By Debra Goldschmidt, CNN
(CNN) – Living people who were forcibly sterilized as part of a decades-long eugenics program in North Carolina should receive a one-time payment of $50,000, a state task force recommended on Tuesday.
North Carolina sterilized an estimated 7,600 people between 1929 and 1974, many of them against their will. The state apologized for the sterilizations in 2002, and Gov. Bev Perdue created the compensation task force last year. Many states once had eugenics programs, and seven have apologized, but North Carolina is the first to consider paying victims.
The five-member task force - including a doctor, lawyer, historian, retired judge and retired journalist – met for 10 months and has a February 1 deadline to send a report, including recommendations for compensation, to the governor.
The payments will need to be approved by North Carolina's legislature, and nobody is saying yet where money for victims would come from - some estimates put the number of living victims at 1,500. Task force spokeswoman Jill Lucas said Perdue will include the recommended payment in the budget she submits to the state legislature, which will take it up this spring. There is a three-year statute of limitations, so victims need to come forward soon.
The task force also recommends more aggressive outreach to identify victims, mental health services for living victims, the continuation and expansion of the North Carolina Justice for Sterilization Victims Foundation, which operates the task force, as well as the creation of permanent and traveling exhibits to educate the public about the state’s defunct eugenics program. The task force noted the need to ensure that the $50,000 payment won't result in victims losing eligibility for other benefits they might already be receiving.
Even deciding how to make up for the eugenics program is no easy task. Historians and experts on compensation say there are no comparable examples to model monetary reparations after. This is a far different situation than better-known reparations debates, such as slavery, for which no compensation has been awarded, or the Nazi Holocaust, which is tied to individual awards allotted after an extensive documentation process. The closest example, experts say, is the 1988 decision by the U.S. Senate to pay $20,000 to Japanese-Americans who were held in internment camps during World War II. Surviving victims were paid the flat fee for the suffering caused by displacement.
Steven Selden, a University of Maryland professor and author of the book “Inheriting Shame: The Story of Eugenics and Racism in America,” said the national eugenics movement was about altering the gene pool and eliminating people who spoke, looked, or behaved differently. What set North Carolina apart was how recently it occurred: Most states stopped after World War II, but North Carolina continued sterilizing people into the 1970s.
Selden said $50,000 is a substantial amount that carries symbolic significance. But, he believes paying any amount can be part of an ethical slippery slope that allows a price to be assigned to something that's priceless. It’s a bad idea, he said, because paying victims can start to seem like an easy way out.
"The question is, do we diminish the importance of it (by paying victims)?” he said. “I think those demanding reparations should think about it. Giving a dollar amount could be of just value, but there are other things that should be considered as well."
He would like to know more about the educational exhibits the task force recommends and suggests the state put money toward a curriculum for teaching the history and biology of eugenics. North Carolina could be a bellwether for other states, especially those that had eugenics programs of their own. Education better ensures it won’t happen again, he said.
"By making it an education issue and putting money into schools, it takes it long past the people who were harmed,” Selden said. “It's a win and a lose for North Carolina. They can lose by saying ‘We're not going to pay anyone,’ but the win can be that they say ‘We are going to change how we educate about this issue and that will lead to a national conversation.’”
University of North Carolina School of Law Professor Alfred Brophy, author of the book “Reparations: Pro and Con,” said North Carolina's eugenics program is an extraordinary circumstance of life-altering harm to individuals, which strengthens the case for reparations.
Brophy, who calls himself an advocate of reparations, said he's pleasantly surprised by the task force recommendation for payment. However, it's important for the public to first know the “human dimensions” of forced sterilizations, he said. A legislative decision on the amount of money offered to victims shouldn’t be determined until more details about the forced sterilization cases are known, he said.
"Truth and reconciliation needs to come first," Brophy said.
Meanwhile, the North Carolina Justice for Sterilization Victims Foundation created by Perdue continues to search for victims of the state’s eugenics program. Charmaine Fuller Cooper, the executive director of the foundation, said it receives about 200 calls per month from possible victims or their family members. They’ve confirmed that 72 of those who contacted them were victims and are working to verify more reports.
There are few public details about who - if any - were targeted for sterilization and how they were coerced into it. Nationally, many eugenics programs focused on criminals and mentally ill people, but in North Carolina, it extended to healthy women and children, many of them poor and uneducated. Mothers were pushed or tricked into signing release forms for their young daughters to undergo the sterilization operation under threat of losing state-provided aid or custody.
Their stories and circumstances have only begun to emerge recently, sometimes in emotional public hearings, sometimes in phone calls to the victims foundation.
Elaine Riddick was just 14 when she got pregnant after being raped. After giving birth to her only child 43 years ago, Riddick was sterilized. Her illiterate grandmother was bullied into signing the consent forms for the procedure.
Naomi Schenck was 16 when she got married, and was on her way to motherhood by 17. She went to the hospital after a miscarriage and left after a hysterectomy she didn't authorize. She never became a mother.
Men weren't spared, either. Charles Holt was 19 and living in an institution for boys when he was sterilized, and wasn’t aware of what it meant until after the vasectomy.
Fuller Cooper said monetary compensation could inspire more victims to come forward, but it could be years before the issue is settled. Many are waiting to find out if compensation will become a reality before stepping forward and disclosing part of their past they've shut out, she said.
Perdue issued a statement supporting the compensation proposal and said she looks forward to reviewing the full report from the task force. After doing so, she’ll make her final recommendations to state legislators, who will ultimately decide whether to pay people who were sterilized by the state.
Still, the compensation task force recommendations are a significant step forward, Fuller Cooper said, adding that every step is a step in the right direction. She said she'll be relieved when the legislature takes up the issue.
"We have completed one phase of bringing justice closer to the victims," she told CNN, “and we hope to build more support for the Task Force's efforts as we move toward the final phase.”
This task force shouldn't recommend no money for these people, for past administration insane decisions; Most of these people are the classic definition of deficient people...So no money!
You are welcome to self-nominate.
" shouldn't recommend no money..."
Well, that pretty much tells us what we need to know.
My meth-head stepbrother has had at least 3 children with other drug/meth addicts. Perhaps the reasons for sterilizing some people were wrong- but after having multiple children born with fetal drug and alcohol exposure- society should have the ability to end the procreation rights of people who are simply doing more harm to society than good. Its tax payers who have to pay for their mistakes. 50K in compensation is cheaper than a life time of care at tax payer expense.
They should be paid the amount they would have needed to adopt and raise a child or children in the case of people who thought they would have had more. These people in authority had no right doing that to those people.
Reminds me of How they can Pass out Decease like HIV/AIDS Its a BIO war on us
weeknow, therein is a prime argument for them to continue the eugenics program on you.
Reminds me of the evil science of creating Aids and HiV that they are injecting in People and our Community Hospital 's
Now there's a perspective, a true visionary!
Actually this is being injected internally by friends.
You are a classic example of people wanting to blame others for their own failings.
Most states had laws against certain people marrying and/or having children, including people who were blind, deaf, dumb, handicapped, and mentally retarded. By the turn of the last century, they decided that science could create a race without flaws and this was one method of ensuring that. This also gave rise to experiments like the lobotomy, which indirectly led to the creation of the Special Olympics after Rosemary Kennedy was given one to "fix" her wild personality.
Good. I used to deliver newspapers to the sweetest couple but they had no children because they were orphans and in their day orphans lived at what we called The State School-a place for elderly, prisoners, and retarded children. To make sure that orphaned children did not procreate and burden society with dependents, they were sterilized before being released to live on their own. In Vermont the victims were largely Native American children.
Wasn't Margaret Sanger and Planned Parenthood originally sympathetic/involved in Eugenics?
The list of people who supported eugenics was very long and distinguished.
No, Mrs. Sanger was NOT sympathetic to eugenics.
How about same policy for Rapist and child abusing animals..
Sterilization would certainly lower the welfare rolls. Some people should not be allowed to breed! I know of people that have another child every 5 years so they can stay on welfare. They should be given a choice, job training or sterilization.
My colleagues and I have often wondered why it is not a requirement to have a Depo-Provera shot every 3 months as a requirement for continued welfare support. It would be optional – get the shot to get the check or don't get the shot & pay your own way. It is temporary "sterilization" – as soon as you are financially able to support a family, you can stop & begin procreating away. If you can't take care of yourself you should NOT be introducing new life that you also cannot support. This is good economics, good ethics, just all around good sense. But it will never happen because politicians and people who abuse the system (more children = large payday) would never allow it. Sad but true – and it's the children who ultimately pay the price!! Not to mention hardworking taxpayers (such as myself) who choose to limit the size of my family so I can provide fully for the ones I have.
I like this idea. Plus mandatory drug tests.
I agree 100%. Helping people get back on their feet is one thing, but paying people to be baby factories is entirely different, and should definitely not be the role of government. That's just taking advantage of the system. It's unsustainable, and is only going to lead to more and more dependence on government (which, unfortunately, most politicians like - only for different causes, sometimes).
As for the topic of this article - well, eugenics gets a bad rap because of the Nazis in particular, but the reality is, there's actually something to it. We know traits like intelligence and certain mental disorders have a large degree of heritability, and everybody agrees that parenting has a huge influence on people's lives. The children of mentally disabled parents, even if they're lucky enough to be developmentally normal, are still facing very tough odds.
The way things are now goes completely contrary to the way our evolution has historically led us, in which incompetent, irresponsible people had poorer reproductive success than the rest of us. Now, they actually have greater reproductive success than the rest of us. It may take centuries or millenia to come to the realization, but it's going to have a hugely negative impact on our society over time if we don't do something to change it. Implementing a system that deals with this is a scary proposition, but inevitable. If we don't do it, a society that did will eventually take over and, if we're lucky, implement it for us; unfortunately it's likelier they will take advantage of us, as we'll be a poor, uneducated nation in comparison.
Does the shot work for men?
Because not every woman can use synthetic hormones without causing other major medical issues. And because everyone has a right to their own bodies.
I'm all for drug testing as a prerequisite to receiving welfare, in fact, I believe a welfare recipient should be drug tested every 3-6 months to stay in the program; but government has no business telling its citizens, even those seeking financial assistance, how many children they can have. It's wrong, period.
Depo Provera is a powerful drug with potential long-term side effects, particularly if used over a long period of time. You could implement your hard-hearted policy in your Nazified world with less Draconian birth control measures and forced abortions of fetuses conceived outside your rules. At least that way the woman wouldn't have the risks of long-term Depo-Provera use
There is no logic to spending money, after the fact, on 'educating' people about eugenics and its history, rather than giving the victims what they deserve.
The article says 'Education better ensures it will not happen again'. It's a little late for that.
I'm not saying it couldn't happen again, but I don't think 'education' would have any effect on the maniacal minds that would be behind it.
Eugenics is Politically Incorrect Scientific Fact.
Sad but true.
Lawyers will get 75% of the payout.
You don't know what you are talking about. The person who needs an education here is you.
Maybe its not such a bad idea in certain cases such as rapists, polygamists, ignorant people who have 4 or more children, with 4 or more different partners. 8 billion and counting.
I think that it was a good thing and should still be done today. I don't believe that these people should be awarded anything and aren't owed anything. I bet most of them are on assistance of some kind from the government already which would show that is was a good thing to begin with. The lady with no teeth said that she would have liked to have a daughter or 2 or 3 but she couldn't take care of her own teeth...come on people, get your head out of it.
Sounds like you would have made an excellant commandant at one of the Nazi's eugenics laboratories.
This is no conservativism. Eugenics was popular among left-leaning intellectuals, including HG Wells, John Maynard Keynes and Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood. It was opposed by cultural conservatives by GK Chesterton.
This is outrages, i know people that were awarded twice as much for a slip down some stairs.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME????? $50K for dragging American women, kicking and screaming, into a room and sterilizing them? And THAT'S justice???? HOW MUCH ARE THE LIVES OF YOUR CHILDREN WORTH???
This is America. We don't speak of justice here.
I paid good money to get sterilzed on my own! While I am fortunate enough to have 2 great kids, I also knew when to stop. I work at a grocery store with a mother that comes in on a regular basis with 5 retarded kids ranging from drooling all over themselves to just a little gumpy. She seems a little slow also. She shoudl have stopped after the 2nd one. She also pays with all her groceries with food stamps. I am sure she gets quite a bit of state aid/disability for that herd she brings in. There is another lady, and I use that term for gender identification only, not because she is anything i would call a lady, that just had her 6th kid, and she is unclean, smells bad, grossly overweight, white trash to the very meaning of the word. She uses food stamps also. When we are paying for people like that to breed then there should be some sort of forced sterilization!
While I agree that there are individuals who are very bad or unfit parents, your omnipitant (willing to bet you will have to look up the meaning of that) ignorant, narrow minded and mean comments sicken me. We are a society. A diversity of people. We are lucky enough to live in a country where we have rights. The other side of that level of freedom is that we, as a society, do not get to choose who can enjoy these freedoms as long as the laws that govern us are being followed. Instead of calling these people names, either lend a helping hand, or a kind word. If you feel these women who come into your store are truly unfit mothers, then for heavens sake report them to the appropriate social services. You are an adult – act like one. Hateful and mean spirited people such as yourself are destructive, and in my mind evil. Take a minute to consider if YOU had been one of these victims of sterilization. What if someone decided that YOU were too ignorant for our society to risk your reproducing, and sterilized YOU against your wishes. And another thing.... the word "retarded" is only used by "ignorant white trash". So my dear – if the shoe fits.....
L. Parks. WELL SAID. Who has the right to tell ANYONE how many children they can have? Who has the right to tell anyone who they should have children with? And a government agency should not have the right to tell anyone they CANT have children. The Government should in no way have that kind of power. Are there people having kids when they shouldnt be? yes. Are there people that despirately need parenting classes? yes. Are there people that need a helping hand and given the right tools to function in this society, instead of hand-outs? yes. maybe people can start in their own neighborhoods and back yards... better yet; maybe in their own family, before we start telling others how to live thier lives.
Yes, I know what omnipitant means, and I also know what retarded means, maybe you should look it up. Sorry it's not a pc term to use but it was used correctly. I really do not care how many children people have, they can have all the little retards they want, BUT when they can't take care of them on their own then they need to stop having them. It is frustrating to see when I work 2 jobs to make a comfortable income and support my children and these type of people continue to breed and expect a hand out. They should be sterilized or cut off from benefits. Unfortunately all you bleeding hearts that say who are we to decide who can or can't reproduce must not realize that their offspring that can't function properly are going to be on government support all of their lives and I have the right to not want to have to pay for that.
Still not enough. You destroy the chance for someone to continue the family tree. There is no dollar amount that could make up for that but 50,000 is just a slap in the face. Oh well, at least the current leadership is trying to make it right. That's something I guess.
Conservatism at it's worst.
Consertavism?!? I think not. It's liberals who are in favor of population control. And it's liberals who want to keep people on welfare instead of encouraging them to find jobs. It's also liberal who dumb down our public schools so people are ill equipped to better themselves.
So the taxpayers have to pay? Now tell me how does someone just with a IQ of 60, can support and take of a kid???
Steve, do yourself a favor and read up on the history of this before laying the blame on conservatives. Eugenics was supported mainly by progressive intellectuals and opposed by cultural conservatives. It was all part of an attempt to make a perfect society. It was utopian to the core.
You're right, but if it were to happen today it would be the conservatives fighing for it and liberals fighting against it. Just read the posts here and look at the conservative nuts advocating we should still have the program.
$50k for being sterilized? Are you kidding me? They better find a really good attorney, losing the ability to reproduce is worth more like $1,000,000+ not 50k.
Did you see the video? you wanted to have those two to breed? The woman has bad oral heath, looks like she can not take care of herself, so how can she take care of three kids that is would have liked? I bet they are on SSI. We just do not have the money to have more wards of the state, that is the real world
Are you related to Joseph Menegele?
And how might someone judge YOUR suitability to reproduce?
I friggin' hate kids but I know that, in America, the State does not get to drag citizens into forced sterilizations. It's nobody's business but their own whether they reproduce or not. And no, it doesn't matter if they're on aid or not. This is the most personal of personal decisions. Plus, it's a mighty slippery slope!
So Tankman... you think our government should be in the business of deciding who can have children? Wow.
No, I do not. But they being paid 50K? then no way
$50K is MORE than enough....obviously you are as ignorant as the people who are looking for the cash....
The children of criminals are vastly more likely to become criminals. The problem is that they usually squirt out a few rats before their first serious conviction.
Would you like to state whether this propensity for children of criminals to commit crimes is genetic or a result of their environment? Citing a reputable source would support your statement.
It's probaly Mein Kampf.
I believe there is some truth in what you say, children of criminals are more likely to be broken from the world. At the same time, children who are almost broken by the world are usually the ones to change it. Shame on you for your negativity.
Actually, the US didn't copy the eugenics program from the Nazis. Hitler copied it from the US.
And used the US as an example to defend his.
What the Nazis pioneered was the race eugenics but that actually was seen with envy by American eugenic advocates who wanted to expand the program.
This was a common practice far and wide after WWII. While it was very much wrong, NC is the only state to address it. Most states had their own eugenics programs. This was common in Europe as well. It’s and ugly concepts w e took from the Nazis. Eugenics first came into discussion from sociologist August Weismann.
Forgive my typos.
The Nazis copied it from the US, not the other way around. Eugenics was practised in the US from the early 1900s to the 1970s.
Here is an article about Hitler taking eugenics from us: http://hnn.us/articles/1796.html
Why wouldn't the money come from the people who ordered it to occur?
The money comes from the state because the people who ordered it represented the state. If you don't want that, don't elect nut jobs. America has a history of performing experimentation and stuff like this on unsuspecting citizens. Unfortunately, many states are in charge of deciding who has the right to sue them or not. The amount should be a million EACH plus the taxes paid for by the state–as long as the penalties are minimal and the actual damage great, we will continue to have versions of this, and the Tuskegee experiments, the issues on Love Canal, the Wind Illness experiments and people housed in Formaldehyde infused trailers after a disaster. Because when the government does not have much to lose–they think (and DO) what ever they like either covertly or under cover of their immunity.
I agree. Why should current tax payers foot this expense? What happened in the past happened; learn from the mistakes and move on. If these people are due a pay off from tax payers in this economic environment, why not everyone who has been wronged by a federal/state/local government policy? All of our ancestors have been a victim of government policy in one way or another in the past. We have got to stop throwing money away if we ever expect this country to get back on its feet.
It is SOOO easy to say "move on" when you are the descendants of the class of people who do evil–that way NOBODY pays. And because NOBODY pays–each new group keeps doing stuff and evil never stops. It stops when the price is too great to repay and no one wants to burden their descendants with it. Evil loves "moving on" –that gives it a free hand to do whatever then just whistle, walk away while the people that descendant from it, just shrug and pretend they bear no responsibility. Either you want a decent land or you do not. If you do not–do whatever–if you do–then for EVERY great evil, someone or something must be called into account and amends must be attempted and saying "gee that sure was bad, we'll learn from it" OBVIOUSLY does not work. If it did, we would not have recent examples of the Government running covert experiments on civilian populations without their consent. (Look up government wind illness or gulf war experiments on GIs and civilians)
The bible says the "sins of the father are visited among the future generations" That means we reap what we sow–in other words–if your ancestors did it and are not alive to face the consequences then any whose ancestry benefited from the crime have to answer for it. It is called taking responsibility and basically is a form of vendetta. SOMEBODY HAS TO PAY EVENTUALLY OR THERE ARE NO REPERCUSSIONS FOR EVIL ACTS and beneficiary or not, the descendants just SHRUG and think they can get away for it.
You reap what you sow and if YOU are not alive to reap it–consider (before you act) that your children or your grandchildren or great children will have to pay for the crap YOU do) THAT used to matter to people–know why? Because the children and the grandchildren of the original victims have to suffer for what was done to the original group–THEY are paying–now the PERPS descendants also need to pay–THAT is supposed to stop people from doing stuff like this.
So, by the logic you present, if my Great Grandfather mudered someone and got away with it, then it is found out that he was the one who commited the crime I should need to pay for that crime today?
you mean somebody has to pay the piper for the forced sterlizations. and what the piper wants, the piper gets.
Eugenics is wrong b/c it creates a slippery slope which allows a privileged group of people determine what the criteria are for reproducing. However current public policy related to reproductive costs tax payers too much money through Medicaid and Medicare for disabled children who grow into disabled adults. I wish pro life people would also weigh financial cost in the equation when they oppose abortion for disabled fetuses. While I can't determine who should and should not procreate; I know I would abort a fetus that I knew was mentally retarded or had downs syndrome. Mostly b/c I would not want my quality of life or that of my husband and son to suffer. I have also seen what happens to mentally retarded people who are incapable of their own care as they age. They often end up in state hospitals with no quality of life.
Every time you study history and think how horrible something is and you're glad it didn't happen here, remember also that you are wrong. It did happen here. Eugenics here and in Germany in the 1930's and 40's. We also had a genocide program here; we tried to exterminate all native Americans(Indians to me, but I'm a not so PC old guy). Our equivalent to the Bataan death march? The Trail of Tears. Using unwilling humans to study disease? Blacks in the south and Nicaragua (country may be wrong, but it was some central American nation). So, all that crap we're so high and mighty about fighting, we've done here. Eugenics is wrong. At the very least it's wrong because you don't know where to draw the line. What is a criminal? A murderer? A speeder? A jay walker? And is that person really stupid or retarded, or simply uneducated and their child may be the next Einstein? If we start setting ideas of "stupid", where would you or your kids fall on that line? If we set the standard, who's to say we won't decide to increase the average IQ in the country by sterilizing anyone with an IQ below 115? That would be most of us. But, for some of the horndogs(male by definition) with high IQs, maybe they'll use you as breeders; now wouldn't that be fun.
Yeah, in fact Nazi Germany got their ideas for their Nuremberg Laws from the US's eugenics program.
I like your way of thinking "not so PC old guy"! The US is not the only country to practice this type of behavior.
Does the statute of limitations exist anymore? Current taxpayers, who didn't commit the alleged acts, are funding these payouts.
The statute of limitations applies only to criminal prosecution.
Your an idiot
what wrong with criminals and mentally ill people being sterilized?
I think when someone is found guilty, beyond reasonable doubt, of killing, raping, abusing a child, he/she should be sterilized. Because they don't deserve to have one. Being poor doesn't mean they'll be poor parents.
who decides who is ill enough or whose crime is serious enough that they should be sterilized? And what of rehabilitation? Sterilzing someone punishes them for a lifetime. Even a life sentence usually has a possibility of parole. I might be on board with temporary methods like implants or injections, but permanent sterilization is not our place.
What's wrong with others who want to force sterilization on innocent victims being themselves forcibly sterilized?
Simple, it violates their reproductive rights.
There is no such thing as "reproductive rights."
Actually... read the Human Rights Charter... there is such a thing! That is why 'certain' fathers and mothers cannot be forced to undergo the procedure... But I must admit that I too sometimes feel some people should be forcibly stopped to have children!
how does forced sterilization lower crime and reduce the number of the mentally handicapped again? I missed the logical connection in your argument.
So, WRONG, can you prove that each of these people is serious criminal, or is permanently mentally ill?
Just how mentally ill does the guy need to be before you cut off his ___? Is an IQ below 99 enough? Simply having bad social skills? Failing algebra? Wearing stripes and plaid? Rooting for the Cowboys?
Two points-First, it's a good thing to look back at practises and policies which adversely affected people, admit that it was the wrong way to do things, clean up what is possible, and vow not to do that in the future. Second, two or three generations from now (about 2060), people are going to look back at things that most current citizens accept or ignore and they will be appalled at our uncivilized behavior. It is a shame that most people do not recognize and/or raise hell when it is going on.
Take the 50K and the people who did it sterilize them! simple as that
So, will this open the door for the US government to be sued? They ran their sterilization programs upon reservations into the 70's too. They victimized non criminal, non mentally ill, physically healthy women & children who went in for surgical procedures simply for being Native American. A friend nearly died because the botched sterilization (performed when she had an appendectomy as a child) caused life threatening complications during childbirth. She was never able to have another child. Those federal programs weren't just eugenics.....They were ethnic cleansing programs.
So now I know what my nuts are worth, $50,000. Or I guess $25,000 each?
No, with silly comments like that your nuts are worthless. Do the world a favor please don't breed.
Well, to tell you honestly, he hit it right on the head. How much are your nuts worth to you? Mine are priceless. That is what is meant about going down an ethical slippery slope, when trying to determine a price not only for a body part, but for reproduction. Get a sense of humor, good comment Josh.
I agree. $50K will not be enough to compensate for the loss of happiness having a child. I say pay them much much much more.
Sure lets just pay them more and more and more...how about if we dedicate all your tax dollars to go to these people? Since your so for paying them then YOU pay them. I've never lived in South Carolina...why should I pay anything?
The devil once again shows he is a Republican!
The eugenics program was actually largely Democratic, but mostly academic and scientific in terms of the communities that pushed it. It was widely accepted and gave birth to a number of things we accept today including IQ tests and the SATs. Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood) was a fervent eugenicist. Planned Parenthood and birth control were both created as a means not of good-will and humanitarianism, but of population control. Scary stuff and a stain on this country's history that most people know nothing about.
I knew you were a liar when you mentioned PP. The founder did not advocate eugenics – that's a Republican lie. Go look it up. On a neutral website.
I believe there is a procedure by which you can extract DNA from another cell and use it to fertilize an embryo (given the opposite partner's DNA is available), then implant the embryo into a surrogate to create a child that is genetically related to the sterilized parent. I believe making this approach available for free for the victims would be the closest thing to fair.
I just hope that the same people who were deceived by the govt the first time wont fall for it again, and settle for less than what they deserve. Get a lawyer.
The monetary settlement should also be included. Many of these people are far beyond the normal age range to have children. Also, the sheer violation and trauma arbitrarily, deceptively, and arrogantly inflicted on these people is inexcusable. There is truly nothing that can make this totally right.
Whatever politicians enacted these laws should be severely punished. In America, politicians are very often distant from the laws they enact. They act as though making laws is simply their day job, and they should not be held accountable for enacting or enforcing pure evil (ie J Edgar Hoover, George Wallace). By today's standards, Hitler could also be considered a politician above reproach.
You do realize how old most of these victims are now right?
Unfortunately that kind of procedure does not currently exist for people. I think someone managed to create sperm from bone marrow cells, but that was in mice. What you're describing is close to cloning, but as of now cannot be used for creating functional eggs or sperm. These both need half the genome, not the whole thing.
Everyone should keep in mind that in the deep south here...$50,000 is a fortune ..move into that double wide you been eyeing...or...buy a fishing boat and live in your truck...or you could really get that still up and running. I think we should give them money...free trips to nascar...and all the chocolate bars they can eat! I love the south...great place.
$50,000,000 is a fortune anywhere, and I'm sure many people would undergo sterilization voluntarily for $50k let alone $50m ... but I'd consider neither "just compensation" for loss of my reproductive rights or violation of my person. What a horrible thing!
If only the mothers of Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, Barbara Baxter, Nancy Pelosi, GLBT leaders, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and lets not forget the messiah in the white house were sterilized, just think how much better the world would be!
don't forget cheney, bush, rove, Hannity, Coulter, O'Reilly, Murdoch, Gingrich, Limbaugh and the rest of the rat pack.
lets also not forget the mother of lord vader
Well, that statement demonstrated your level of humanity.
I think it's funny how people who make more than $100K a year are deciding the amounts. It's like they are saying "involuntary sterilization takes about the same amount of time and effort and mental strain that I endure in half of a year at my job, which includes deciding compensation amounts for some of the most helpless people in America.
Eugenics carried out by the good people that brought you the inquisition and gas chambers, courtesy of your government. Land of the free (to do what the voices in their heads tell them). In God's name. Amen
This was mainly a program based loosely on the Darwinian theory of survivial of the fittest. Only the best of the best should be allowed to pro-create, where people they considered to have "sub par" genes where sterilized so that they couldnot pass those "sub par" genes on.
Now, Christians tend to value all human life. So your sarcasm towards religion is uncalled for here.
Well the Bible does say a man with crushed balls should be ejected from the community
Odd how the article brought slavery into this. No kidding that no compensation has been given. All of the people who were ever slaves are long dead. That kind of makes it hard to compensate them.
Oh, you must be new here. Welcome to liberal CNN where they will push their agenda any way they can.
If CNN is too 'liberal' for you, why are you here?
It looks like I've been called a nazi again. How fun. The nazi party killed people mainly based on RELIGION and ETHNIC BACKGROUND they also however killed a good number of people who were members of the so-called "enfeabled", which included the mentally and physically handicap. My opinion of eugenics is as follows. There is a huge desire in this country to keep people alive who cannot fundamentally experience the human condition or contribute to society in any way. Re: "pillow angels". These mistakes of the breeding process create a large number of problems for society and waste valuable resources, while people in other nations are starving and world population skyrockets. I am disgusted whenever I go to a mall to watch some woman shovel food into a wheelchair screamer while people in Africa and China who could contribute to the human condition starve to death. The eugenics movement was a good idea that was crippled by the poor science of its time. The people involved thought they were helping the poor by preventing them from reproducing. Now that we know how to diagnose genetic disease it is a fundamental responsibility for us to control the quality of our offspring. Eugenics will return because it make sense.
No it doesn't make sense bacause 1. We really don't understand how to diognose most genetic diseases, just a few. 2. For most diseases they are not the sort of diseases that eliminate the ability to experience the joys of life. 3. It is way too easily abused even if the genetics were much better understood than they are today.
"Wastes valuable resources" – – really? did you read that off the script somewhere?
Scary philosophy there, Dave. You know the German Doctors thought the same thing – – in the early 1940's. You would have fit right in
Thank you for articulating so eloquently what I was not able to. This gives me peace of mind. I agree to all you say.
Wow, completely scary post, when a "man" assumes he is of "god-like" decision making power, bad things happen. I hope you never get a chance to proliferate your type of evil.
I don't agree with either of you completely. You claim he is playing God by deciding who gets to reproduce, which doesn't make sense. However, by your logic – wouldn't we be playing God by keeping alive so called "pillow angels" through "miracles" of medicine?
The 1940's called. Hitler wants you back.
Keep in mind the first people to suffer sterilization and "medical termination" under the Nazis in Germany where people in mental hospitals. The Germans not only planned their programs using the United States' eugenics program; they also sent awards to many well placed Americans for their eugenics work. The Nazi authorities in Germany made numerous "public service" movie shorts to convince the populace of the correctness of the programs carried out against the victims in mental hospitals. Once the Nazis did not get push-back concerning those victims they upped the ante by including children with physical handicaps into the program. Older teens were sterilized; younger children were killed by doctors & nurses and death certificates were falsified to list natural causes for those deaths. Again. once the push-back was not noted THEN the Nazis targeted victims for religious, racial, or social reasons. Once one gets the train started down the track it is hard to slow down or stop. A study of the history of the U.S. shows we do not have to look to Europe of the 1930s or 40s for illustrations of such activities. They can be found right here at home.
Yeah dave, when you make posts about not keeping people alive that do not contribute to society you can kind of expect to be called a nazi.
Where is this $75,000,000 going to come from? If all of you truly believe that these "victims" should be compensated then use your own money to pay for it. I am a hard working tax paying citizen of North Carolina who was not even alive when this was taking place, so why should my tax dollars go into these people's pockets? I am all for education but paying these people off is ridiculous.
If you don't want your taxes to pay these people then feel free to move to a state that doesn't have a dark and recent history of sterilizing its citizens. This is bad stuff and the state will be getting off easy at 50k a head if it comes to that.
There is a type of Autism called Aspergers. people.with this condition are what is commonly.called "high functioning", but still often appear "disabled" to those not aquainted personally.They tend to be "late.bloomers" in life, yes are hertz frequently very gifted in some.way, such as mathematically or in language skills. They are the inventors and brilliant problem solvers of every age in history. The ideal goal.of eugenics may have been to "improve" the species, but in practice, it became a tool for enforcing conformity and mediocrity.
If you think you would be fine without tools, agriculture, medicine, or the advantages won for.mankind by the efforts of these unique.minds, then by all means, support eugenics. And live in a cave. And enjoy your daily struggle for bare survival.
Ok, two questions:
1. It says many were sterilized against their will, which means not all were. Why should those who went through it voluntarily get anything?
2. How in the heck is $50,000 enough to recompense being sterilized against your own will? If this happened in any hospital in the country today, say as an accident during surgery, the lawsuit would be in the millions and likely won.
Has any of you all who have commented on this report actually been in the situation of having to raise a disabled child ? I have, and it has wrecked my health, marriage and whole life. I was desperately trying to get my son sterilized, alone the idea that he reproduces and brings more doom to all involved is a terrifying reality for me. Every species keeps their gene pool clean in order to ensure the survival of the whole species, only us humans are nest poopers on all levels. Before the inquisition killed nearly all midwives in Europe it was their task to identify and kill genetic trash, just that you know. The prisons are full of genetic trash, healthy humans do not kill, rape, and other unimaginable acts. A friend of mine is a therapist in a psych ward and told me that studies show that about 70 !!! recent of the people submitted are the victims of genetic trash, it is called caregiver syndrome, and I know what I am talking about. The daily heartbreak and unimaginable stresses that are being subjected to someone who has to deal with this naturally occurring genetic waste is beyond what obviously all of you can comprehend, I can and I wish this issue could be treated realistically and not biased.
So let me get this correct....You're saying that genetic waste comes from unfit people? And what was your offspring?
Look in the mirror buddy....You're one sick individual!
Learn by Doing,
You have learned nothing and its a shame that you lost this opportunity by viewing it as a hardship where it's all about you.
Yes, I know what I'm talking about and have raised a disabled child. Go to....
I don't hide behind screen names making disparaging comments. We make a difference.
Sounds like you really love your kid.... by the way I'm bipolar, I have a bachelors of science degree, make almost 100 grand a year and have never been in jail or arrested. Does that make me "genetic trash"? Are my parents who are not bipolar "genetic trash" to? SO by your logic, you should have been sterilized to for creating "genetic trash" and I guess that makes you "genetic trash". Although I'd argue your just a piece of trash....
thank you for your comment. i know many poeple close to me who have had similar difficulties in their life but are now some of the smartest and brightest people i know. thanks again.
And what genes would these be? I've never heard of the Trash Gene.
Are you a geneticist? Maybe you know something that I don't.
Government sterilization is fundamentally wrong. It is fascism if not Nazism. This should be a decision of the person, The doctor and the family.
Once society decides who can and cant breed, its pure Nazism....
Learn by Doing,
You say that "healthy humans do not kill" then go on to talk of the inquisition where it was the midwife's job to kill. Aren't you contradicting your argument here? By your reasoning the midwives could not be healthy humans and needed to be eliminated as well.
You know the inquisition was during the Dark Ages of Europe. They are referred to as the Dark Ages because of the atrocities that were committed during this period. Forced Sterilization is an atrocity.
It's my experience in dealing with thousands of family's with disabled family members that the father is typically the one that cannot deal with having a disabled child. Your experience or feelings are not unique. I've seen many Dad's abandon their family citing stress etc....In reality it is about the perceived loss that they feel and about how it is effecting them. They view it as a drag on their lifestyle and they direct the blame toward their child or their wife. Only when they quit blaming others and viewing their child as defective can they get past this and truly enjoy the love that their child gives.
I sincerely hope that you can reconnect with your son and derive joy and happiness out of what you can do together. He may be different but he is not trash!
Thank you, that is kind.
I'm 27 and have advanced cancer. Because of treatments and a grim prognosis I had my dream of being a mother ripped away from me. It saddens and sickens me that people like you get children and people like me don't. Your post made me so sad for your child, what a life he/she must live with a parent like you. It's difficult to be a 24/7 caregiver to someone with a disability, it's hard and it's everyday and it's for life. I've taken care of my disabled sister for as long as I can remember since my parents passed when I was young. However this is YOUR child, they did not asked to be brought into this world YOU chose to bring them. They did not ask to be disabled. How horrible that YOUR life has been ruined, I'm sure theirs is just dandy right? If any of us deserved to be cleansed from this earth it is you and your selfishness and your ignorance.
My God! These comments, almost all of them, are racist, cruel, inhumane and uncivilized. Where do you people come from? Is this a contest here to see who can be the most outrageous and offensive?
Typical CNN supporters
stan, this is where americans are today. some not all are hateful mean sprited people. i have never heard people clap for the death penalty or for someones death for not having health coverage or boo a serving soldier for the "sin" of being gay. these are the people who north carolina and states that had eugenics would be forcibly sterilizing amoung the poor and mentally ill. it hurts my heart to hear people advocate for this horrible practice. i am sure these people would also call themselves "christians". they don't know the meaning of the word.
This state more than made up for it with the No Child Left Behind program in the school system. Need to replace the governor and this task force. These people could have produced off spring that would have further dragged the state and country down. the last presidential election proves we have a serious issue with the general population making decisions unsupervised!
You can't cloud the issue with poor voter judgement.
The issue is .... Was forced sterilization right or wrong?
Would you choose to do this to your children? Would you allow some politician to have it done to your child?
You need to look at the history of this program...and it wasn't just North Carolina it was all of America....The sterilized indigents, alcoholics, drug users, disabled, people of minority....basically anyone that they thought would be a drag on society.
This is a dark hidden secret in American History. I encourage everyone to simply Google America's Eugenics program to find out more about this travesty.
Question: If you knew a woman who had eight children already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had syphilis; would you recommend to sterilize her?
If you said yes, you just killed Beethoven.
Too bad you stole that from a post that's been reposted too many times to count. It would have almost been somewhat witty.
Big deal,someone would have written all of those symphonies
They would probably be better too
wake up america! we no longer can rely on natural selection to thin out the herd and with modern medicine people that werent meant to survive are also beating the odds..the earth isnt meant to sustain this many people and we are rapidly draining resources and even chemically modifying our food sources to feed everyone much to our own peril. we are a nation of fat weak greedy possesive oh and did i mention dumb people.. and we are destroying this country like cancer..want more proof just look at india and what a cesspool that country is..maybe or not we need breeding restrictions or we will seal our fate..i know compassion is intrisicly human but we must realise where this lifestyle will lead
Canwe start with you and your family tree
I fully agree. Darwin is going to come back with a vengeance.
I agree with fonscea – can we start with you and *your* family??? After all, since you care so much about the future our country, not to mention the world, you'd surely be willing to volunteer you and your kids and grandkids, right? Right???
The problem with your "plan" is that it ALWAYS calls for "other" people to be affected. You know who I mean..."those people". The ones who are 'different' from whoever is making the decisions. The ones who 'aren't as good' as those folks making the decision. The ones (as you so charmingly put it) "werent meant to survive"...as if there is some predetermined future for everyone that we selfish ole human beings with our doctors and our scientists keep thwarting.
So...unless *you* are willing to make that sacrifice, stop demanding it from everyone else, because you simply are *NOT* any better than they are.
Kay- when did you become the dictator of who is better and who is not? You bash the original poster for their claims and insinuate that they think they're better than everyone else. YOU just did the same thing, only you are pointing the finger directly at the person you think you're better than. You're no better either, and you're a hypocrite. You just choose to pick on people on the internet. If this was face to face, you'd be cowering in the corner keeping your thoughts to yourself. Internet tough guy, you're not as great as you think you are.
I don't see Kay making these decisions at all. She is simply saying that no one has the right to make paternal decisions for anyone...ever! Do you really want a politician telling you or your children that they were going to be forcible sterilized? Put yourself in that situation....Police come and take you to a clinic in restraints. They perform a sterilization operation on you. Then tell you too bad...you had it coming because you drink a little too much or had cerebral palsy or were deaf or happened to born on the wrong side of the tracks.
"Shay," just wants to feel important, the comment only states that "one person is no better than the other." Getting a chance to judge who is fit to live and who is not, is a desperate drowning slope of future desparity...
wooooow, go home Nazi...
thats american pride for you, shameful acts...what a country, awful, just awful.
Care to move to another one? I'm sure it'd be MUCH better elsewhere. /sarcasm
"Gee, we're sorry we f____ed with you, made it impossible for you to have children, ruined the future you wanted and assumed we knew better than you did about the most important decision you would ever make in your life. Here's fifty grand. Please don't sue us." Christ. And here I am, forty years later, trying to find a doc in my part of the Bible Belt to sterilize me. The problem? I'm not married and have no kids. Doctors tell me I'll change my mind (though I'd better do it pretty quick, I'm over 40) and one POS told me "Why have surgery, honey? Nature will take its course in a few more years anyway!" The unmitigated arrogance of these people is just galling.
My sympathies to you. Here it is, the 21st century, and we still have people patting us women and telling us to not worry our pretty little heads off about our own darned health care decisions. Jerks.
I'm a physician that ties tubes in the bible belt. If you're sure you don't want kids (and of sound mind), come see me and I'll tie your tubes.
$50,000 is symbolic and can't possibly cover the suffering it caused many or most of the victims of this sick program. I'm so sorry for all the victims.
In other country's these acts were considered to be crimes against humanity and war crimes for which the responsible people were prosecuted by the United States and others after world war two. Yet the same standard wasn't applied right here at home.
Although it's a tough decision on where you draw the line. If the government committed a crime against you, how long are they responsible for reparations? Am I to be held accountable for my governments actions and the actions of people who have been dead for quite a while; possibly 50 years or more?
It was wrong what was done. We need to make certain that it cannot happen again. And move on because we didn't do it.
If those responsible are still living ....why not prosecute them as we did others?
Maybe Pest and Bill_CA are correct.....Too bad forced medical sterilization wasn't done to their parents!
These people should not receive a penny! I'm sorry, but the money paying for 1) the task force and 2) reparations is a waste of society's money!
What is it were done to you against your will?
Ok, lets sterilize you and your whole family and then see how much the deserve.
the majority of those people were sterilized for the crime of being poor. many were singled out for sterilization simply because they were "handy" to keep the program going. the elite of winston-salem, n.c. got the program going in north carolina to cut down the number of poor whites and blacks that they feared might overpopulate and encroach on the elite. social workers practically hunted down people in the target group, lied, forged signatures and did whatever they could to keep the eugenics machine running. there was no rhyme or reason.
Oh the hypocrisy. Why do I get the feeling that most of those that practiced Eugenics and advocated for it on minorities and the poor are those that tried to also claim that the earth is 5000 years old and natural selection is a lie.
I do believe in God but somehow, I do believe the stereotypical "Racist psuedo-Christian" played a huge part in this tragedy. I could hear it now, "This is "gods" divine will." I promise you, killing another human being is not God's will... He made everyone in his image, if you believe.
I made my response in part to those who believe in killing and for those who believe in eugenics, the "killing" of future offspring development.
Being sterilized probably saved them more than $50k already. Kids are expensive, you know. Why should they get more?
Agreed! I don't think sterilization is okay, but if you're on welfare of you're having a kid at 16...you deserve to be forced to have an abortion.
When you are down on your luck I hope you remember making this comment, if you are asked to have your humanity taken away in order to receive assistance.
Greg, you are such a good little Nazi and must have been raised a good little Nazi by Nazi parents. But see, we live in the USA where you thankfully are not allowed to decide who can and cant have kids.
How is it possible that sterilizing people is wrong with 6.8 Billion people on earth? This should be mandatory in starving or impoverished countries. How irresponsible is it to bring a baby into an environment where you don't have the resources or desire or skills to care for the person? You just created misery. We have far too much misery on earth to allow birthing more misery.
How dare you make logical and reasonable points. That's no match for, "me wantee baybee!"
I fully agree! No money? No pregnancy. That should be the deal.
Forced sterilization focused on Americans would be the best, since Americans use more than 25% of all the earth's resources, and that is going up exponentially.
Take out 1 American and give 3 others a chance at a good life. Fair trade?
Just hit 7B people a few months ago. "Big story" that day in the news
Because studies and statistics have shown repeatedly that sterilization is not an effective form of social change, and it's usually done as a covert genocide, sterilizing those from the minority groups within a society. Increasingly, it is being found that the one thing that curbs births, increases lifespan, and produces smarter generations is the right of women to plan their families according to their ability. When that takes full effect, birth rates plummet and childhood survival rates soar.
The Eugenics program in the U.S.A. went a lot further than North Carolina. It was a sickening program that targeted disabled individuals, alcoholics, drug addicts, low income and minority individuals and others who were determined to be unfit by the medical profession. Simply do a little research on Eugenics and you will discover the extent that this was carried to. Germans were prosecuted for WAR CRIMES for their Eugenics program as well as other people in other countries. The only countries where this was condoned after WW2 was in the United States and Great Britain!
Popular literature was also circulated to support this heinous crime. 50k does not even begin to compensate an individual for these actions and in many cases the elimination of their family bloodline!
It should be a crime for unfit people to bring babies into their environment. How much misery can be saved by not giving birth to miserable areas of the earth, and by preventing breeding by people who don't have the resources to care for a baby?
Aww, thank you God for your judgement on those less wise than you are. Now, get a life.
Most people who have a choice one way or the other don't bring children into bad situations.
I agree. Bill CA–your logic is flawed. Yes, there is overpopulation now and it is a big issue. People should consider not having children or having fewer and conserving resources but that doesn't make the fact that these people where sterilized against their will or without consent or from pressure OK. Back then the world was not overpopulated. Certainly NC was not.
That it $50,000... OMG I would have killed all those responsibe. that is so full of disrespect $50,000....
The clock is ticking... The party is going to be over very soon. Are you Ready?
Sterilized the Governor's Kids and Grand Kids, and pay them $500,000.00 each for one time payment. Now, see how the Governor and his Family feels.
Someone's trash is other's Treasure?
I was five years old when my tonsils were removed. Was that a necessary procedure or simply the cash cow procedure to fatten the wallets of surgeons and hospitals? A natural born skeptic, I negotiated the terms of the operation and left the facility with my tonsils floating in a small jar, expecting to file suit someday. Unfortunately, a meddling parent removed them from the medicine cabinet and disposed of them within a few months. I distinctly recall they looked like a bleached, amorphic, water logged jelly bean – unlilke the bell shaped tissue shown in cartoons.
Where is my $50,000 !!!
The year was 1958
Yep dumb azz because having tonsils removed are the same as forced sterilization.
You may be on to something. I'm not into forced sterilization for anyone, but for some people it may be the right choice.
Like the welfare mom you mention. What if the state were to offer her and her baby 18 years of welfare, no questions asked, in return for her voluntary sterilization ? It would be cheaper for the state and easier on the earth. Forced sterilization is bad, but so is forced paying for other people's chronic mistakes.
This idea was brought up just a year or two ago in Louisiana.
It is not such a terrible idea.
If you are on Welfare and get pregnant, the state should offer a free sterilization.
I'm tired of paying to support other people's kids.
If you can't afford them, don't have them.
I totally agree, actually I take it a step farther which really angers my family and friends. i believe EVERYONE should be sterilized at birth and it should only be reversed if you are "certified" to be a parent, take a course, learn how to raise kids, etc. Too many kids having kids having kids....my grandmother is a great great grandmother!!
I think your comparison is way off and you failed to grasp who they did this to. The original plan was not sterilize those who were on welfare but those who were determined genetically inferior by a group of racist pigs that used a doctrine that originality was used by Hitler in WW2. If we used NC Genetic trait acceptance rules almost 90 % of the world’s smartest people would not have born do to the fact that there parents did not fit the cookie cutter mold that Hitler ops I mean North Carolina was trying to achieve
Sorry NODAT1, America had Eugenics and forced sterilizations BEFORE Hitler did.
I think you have a good idea, but add in the option of Norplant. Norplant is still use in much of the world, it is an implantable FIVE YEAR birth control solution. 99 – 99.5% effective. A 15 minute procedure that can be reversed by a doctor.
gerry, why do i think you are a male? first you should do some research, norplant can cause cancer, blood clots and death. can we try it out on the women in your family? how about we try it out on you? reproduction is a private personal choice. no state or local government should have control of ones reproductive right. jesus, what is this country coming too?
Sterilization should be mandatory for anyone who accepts welfare.
Sterilization should be mandatory for anyone who makes astonishingly ignorant and mean-spirited comments like yours.
If this was to rid our generation of unwanted gentic traits I think the Southern States missed a few judging by the TV shows Swamp logging gatter hunting and big shrimping
Judging from shows like Jersey Shore and a few others I would say that both North and South are equals.
Lol, "why can't we all just get along..." Immortal words from a beaten man, who thought to be completely ignorant, may have made the greatest, simplest, humanity statement ever...
What gives people the right to make decision like that for others it's just wrong not to mention none of their dam business. Those doctors where out of line rude and they should have to pay for what they did.
In order to budget this NC should divert pension check from any congressmen/senator, Governor DA or judge that was in office during that time period. It was their responsibility to ensure that right of all people were not violated and they failed in their duties so why should they still get paid????
Typical government thought process
1. ID a problem
2. make grandiose promise to fix it
3. Let someone else come up with a solution to pay for it this way if it fails it not your fault
Go home NC and come back when you have a complete plan not just part of a plan
I can not believe these people worked for the government and got a way with this stuff.. It's like a story out of a third world country. My g-d, They took the rights of children from children by threatening their families?
it's a racket...the lawyers probably will get half of the money, that tax payers shouldn't even have to put out. Who are these people making these decisions, make them pay.....gosh knows they probably have the money to pay, not the tax payers...we work hard for our money to be dished out in this manner, if we paid everyone whom the US government hurt, we are screwed...enough is enough . Frankly it isn't the government that hurts people, it's the nut jobs running these offices and approving the bills, pork for research and crap like that....crooks and the tax payers pay for it over and over...and over and over maybe it's high time these Elected officals should be made to be held responsible for crap like this that went and goes on. not we the tax payers who "work" hard for the little money we get
For lawyers to make money there would have to be a lawsuit...not a compensation program.
this is ridiculous....so in the end it still cost the tax payers...this is what happens when people try to do what is right, it ends up costing us, tax payers I know several kids who wish they had been born to other people, you can pick your friends, but you can't pick family. Some people should not be allowed to breed...even in todays age
Please, get help.
Jennifer, I agree. "MikeD", grow a pair.
I agree Jenn!
Alan we are all different. All people are intelligent. People apply intelligence in different ways. I mean look at Vietnam. They beat us basically with mud sticks and low tech guns in low numbers.
You need that diverse thought set to determine your future survival. You take that away and that symbiotic mindedness leads down a one way path that ultimately gets wiped out.
And who is it, exactly, that is paying the $50K per....not the people who did the deed, but current taxpayers who had nothing to do with the events. Yes, what was done was apalling and wrong, but making those who are innocent pay for the actions of guilty is wrong as well.
The current generation always pays the price for the former generation.
The Southern States are always boasting about their proud Southern heritage well this is the price you pay for living in such a proud state that is not willing to change or take responsibility for their mistakes in a timely manner.
i can think of millions and millions who need to be sterilized!
Start with congress...
Just when I think I've seen everything. While there are several people running around in my orbit who would do mankind a great service by getting sterilized, I also think they should be given a choice. This world is a strange and scary place.
Dude it should bother you that you have to say "so far" in your explanation lol. I'm more for hoping there's an outcome where we all survive. And thrive.
If it gets bad like you say ill just work to pay for my parents care. I'm sure that's what most families will do. The problem becomes the loss of revenue to your corporations at that point. I'm just watching/listening as much as I can. It comes down to do you want to pay for your downs sister to live or drive a lexus? The main thing people fail to realize is we have the money to do all of the solutions discussed. Everything happening now is based on artificial scarcity. People hurting just to hurt.
God Bless America!
Damn nazi politics...
Bebe they are talking about race genetically. As in "you have a different gene set, so therefore you don't deserve to live and I do". Its the same set of people that propped hitler up without him knowing it was not of his own volition. They had abused him over his life and he wanted revenge. He misidentified them as Jews. He killed many people as their puppet. There is some really nasty stuff hidden within history. You are right though. Its just like nazi Germany all over again.
Strange enough I've read the websites about autistic mothers wanting to kill themselves or their children and I understand how hard it is. Really. You eugenics people do have a point BUT having said that its still wrong and will always be wrong. If we had a better set of people that guided society in a more moral direction that problem would be eliminated. If the parents couldn't care for them we would have real systems in place. Not welfare bs etc you all talk about. The guiders set an example by driving exotic cars having multiple homes owning corporations etc. Their greed trumps life. Those people will never be "right". Ever. And as it collapses now there is some cleansing happening. Its just unfortunate it affects the people that weren't acting like that in the first place. Good luck with you bed.
Why would you feel the need to turn this into something such as race? Does it matter what color their skin was? I think not!!!! Whomever had this done to them are victims and by making this a racial contest you are degrading them more, so stop being ignorant. These people will never be compensated enough for whats done to them no matter wjat the out come is. All we can do as americans is learn about it and fight for our own to make sure it doesnt happen to our children and families.
I think they should be given the option of the $50K payment, or be allowed to kick every member of the task force in the nads.
I'd take the $50,000 then pay someone $100 to kick them in the nads.
Quote: 'Just like mandates for carrying insurance, and pre-authorization of medical procedures, this program was done in the spirit of public health and welfare.'
Why does that sound like the push for everyone to be thin? NOT healthy for you personally (as that may not be your natural size) – eating right and exercising. You should focus on overall health, but focus is on 'ideal body image', and God help you if you don't fit it. You're treated badly in all areas of life. Why the push to get everyone to look a certain way? It may not be best for you to try and be thin. Your body may not be made that way. (Thin – NOT the same as healthy) yet done in the NAME of 'health'.
you and that guy dave aught to be nutered.you freaks like to justify cruelty to humans.you belong buried along side of hitler.why nuter you,someone should just buy a bullet for you.you discust me,you are vermin that deserve to be swept out along with your scrotum.
you and that guy dave aught to be nutered.you freaks like to justify cruelty to humans.you belong buried along side of hitler.why nuter you,someone should just buy a bullet for you.you discust me,you are vermin that deserve to be swept out along with your scrotum.I haven't commented on this before but if someone did god bless them.
Let me explain eugenics. Eugenics means applying the concepts applied to animal breeding on humans and it is based off very clear logic. The last thing that any nation needs is a generation of the enfeebled reproducing en masse. It was "at its time" the cutting edge of science. What are welfare, methadone clinics, and homeless shelters other than eugenic policies and organizations? It's just the extent to which people object. Most of the people that were effected by these policies were wards of the state and the state was just applying what amounted to at the time the best scientific thinking of the time. Think of this as a medical procedure that due to some highly publicized failures was forbidden in the US. The people who did this honestly thought that it was the right idea at the time. Also, we should all be aware that this time will come again. We now have a much greater understanding of genetics and I look forward to the day when the government requires all fetus who have down's syndrome and other such genetic disorders to be aborted. That day isn't today, but hopefully it will come soon.
Dave, that is cruel of you to say that you'll be glad to see the day when unborn fetuses with downs and genetic disorders aborted! That is absolutely horrid. I have a child, and even IF there was something wrong with her I wouldn't trade her for anything in the world or even THINK of what my life would be like without her. Luckily my child is healthy, but some parents aren't so fortunate and would not like your ways of thinking.
I wish your mother had aborted you! It's vile ppl like you that the earth needs to be rid of not children with downs.
Too bad that day wasn't when you were in gestation; we would all have been spared your existance.
Thank you. I completely agree with aborting all fetuses with down syndrome or mental retardation. Many expectant parents do not understand the difficulties involved in raising a mentally disabled child. Additionally, expectant parents do not have the foresight to understand the difficulties their child will have as an adult, especially once they are deceased.
You people are sick, no child should be aborted due to downs...... are you sure you werent aborted and your mothers birthed what the docs missed????????
Are you raising a such child? I am! She is a beautiful amazing 13 year old with lots of high hopes and goals in her future.Most ppl can't even tell she has a handicap.I think we need MORE ppl like her on this earth NOT lose rs like you!
I'd rather spend an eternity with all the downs syndrome and mentally challenged kids that ever lived than to spend one nano second with you. My sister was mentally and physically challenged and had more heart than you will ever have.
"Let me explain eugenics." You're a pompous moron and I sincerely hope you've never procreated. Your poor offspring would surely suffer one of two fates: they would either be humiliated to have such a vile person for a father, or worse, they might be poisoned by your ludicrous beliefs. And I certainly hope you don't have a special needs child....you might literally poison the poor thing! Do everyone a favor and sterlize yourself.
Oh, and once you're finished trying to abort all of the special needs babies, maybe you can find time to brush up on your grammar. It's "affected," not "effected" in the context of your 7th sentence. You explain eugenics, Dave. I'll help you out with your grammar issues.
Dave: I was fascinated by the level of anger in the responses to your comment. One would think that everyone would support, at least in theory, the idea of making the human race healthier, longer-lived, more intelligent. Putting that into practice, of course, is another thing entirely. But so many people replied to you with such fury - I think that's interesting.
looks like you got the genes of Adolph Hitler running thru those cold veins of yours!
HITLER wanna bee
but who is decide what genetic traits are allowed or breed out?
In what way are they less valid than you?
Actually, dave, I would argue that the "very clear" logic behind animal breeding has resulted in all sorts of physical problems for animal breeds and all sorts of ethical problems for humans. Eugenics, by the way, was never cutting edge science. In its early days many people saw right through the Social Darwinism at its core which, unlike Darwinian evolution (entirely based on chance, not forced selection as is your wet dream), was never real science.
50000 dollars is nothing compared to taking your life away basically as they have done. In this economy that's a slap in the face. Maybe they can get a nice car and box of marlboros as they continue to painfully die. Justice is a joke.
Cheaper than having to pay all of their descendent's welfare
beware of genetically modified foods.....proven to cause sterilization in lab animals.
how wonderful a world it is when your government sterilizes you – I wonder what Bill Gates thinks -
Funny how NC could find money for forced sterilizations but can't find any for voluntary procedures. Or birth control of other types, either.
This happened a lot in Texas. Anyone could have anyone committed. My wife was raped by her mom's boyfriend had the child and was then committed by her mom so they COULD sterilize her on those grounds. She committed suicide at 29. Yea I laughed when they caught on fire this year. Screw'em
Too bad Texas did not sterilize Barbara Bush, they could have saved this country a whole lot of headaches.
Cute. Give away taxpayers money for some ancient mistake in treating mental patients. Why not give away money to people with black skin too. Have a regular free-for-all on the taxpayers dime.
Too bad they didn't get around to your parents.
They do its called "Welfare" :o)
for your information there are more white people on welfare then there are black or hispanic. god forbid you ever have a time when you are in need of a little help. do we punish the children for their mothers giving birth to them? in this country we could help everyone in need without batting an eye. it is just the wars and the war machines that have cost us so very much, including our humanity. shame on you. try to live by the golden rule and remember that there but for the grace of god go you.
I thought we were already giving money to black skinned people.
Been paying for our ancestors actions ever since I have been alive.
Woodrow, we already are doing that – It's called welfare, social security, SNAP and what all else they have for free while we go to work every day to pay for it.
Bad things sometimes happen to innocent people. Throwing money at the victims will not fix the damage that was done. It will not make these people whole. Nothing can make them whole. Victims should be happy to know that the practice has stopped. Federal or state governments cannot monetarily redress all past trangressions.
Well, they can mandate that it should happen. But then the rest of the citizens in the state or U.S. are the ones that actually end up paying for it. Which is where my previous comment comes from. I am a bit tired of having to deal with the reprocussions of all the bad things that have ever happened throughout history. I was not involved, never would have made those decisions and would have fought against most of it, but yet I continue to have to pay and pay.......enough already
I wish I'd been a "victim." I don't want kids and I do want $50k.
Yes $50,000 really covers ruining a persons entire life.
Not being able to have children doesn't mean your life is ruined.
To some people it IS ruined, especially if the reason was not a natural one but one imposed by others just to keep your genes from ever continuing–for some, it could be the most traumatic thing in the world. Sons and daughters and continuing a gene pool are about the only bid for personal immortality (Perpetuation of some aspects of self) that humans have–all other things and information, including deeds and history are subject to distortion and revision.
Since it goes back to 1929, can the person's children collect the money?
If the victim died I mean.
Sadly they'd have to be adopted children or step children...
Yes, adopeted children like Steve Jobs. What a shame.
What children?? They were sterillized. So I am gonna say no, they can't.
Randold, I get what you are saying. If the person had children prior to the operation and the sterilization led to premature death or 'worse' immediate death, then that is something the board will have to take into consideration.
No, they can't. A story on NPR reported that children of victims are not eligible to receive compensation.
I do understand where everyone is disgusted by what happened to these people. But I for one and getting really tired of having to pay for screwed up decisions that people made when I wasn't even old enough to know what eugenics was.
That is a selfish statement if ever I heard one. I suppose you wouldn't expect any compensation if you were sterilised just because... basically because of some prejudice? You would be fine with that?
I would not expect everyone else to pay for something they had absolutely nothing to do with. What good is it going to do to give these people $50,000. Is that going to bring back their ability to have and raise children? Not hardly. Don't get me wrong, I feel very bad for the people that this happened to that are still alive and struggling with the idea that they were sterilized without their consent, but it doesn't mean that I should have to pay for them to get money out of it. Just like I would not expect others to pay me for anything unfortunate that has happened in my life, that I had no control over.
We are currently making mistakes that will cost others in the future. The price of oil per barrel and prescription drugs is one of the few things I can think of that we actually are paying for in advance at a set future value.
Laws, times, and people change over the years. What was once a hanging offense is now a misdemeanor. Retroactively charging those who carried out a public safety measure is surely an overstep in trying to correct an error in our past history. While an abomination to us today, this was carried out in many states with the consent of those in power to legislate at the time. Lobotomies were the norm at the same time for such illnesses as Parkinson's or even epilepsy. A perceived genetic abnormality, or insanity was dealt with in the manner of the times.
The fact that it went on into the 1970's in parts of the country must give one pause to reflect on our misguided thinking, but certainly should not be held against professionals who were carrying out the laws and public policies that were in place at the time.
Accept that there are people looking into making amends for the policy, but do not kill or convict those who were acting out of stated public policy concerns, not malicious acts of violence, such as rape, which you suggest.
Oh and let's not forget it was Charles Karualt's father that ran this deal too. He had people go out into the countryside in NC to find "candidates" for them to "use".
one of the most despizable things about people who are sick in the head not enough for the victims of this horranius crime.
Learn to spell geeez..
"horranius." I'm sorry....that cracked me up.
$50K for the victims? How about GIVE MY LIFE BACK. How about $1 million. There is no amount that can pay that will make this situation any better. $50K? Are you kidding me? How about I take out the scrotum and penis all together of the CEO of the company that is responsible and also take out the womb from his wife's body and we call it even.
If as you say, no amount of money will begin to repair the psychological, physiological, and soiological pain inflicted on those who fell prey to this program, why should you suggest that monetary compensation is deserved, rather than education for future generations to learn from this failure of public policy?
Money won't bring their fertility back, so take it (fertility, scr otom, womb, et al) away from someone else to get your pound of flesh in retribution? Capital Punishment correlations starting to rev up at the thought of that.
Were you the miscarried birth of one of the victims of this program? It is truly a dark period in history, which is regrettable, and something we can learn from, just as the Holocaust is taught in schools, so we can avoid repeating it in the future.
Take your anger out on the government and future health care, so that ObamaCare does not turn into the same type of debacle, when the government has a claim into how we receive treatment for our health. Just like mandates for carrying insurance, and pre-authoriztion of medical procedures, this program was done in the spirit of public health and welfare. Getting nervous yet?
Really? Knock if off, would you? How disingenuous of you!!! You know good and doggone well that what The President is shooting for with Health Care Reform doesn’t have anything to do with what you said. But, as long as you and your kind can create that air of fear, and the possibility that something like this could happen under, as you put it, “Obamacare” (how mature and informed of you…by the way), then serves your purpose and agenda, and of course, that’s all that matters to you right? Truth and facts be damned…
No one is “scared yet” except you and your ignorant kind…
I'm not real nervous about it. The govt has been insuring the nations elderly for some time now. They've done alright but not perfect. So far, there's been no death panels, like the pundits you listen to suggest. When the GOP abolish social security, do you think the rich 'job creators' will help the elderly? When the GOP abolish medicare, do you think insurance companies will pick up the tab for nursing home patients? Okay, now I'm nervous!
A million each. At 1,500 possible victims. Where do you suppose we get the 1.5bil that would be needed?
By acknowledging that the victims have any right to compensation _at all_, they are also condemning everyone responsible to possibly spending the rest of their lives in prison. They are, after all, providing all the evidence that would be needed to secure, at a minimum, convictions of rape, as defined in North Carolina. Think of it like this: If you, today, abducted a perfect stranger and performed a forced sterilization on him or her, what punishment would you face? I'm suggesting that you'd never see the outside of your prison cell for a crime like that. And that's the crime that's being confessed to by offering this monetary settlement. Anyone who is still alive today who participated in this atrocity should be locked up, forever, and yes I understand that they are mostly elderly persons.
You can not put the same onus on someone who was following a stated public policy then, to someone doing the same thing today, just as we do not burn suspected witches, or place people on a rack in the town square for adultery. Times change, people change, and public policy and morals change. I agree, GREAT HARM WAS DONE!
What would a Puritan think of the way teens dress today? What would the punishment have been then, for a woman who dressed like Lady Gaga during colonial times? She would have been re-educated and committed into an asylum.
We can learn from our mistakes without attaching today's punishment to yesterday's crimes.
Careful! If I killed a person 30 years ago, I should not have to be punished for it? Remember that some of those people are still alive and in their 50s. They are still pretty young, have had a great injustice done against them, and they should say: well, it was 40 years ago... let by-gones be by-gones? It didn't happen all that long ago!
I am not condoning killing, just stating that the eugenics program was the practice at the time. Murder and manslaughter was a crime in the 1930's as well as the 1970's, when unbelievably, these eugenics programs still existed in some places. I never condoned criminal behavior, and I was speaking to those who would make the eugenics program criminal retroactively and hold the doctors who carried out public policy accountable, as if they were doing these same practices today, despite public outcry, and changes to public norms and policies. Of couse someone who kills is subject to punishment, even if it is a thirty year old case, since it was a crime, both then and now.
Losing your reproductive capacity is no less serious an intrusion, abomination, and assault, but it was an acceptable practice at the time. We can learn from our past ill conceived policies, and I hope we do.
I am not talking about setting up a master race and deciding who should procreate and who is inferior, and whose bloodline to extinguish. I am also not talking about medical experiments designed to see what extremes the human body could endure, to be used as a measure in torturing others to that brink for cruel purposes. That was a distinction between what we had done through eugenics, versus the crimes of humainty that were committed during the Holocaust.
Bobcat, your logic is tragically flawed. Many, many, many people knew eugenics was wrong back the in the 30's, the 70's and today. Its like saying it was ok for Nazi's to perform inhumane experiments (but not killed them) on Jews because they were thought to be inferior human beings. SO by your logic a Nazi sympathizer who was involved in this and found out today should just go free....
That sum is a gross insult.
I have to agree, Hypatia.
So isn't this exactly what we're supposed to hate & demonize Hitler for? Here is another factoid. Many of those eugenic programs were implemented by the poor, "persecuted," wandering whining "chosen."
The poor in America has never had the power to implement anything in this country except murder & lynching of blacks. So what the hell are u talking about
Your statment sounds anti-semitic so you must be an idiot, or at best an imbecile.
What this article leaves out: *most* of the women were poor, uneducated, and black.
What's the punishment, today, for this crime? Is anyone involved in the program still alive today, and can they be brought to justice please?
And there'd be even more of them if this program hadn't been implemented. Unfortunately the poor and uneducated (of any race) are too stupid to refrain from cranking out babies they cannot afford and who will grow up to be just like them.
So educate them! Get them to a point where they are capable of making informed decisions! Too hard?
get back on your meds!
No doubt you are talking from experience. Arrogant butt wipes are more likely to raise arrogant butt wipes.
That is actually incorrect most of the victims where white women that were poor and uneducated. They do exsist you know.
Trying to translate "loss of enjoyment of life" into money for compensation purposes is never easy, but the recommendation seems quite low. Will the sum at least bear interest?
It's been almost 40 years since the last sterilization, after all.
It's no "loss of enjoyment." It's victim of rape, at a minimum, and victim of something that war criminals were hanged for. Anyone still alive who had any involvement in this atrocity should face prison.
They were deprived of the capability to have children; for many people, that is what life is all about. "Life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness." in a nutshell.
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