral and what is not but do not bring religion into it. You do not have to be christian, muslim, or a bhuddist to relize that this lifestyle is WRONG and geared toward quick self gratification, it is an empty and depraved lifestyle.

        January 3, 2012 at 2:13 pm | Report abuse |
      • Rick

        Well, Sailor, perhaps it is not wrong to those who are actually gay. Who are you to make that determination? Did you choose your orientation? Is so, at what age?

        January 4, 2012 at 12:49 pm | Report abuse |
  68. Tony

    please dont tell me Jane Velez-Mitchell is lesbian

    January 3, 2012 at 1:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • Tony

      dang it, I just wiki her

      January 3, 2012 at 1:11 pm | Report abuse |
      • bao

        She's ugly anyway 😛

        January 3, 2012 at 6:47 pm | Report abuse |
  69. Chris

    I'll accept them, but I'm not convinced that they're 100% right up there in the noggin'.

    January 3, 2012 at 1:07 pm | Report abuse |
    • sue

      my son is gay, and he's 100% normal right up there in his noggin'. He used to say he didn't want to be gay when he was younger. i guess he just had enough of the teasing etc. now he just accepts it as it is what it is.

      January 3, 2012 at 2:06 pm | Report abuse |
  70. JimBob

    Sorry, but this is America where people are free to live their own lives with their own beliefs. No one is allowed to force their beliefs on others or tell them how to live. Let's see if God answers the prayer for Michelle Bachmann to win the presidency.

    January 3, 2012 at 1:06 pm | Report abuse |
    • andrew.peter

      You're right JimBob. You have a God-given right to live for your self, and you will be held accountable for your actions. You and you alone, before an Almighty God. Take it or leave it. It'll happen.

      January 3, 2012 at 1:31 pm | Report abuse |
      • G

        So then I guess you'll be surprised when God smites you for being a self richeous jerk with no compassion for your "brothers and sisters".

        January 3, 2012 at 1:43 pm | Report abuse |
      • andrew.peter

        G – Quite the opposite. If I didn't care about him, I wouldn't bother make my reply. And I am not self-righteous because I am only my righteous by the finished work of Jesus Christ. The same can be said you anyone as well. The Lord opposes the proud and gives grace to the humble. Exalt the Lord and He will lift you up on the last day.
        You mistake my intentions. I am not condemning, but exposing readers to the sharp truth of God. May the Lord work on the hearts of all who hear.

        January 3, 2012 at 2:06 pm | Report abuse |
      • Church of Suicidal

        "Why am I down here, O Lord! I swear I hated them just like you told me! I even defended you on the CNN message boards!"

        January 3, 2012 at 4:21 pm | Report abuse |
      • TRH

        Please define a "god-given right."

        January 3, 2012 at 7:27 pm | Report abuse |
      • Rick

        andrew.peter: well, the only thing that is more absurd than empty proxy threats are anonymous empty proxy threats. your god is impotent and your warnings absurd

        January 4, 2012 at 12:53 pm | Report abuse |
    • TRH

      "You have a God-given right to live for your self, and you will be held accountable for your actions. You and you alone, before an Almighty God. Take it or leave it."

      That's a cleverly (or maybe not so cleverly) disguised condemnation. And I'll ask the question again: Which rights are given by god?

      January 3, 2012 at 7:39 pm | Report abuse |
  71. loki301

    I hope and pray that Michelle Bachman wins the presidency so that she and her husband can settle these issues once and for all. The Bachmans know exactly how to deal with the confused lgbt community by offering them faith based programs to make these confused people normal like the rest of us. What a great family the Bachmans are. Lets all pray for a speeedy victory for Michelle so that she can help these poor confused people out.

    January 3, 2012 at 12:51 pm | Report abuse |
    • sue

      hmm, i hope you are being sarcastic but i'm actually not sure. my son is gay ~ if she wins i'll faint. let her go pray away her stupidity

      January 3, 2012 at 2:04 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ally

        Thus the need for us to develop a sarcasm font.

        January 3, 2012 at 2:54 pm | Report abuse |
      • Church of Suicidal

        Personally, I want a dripping sarcasm font for extreme use.

        January 3, 2012 at 4:23 pm | Report abuse |
    • sandy

      i have heard rumors that her husband is gay.

      January 3, 2012 at 3:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • Maya

      Maybe we should intentionally inflict brain damage on geniuses so they can be "normal" like the rest of us.

      You're not superior because you're normal.

      January 3, 2012 at 5:16 pm | Report abuse |
    • TRH

      You truly must be a troll. If you really believe what you've said here, you are delusional.

      January 3, 2012 at 7:29 pm | Report abuse |
  72. JimBob

    Who are any of us to judge? I feel lucky that I've always known I was a man inside and out and that I was attracted to women. I can understand that not everyone feels exactly the same way I do. I don't need everyone else to conform to the way I am to make me feel better about myself. These are human beings, each with fears, hopes, worries, likes, dislikes, schedules, stresses, families, good days, bad days, etc. They're just people, and they deserve to be treated with the appropriate dignity and respect.

    If you want to judge someone as "sick," look no further than the many murderers, rapists, torturers, arsonists, etc. in this country who harm other people with their behavior. The people discussed in this article break no laws and hurt no one. Let them walk their own path in peace.

    January 3, 2012 at 12:45 pm | Report abuse |
    • coffeetable

      Thank you, JimBob. Peace and happiness to everyone in 2012.

      January 4, 2012 at 1:31 am | Report abuse |
  73. D

    Being "trans" is something that most people simply cannot understand. I know I never did. It's such a foreign concept to think that a person can be in the "wrong" body and that it must be a mental problem or that people were hiding from other issues in their lives. Surely, most people think, it can't be a "real" issue.

    However, my 4-year-old son has started telling us that he's really a girl. He pushes down on his genitals and says they "bother him and aren't supposed to be there." He is insistent that he use the women's restroom because he is a girl. He screams as if he's in pain if I try to cut his hair. He wants to wear dresses and girl clothes, not just for dress-up imaginary play, but all the time. But he's also painfully aware of how people on the outside would view this. He's afraid to tell anyone at daycare that he's really a girl because they will laugh and be mean to him. But at home, or anywhere in public where people don't know him, he says he's a girl.

    He has an older brother. He has a very manly dad. I'm not an especially "girly" mom. I have very short hair, wear pants all the time and don't polish my nails. He didn't get this idea from home. He certainly didn't get this idea from daycare. It's coming from inside of him and he knows it makes him different. But still, he is determined that he is a girl despite the potential ridicule from others.

    Now I ask you doubtful and/or bigoted people, how can you explain that? He's not sick. He's not crazy. He's above average on any and all intelligence tests. This isn't the product of his environment. It's coming from in him, from what he truly feels and believes. Until you've seen it in a child, until you've seen the anguish in their eyes, don't condemn people simply out of ignorance.

    January 3, 2012 at 12:29 pm | Report abuse |
    • Stace

      Best of luck to you, your 4 year-old and entire family. Truly.

      January 3, 2012 at 12:50 pm | Report abuse |
    • Mike

      Your son is blessed to have such supportive parents!

      January 3, 2012 at 12:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • Heather

      Hi D,

      I'm a cis female, but I found part of your comment rubbing me the wrong way. Especially since your son insists he (using your language) is a girl but you still use masculine pronouns and words like son. Have you talked to your child about what pronouns they would prefer: he/his/him, she/hers/her, ze/hir/hirs or another combination?

      January 3, 2012 at 12:54 pm | Report abuse |
      • les

        Heather, I am so sick of people like you, forcing your political science speech onto others, give this woman a break, she is dealing with an extremely difficult situation, as is her entire family.

        January 3, 2012 at 1:04 pm | Report abuse |
      • D

        Hi, Heather.

        I do understand why it would bother you. However, all of this is very recent. It's only been in the last couple of months that he has started saying these things. We are letting him guide things. Just as I'm sure there are my kids out there who go through "stages" and want to be the other gender for a short time and then change their minds, we are trying not to influence him in either direction. After all, with all of the reading I've done lately, I've seen that there is a huge variety in the trans world, including people who consider themselves "gender fluid." God knows it will be a difficult path to walk, with judgements coming from every direction, if he chooses to fully embrace being a she. But he isn't there yet. Maybe he is trying to feel out just how far he can go with us out of fear that eventually we will decide not to love him. He certainly questions his brother about it. "If I'm in a dress, will you still be my friend?" "If I want to play dolls, will you be my brother and play with me?" He's being cautious and for now is fine being a "he" in language. When he's ready to make the switch, we will as well.

        January 3, 2012 at 1:06 pm | Report abuse |
      • Joe Rioux

        Lighten up, Heather.

        January 3, 2012 at 1:10 pm | Report abuse |
      • Heather

        D, I am glad you have talked to your son about it. I'm sure it can be a difficult kind of situation to navigate, I didn't mean to be offensive. I just wanted to clarify that all people deserve to be called the names and pronouns they desire. Some people refuse to refer to people by the correct name and pronouns even after being corrected which to me is one of the most rude and awful things you can do to a person (which I am not accusing anyone in the discussion of BTW).

        January 3, 2012 at 1:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • les

      Your child is lucky to be in a very open and loving family, and also is lucky to be born in a more enlightened era when she will be able to go on hormone blockers before puberty. It's really the only humane way, before the body changes irreparably. Best of luck to you....

      January 3, 2012 at 1:01 pm | Report abuse |
    • G Money

      No, you are the sick one. Because of you, your son will become another freak to society. You need to nip this nonsense in the bud right now. Next, you need to get yourself some counseling for being an unfit mother.

      January 3, 2012 at 1:23 pm | Report abuse |
      • Cathy

        G Money – you are sick, to reply to a caring, informed parent in such a way. But I'm sure she knows that she will have to live with comments such yours for a good long time, since your type doesn't seem to want to die out..

        January 3, 2012 at 4:09 pm | Report abuse |
      • bipartisan77

        G Money- Shame on you for your misinformed, hateful views. I can only hope and pray that you are not, and will never be, a parent. People like you who are filled with such unjust hate and willful ignorance are a disgrace to our great country, and the human species for that matter. God bless the LGBT community as they fight for equality and work hard to prove themselves as that is, and has always been, the American way! Ignore people like G Money as they have nothing to offer society other than hate and division.

        January 4, 2012 at 2:11 am | Report abuse |
      • foxx 5000

        all of you make a strong and compelling point for justification in whatever lifestyle you choose(after all free choice is the greatest gift to the human race). But may I ask, cud anyone remind me why GOD destroyed those two cities again???

        January 4, 2012 at 6:55 am | Report abuse |
      • Rick

        Perhaps there were no cities destroyed, and that it is just a story written by men. Does posting God entirely in capital letters make your blathering any more valid?

        January 4, 2012 at 1:05 pm | Report abuse |
    • V.

      there needs to be more mothers like you in the world. I wish you and your family well, and your child a happy and wonderful life (no matter if they end up being a girl or a boy 🙂

      January 3, 2012 at 5:40 pm | Report abuse |
    • Sandi

      D

      Just love her. Love her with every cell in your being . The world will be cruel and she'll need you in ways you cant even understand yet . Male or female; this is your child. Nothing , absolutely nothing else matters.

      January 3, 2012 at 10:32 pm | Report abuse |
  74. jdoe

    I have absolutely no problem with LGB. I don't think that altering your body with surgery and hormones is necessarily a good thing. It's the body you came with. Be comfortable with it. Having said that, if people want to do it, it's their business.

    January 3, 2012 at 12:02 pm | Report abuse |
    • ThsIsNotReal22

      True but not all of them change physically, some just crossdress. It's kind of an umbrella term.

      January 3, 2012 at 12:34 pm | Report abuse |
      • jdoe

        No problem with people dressing themselves up any way they want. I just think surgery is rather drastic. If it's supposed to be "natural", then there's no reason to not accept your body the way it is.

        January 3, 2012 at 1:50 pm | Report abuse |
  75. Ok

    Donna Rose beat half the women half her age in wrestling but met all criteria. She beat them bc she had however many years of free running test in her system as a man to help build a stronger and bigger base of muscle and increase her bone density before transitioning. Unfair advantage over other women? Yes.

    January 3, 2012 at 11:36 am | Report abuse |
    • Ally

      Well, I'm sure the Olympic committee has debated this and set the rules at a level where they believe there is no unfair advantage.

      January 3, 2012 at 12:39 pm | Report abuse |
  76. Geoz

    The T makes me uncomfortable. I'm working on it, but not there yet. Thanks to articles like these I get a little farther down the road.

    January 3, 2012 at 11:27 am | Report abuse |
    • Pam no longer Sam

      It is OK to be uncomfortable. You are not closed up to the fact. You are learning. Being uncomfortable really is an OK feeling. When you meet a transgendered individual, just talk to them as you would any other individual you meet. I certainly don't mind if someone comes up to me and starts asking questions. I used to be Samuel. I don't mind people admitting they are uncomfortable or even asking me questions. I'm very content with the person I am.

      January 3, 2012 at 11:41 am | Report abuse |
    • V.

      like the comment above, its ok to feel uncomfortable. And you said you are learning, which is really great! I wish there were more open minded people like you.

      January 3, 2012 at 11:45 am | Report abuse |
    • CSR

      I love this part of the comments thread. Both, the original poster openly admitting that the "T" makes him/her uncomfortable, but to each his or her own... And the followups stating it's okay to be "uncomfortable", just be open minded.

      As someone else who is "uncomfortable" with the T, but understands that it's not my place to judge, it's good to see that appreciated. 🙂

      January 3, 2012 at 12:33 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ally

      I'm glad to read your post, Geoz. While I've had friends who identify as LGB for many years I've never encountered someone who identifies as T. I'm uncomfortable with it just because I don't know much about it. Reading articles like this show me I'm not the only one out there like this.

      January 3, 2012 at 1:34 pm | Report abuse |
    • Donna

      It's really comforting to know that articles like this have a positive impact. Thanks for sharing that!

      January 3, 2012 at 3:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • Phillip K

      Well, I'm a G in that LGBT equation and the T makes me uncomfortable so don't feel bad.

      Don't really understand why the T is there in that group denomination (They aren't exceptionally related) but whatevs.

      January 3, 2012 at 5:54 pm | Report abuse |
  77. Alexio

    Oh well... what's next for this lesbian daughter-son? Becoming a dolphin?

    January 3, 2012 at 11:26 am | Report abuse |
    • tekstep1

      You are a total i d iot.

      January 3, 2012 at 11:45 am | Report abuse |
    • Steve O

      The likelihood of him becoming a dolphin is statistically identical to you becoming an intelligent human being.

      January 3, 2012 at 11:59 am | Report abuse |
    • ThsIsNotReal22

      lol lighten up ppl

      January 3, 2012 at 12:35 pm | Report abuse |
  78. Gwendolyn

    Hate is the based emotion, and most of us know it. Yet, it is what we greet most things we misunderstand with. In this case, science is way ahead of society and faith. Sad, so sad.

    January 3, 2012 at 11:07 am | Report abuse |
  79. Janie

    No more freakish than, say, crazy cat people.

    January 3, 2012 at 11:01 am | Report abuse |
    • Jennifer

      I met Cat-Man once in a airport, really nice guy, after talking to him for a while things made a lot of sense....

      January 3, 2012 at 11:11 am | Report abuse |
      • CSR

        Key West cat man? aka Dominique? I love that guy.

        January 3, 2012 at 12:35 pm | Report abuse |
  80. NoOn8

    The only sick people on here are the ones making bigoted comments. Not one of you have been directly or indirectly affected by these people deciding to live their lives as their true selves. You discriminate because it makes you uncomfortable. Instead of trying to open your minds and act as a decent human beings it's easier to act like a mindless jacka$$ who doesn't even have 2 brain cells to rub together.

    January 3, 2012 at 11:01 am | Report abuse |
    • Joe Rioux

      I believe in having an open mind, but not so open that my brain falls out.

      January 3, 2012 at 1:12 pm | Report abuse |
  81. Heather

    What made his story interesting was this: His son used to be MISTAKEN AS A GIRL.

    Please if you are going to write about trans people learn more than the most superficial (and wrong) conventions of what transgendered means. This is a great resource even though it's only the beginning: http://tranarchism.com/2010/11/26/not-your-moms-trans-101/. Here is another quick guide, look at Point #6 especially: http://binarysubverter.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/trans-101/ .

    Final point: It is just common courtesy to refer to someone by the name and pronouns that they wish to be referred to by.

    January 3, 2012 at 10:52 am | Report abuse |
    • Joe Rioux

      Yeah, just as it's common courtesy not to masquerade as a different gender than you really are. Please. Cross-dressers lecturing others on common courtesy is like Newt Gingrich lecturing about marital fidelity.

      January 3, 2012 at 1:14 pm | Report abuse |
      • Heather

        Joe,

        Your comment assumes that there are distinct genders that are defined by some rigid set of parameters. The truth is no one fits all of the assumptions or current cultural thoughts about a particular gender. For example I am a female but I like short haircuts, hunting and guns, those things do not change whether or not I'm female. I also like purple and flowers and these do not automatically qualify me as a female or disqualify someone from being male.

        As far as common courtesy, you refer to me by the name I choose for this forum, Heather, and I refer to you as Joe or Joe Rioux because that is name you would like to be referred to in this forum. If I was to call you anything else, such as Stupid Joe or Ma'am (yes, I did make an assumption based on your name and comments) those would all be inappropriate and violate your right to be referred to as you wish.

        January 3, 2012 at 1:55 pm | Report abuse |
  82. Geneso

    Sick pople

    January 3, 2012 at 10:40 am | Report abuse |
    • Nero

      These are Sane people that are doing what is right for them in their lives. You only get one life and you should be able to live it any way you like as long as you aren't hurting others in doing so. These people are just being themselves. You Geneso are sick in the mind.

      January 3, 2012 at 10:46 am | Report abuse |
    • Bertina

      Learn how to spell.

      January 3, 2012 at 10:53 am | Report abuse |
    • Janie

      Yes, you likely are a sick person. So sorry for you.

      January 3, 2012 at 10:58 am | Report abuse |
    • Zenichi-Maro

      Yes, people who cannot see and love the humanity of their fellow human are, indeed, quite sick. I offer sincere prayers for healing the narrow-minded and bigoted amongst us. Like Jesus at the well, we must learn to love even those whom society has (wrongly) deemed unworthy of that love.

      January 3, 2012 at 11:08 am | Report abuse |
    • Joe Rioux

      Why is everyone jumping on poor Geneso? They didn't say anything bad, just that there were sick pople around. Now personally, I don't know what pople are but I sure hope the pople get better, and recover from their sickness.

      I"m praying for you, pople! Get better!

      January 3, 2012 at 1:15 pm | Report abuse |
      • Nyarlathotep

        Okay, Joe: you pray for me and I'll think for you. Deal?

        January 3, 2012 at 3:37 pm | Report abuse |
  83. Guest

    He said "His daughter wasn't a lesbian after all. His daughter was his son. She was convinced of it – convinced she was different in a way that no vocabulary quite exists to describe. " ,,, Yes, there is words for this. It's called mental illness. Instead of just giving in to this fantasy, you should get help. You claim to be accepting, when in fact you're just taking the easy way out.

    January 3, 2012 at 10:30 am | Report abuse |
    • Nero

      Who made you an expert on mental illness? This is what you think, but obviously you don't have a clue what you are talking about. You are probably one of those crazy christians that have faith that god is real, but can't believe what is before your very eyes. Please try to remember that we are all very different from each other.

      January 3, 2012 at 10:43 am | Report abuse |
      • Geneso

        Actually, I don't believe in any god. And yes, we are all different. Just keep it to yourself, don't show it publicly. Why they are the victims? What about the others, they were married to? We'll never hear from them. What a shame. The country becomes more and more contaminated.

        January 3, 2012 at 11:08 am | Report abuse |
      • Guest

        You say "obviously you don't have a clue what you are talking about. You are probably one of those crazy christians " ,,, Is this what you consider a valid argument? When you disagree with someone, you try to insult them instead of presenting a valid opposing view? Who do you think looks like the bigot and f o o l in this discourse? In case you don't have a clue, it's you.

        January 3, 2012 at 11:58 am | Report abuse |
      • Brandon

        Geneso, the reason why we (LGBT) get married to to make people like you, those who want us to be hidden, accept us. It;s that mentality that has this world so messed up. It's a sad thing when you have to date a girl just to make your friends and family happy yet every night you cry yourself to sleep. And yes, I feel sorry for the spoused that find out they have a gay husband or wife--but they shouldn't feel like victims they should fee bad that their spouse felt so ashamed that they went ahead and lived a lie just so others can be happy. They are the real victims. And if you want gays to keep it to them selves, and you admit we are who we are, then should straight people keep it to themselves as well? Double standard much?

        January 4, 2012 at 12:44 am | Report abuse |
    • Sammie

      I suspect it's not them who need the help...

      Just a thought.

      January 3, 2012 at 10:43 am | Report abuse |
    • Janie

      You really think years of hormone therapy, surgery and counseling is the "easy" way out? Must be grand to view things in such a simple manner.

      January 3, 2012 at 10:59 am | Report abuse |
    • Geoz

      so you reckon that being trans is the easy way out? Better think about that a little harder.

      January 3, 2012 at 11:28 am | Report abuse |
      • Guest

        Why don't you try to read a little harder. My comment was about the father being so accepting of his daughters condition.

        January 3, 2012 at 11:52 am | Report abuse |
    • dave

      Gosh – it must be so easy living in your world, Rick Santorum.

      January 3, 2012 at 7:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • Heidi

      Given that a person wanting gender reassignment surgery needs to complete 18 months of therapy, 12 months of hormone therapy and live an their true gender for 12 months consecutively...not exactly an easy fix is it.

      January 3, 2012 at 10:49 pm | Report abuse |
  84. Rod C. Venger

    Freak show.

    January 3, 2012 at 10:19 am | Report abuse |
    • Lars69

      Bigot

      January 3, 2012 at 10:30 am | Report abuse |
    • Nero

      You must still be in the closet Rod! If you weren't so afraid of the fact you were secretly gay, you would have no problem with this.

      January 3, 2012 at 10:44 am | Report abuse |
    • Seola

      Nero – you answer Rod being dumb by throwing out that he's gay because you think it insults him. You want part of the problem with acceptance? You are it. Someone says something dumb so you attack them with it. Yeah, that's so much better. Might as well be marching against gun ownership by shooting anyone who thinks guns are okay.

      January 3, 2012 at 11:29 am | Report abuse |
      • AZGuy

        "Might as well be marching against gun ownership by shooting anyone who thinks guns are okay."

        LOL That's awesome.

        January 3, 2012 at 11:50 am | Report abuse |
    • Joe Rioux

      Nero's just projecting. Because they spent their early lives in the closet, hiding, they naturally think *everyone* is gay.

      January 3, 2012 at 1:17 pm | Report abuse |
    • Veeg

      Hi Rod! Remember me from IH?

      January 3, 2012 at 2:24 pm | Report abuse |