By Steve Kastenbaum, CNN Radio National Correspondent
New York (CNN) – Every time a cop car slows down near him, Djibril Toure worries that he’s about to be stopped and questioned. Not because he did anything wrong - the 39-year-old businessman and activist was born and raised in New York, attended Cornell University and said he’s never committed a crime.
But New York police are allowed to stop and question anyone on the street if they have a reasonable suspicion that the person was involved in illegal activity, is about to commit a crime or is carrying a gun. The policy is known as “stop, question and frisk.” Close to 700,000 of the searches took place in New York last year, a record number.
Proponents say it’s an effective tool that has contributed to a historically low murder rate in New York. Critics say it’s racial profiling. More often than not, the people stopped are black or Hispanic males, according to New York Police Department statistics.
Toure, who is black, lives in Brooklyn’s Bedford Stuyvesant neighborhood, a predominantly African-American section of the city with a history of high crime rates. He said he’s been stopped and questioned by police more than a dozen times since the late 1990s, and he believes it’s because of the way he looks.
“I felt a combination of angry and humiliated,” Toure said. “There was no reason for them to stop me. I hadn’t done anything.
“Honestly, it makes young people mistrustful of the police. I think it makes them feel like the police are their enemy.”
A federal judge might soon decide whether New York City is taking that policy too far and violating the rights of minorities. Toure is among several men who filed a class-action lawsuit against the police, saying "stop, question and frisk” is a racist policy.
New York police sued over residential building patrols
At a recent City Council hearing on “stop, question and frisk,” Police Commissioner Ray Kelly testified that 96% of shooting victims in New York are people of color and therefore, stopping and questioning suspicious individuals in minority communities is justified. He said about half of the stops actually result in a “limited pat-down” and only 9% result in a more thorough search.
“People are upset about being stopped, yet what is the answer?” Kelly asked at the hearing. “What I haven’t heard is any solution to the violence problems in these communities.”
City Council Member Peter Vallone Jr. said the number of black and Hispanic men stopped is justified because a majority of shootings in New York take place in minority communities. “Stop, question and frisk” takes about 800 guns a year off the streets, he said.
“We’re trying to get that gun before the shooting happens,” he said.
But Council member Jumaane Williams said "stop, question and frisk” is not achieving its goals. While the number of police stops has gone up during the past two years, there hasn’t been a corresponding drop in the number of shootings in New York.
“Communities are losing trust with the police, which is one of the biggest crime fighting tools that we have,” Williams said.
Delores Jones-Brown, a professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice at the City University of New York, said the majority of people who are stopped are black, followed by Hispanics, then white people.
“Almost 90% of those stops do not result in an arrest or a summons being issued,” she said.
Jones Brown said that among the 10% of police stops that result in criminal charges, about 1% turn up a weapon.
“In the few cases where there are any arrests or summonses issued, we’re not finding weapons,” Jones-Brown said. “That means that innocent people who are primarily black and brown are being swept up in this policy as opposed to the object of the policy, which is to detect the guilty.
“Apparently the department is doing a very poor job of that.”
Toure said the policy is doing more harm than good.
“If you were to gain any benefit from the small amount of hand guns that you got off the street, you’re erasing that by the amount of mistrust, the amount of disharmony that is created in the community with that policy,” Toure said.
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If there is truly nothing to hide, then the public would be aloud access to prison & police department cameras so the public knows there family & friends are being treated right! if police & government were well regulated, then the people wouldn't have to worry about being pulled over by a fake cop to be robbed! if the police & government were more organized, buissnesses woould not be getting away with harrassment, theft, ethical discrim, racial discrim, defremation & breaking company policies by thretening employees with termination if they don't serve you old food! companies & goverment have employees sign agreements so they never say anything negative twords the company or they can be sued, but the employees also give up their right to due proccess on that contract, so the company can sue you & you can't sue them! cops will be able to trust the people when the people know they can trust all cops!
U.S. history shows hundreds of thousands of police, military & government personel have commited & got away with horrible crimes twords others,. i'm willing to bet if ever person & property were searched, there would be more whites in prison than any other race. as ethical & racial discrimination continue to rise today without any discernable help from states or government, the human right to revolt with equal force can be upheld by the people. why don't you get a min wage job & find out first hand the ethical & racial discrimination allowed by buisnesses, the police & government. i believe there are too few buisnesses, cops & government personel willing to do the right thing while there are corrupt personel above them!
Overlay this issue with the recent Supreme Court decision (it was the usual 5-4 decision) that supports the police detaining you (called jail), strip seaching you at any time for essentially any reason. For all of those here who seem to think as long as you're doing nothing, the police are OK and can stop and frisk (search you – remember the 4th amendment) when ever they want, think again. Wait until it happens to you. Oh yeah, don't forget the Patriot Act – allows them to search your home, tap your phone, email....This is POLICE STATE tactics. All because of what reason again?
That said, there is an element of crime that must be dealt with. But I don't think this policy is the answer, Unfortunately a large percentage of those committing the crimes are african american males. But really it goes to a deeper issue. We have to stop the policy of lockem up and throw away the key. We need to focus on rehabilitation and working with employers to give non violent offenders a chance at a job. They make one mistake and become branded for life. Nobody wants to hire them after that. Then the revolving door begins. America has some serious issues and no one with the political will or courage to solve them.
America is the greatest nation on earth but for the racist ways it has treated and continues to treat it's citizens of color. America continues to promote these racist policies. It pains me to think that we are still having racial discussions 48 or so years after the civil rights movement. When anyone of stature speaks up, they are accused by the white establishment of dividing America. America has always been divided and until we truly embrace racial harmony and equal justice for all, we will always be divided.
In california people just started shooting at cops that over step their boundries. that got them to back off & let people live their lives. the moment the police come thru your neighborhood with loaded weapons , they are a threat to the saftey of others. enforcing my right to privacy does not mean i may be guilty of a crime. either way you do not have to do anything a cop says if they will not give you thier badge number & allow you to check their officer status, that is a federal mandate that has been around for a long time. a police department can't be faked & neither can a real badge number confirmed by a police department. i'll trust a good cop to allow me to stand up for my rights but there are too many bad cops & that does prove the police are not as well organized or regulated as long as bad cops are allowed to continue their illegal activities. i guess their gonna have to learn the hard way, the day they get shot at as their driving down the road is the day they'll realize they are no longer trusted
This will all be declared perfectly legal by our militant Supreme Court on a 5-4 decision. This practice needs to change and the Supreme Court needs to be abolished. It's nothing more than a bunch of polticians in robes.
already has been upheld, in a case from the late 1960's.
Terry v. Ohio, 392 US 1 (1968)
it would only bother me if I were carrying something illegal.
Look at how the police leave people alone in Seattle, WA. Your allowed to have pot on you as its a cash cow for the state. These archaic NYC so called police should spend time going after criminals NOT the public walking down the street. The people of NYC and this country should march and protest to end this. This is AMERICA and you wonder why people HATE the police...now you know why.
Yes NYC and and Seattle are so similiar????
Any attempts by Authorities to stop or eliminate BLACK VIOLENT CRIMINAL acivity will be responded by thats RACIST ! Its a lame ancient excuse that nobody listens to.
To all in favor of Stop, Frisk & Search. PLEASE READ THIS. ITS CALLED THE FOURTH AMENDMENT: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Additionally, if the NYPD stop, frisk & search people and they find drugs, you are arrested because possession of illegal drugs is a crime. If that is the case, I would like to see all of midtown Manhattan, Wall Street, Upper East Side, Upper Westside, get stop, frisked and searched and I can guarantee you that they will find tons of drugs from Cocaine, Weed, Exctasy, Meth, PCP, Heroin among other drugs not mentioned here. So if using drugs is a crime and this policy is deemed legal, then it should be implemented city wide; not only in the hood. The tools available to law enforcement are many, they should use (the legal ones) them and start working instead of violating people's rights in order to do their job.
Its not "racial profiling" if it is based on facts.
If blacks feel they are being targeted, then maybe, just maybe, blacks need to stop committing a disproportionate number of the crimes.
unemployment = crime , its a vicious circle.
About time they target troublemakers and give them no peace. Were I live we do the same thing with Republicans. Republicans have a totally disproportionate amount of trouble making and they always cause common folk problems. If you have a fancy car here – you get stopped. If you ha e a GOP sticker – you get stripped searched by Bubba.
Josh your comment is truly unintelligible.
Assuming you're a law abiding citizen how would you feel about being stopped and hassled by the police just because of how you look? I bet you wouldn't like it huh?
Same deal here. No law abiding citizen appreciates being stopped and hassled by the police for no reason beyond their appearance. What's that quote about people that give up freedom in exchange for security and deserve neither?
Sadly this country is full of scared people.
but the argument is that black people need to be frisked because they are a risk to themselves. that's not a justification for imposing a police-state on them, or anybody else.
@idontcareanymore – Really ? Don't glaze over the true issue here – I am saying the tactics utilized here are based on authoritarianism – If you gain the respect of the people instead of the fear or the people – Its a win win . Doing your job does not necessarily equate to the blind following of laws that are infringing on everyone's civil liberties . Serve and Protect does not equate to STOP AND SEARCH – especially when enforcement is left up to one officers discretion . Are you too blind to see what has been occurring at all of the occupy movements ? JUST SAYING ! it is not only happening minorities . The America I know has turned in to a POLICE STATE , run by corruption and fear
America is a police state now? I didn't know. Let me write it down.
The criminals who live in these neighborhoods and pray on citizens are not concerned with trusting or respecting the police. In your world you beleive the police should just be able to look at a person and tell if they are a criminal or citizen. It does not work like that. Cops often don't know whose who and since all these kids tend to dress like thugs, criminals and non criminal alike its not as easy and clean as you would like it to be. Police State because this is the first time you read about a thing called stop and frisk? Sorry, wrong answer. Stop and Frisk is not some sort of new escalation of government control, cops have been doing it for decades.
@ idontcareanymore No Not Wrong , I am calling it a police state because we see almost nightly on stations and sources that play the "real news" – The blatant disregard for citizens rights in full public view – and no punishment being doled out to the responsible parties – thus police state – do as I say not as I do, or risk arrest , pepper spray , being beaten with a baton , Kettled , arrested for walking down a street , and as the Gestapo before them No worry of retribution – That is why I call POLICE STATE – THE 4 th Ammendment Read up : The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
and "dressing like a thug " = profiling Zimmerman !
Very interesting post on here. I will throw this out there. I work in a field that deals with combating a number of risk and threats. I am one that feels "we" should not go out of our way to violate anyone rights in order to do our job. However, we are battling a number of threats out there. Gangs, thugs, drug deals gone bad, terrorist, sleepers and then your occasion crazy that is having a bad day. I find myself in public wondering just when I am going to come across the next deadly situation. I don't wear a uniform, work for a local jurisdiction, yet my role is to deal with the dangers just like everyone else. Sometimes, I think I'd rather be in the war zone. I find that safer. I'm better armed, have greater support, and at least know the face of my threat. The police, not so much. Same for you. Next time you are on the subway, bus, driving on the street or just walking in a crowd, can you identify the face of your threat? Sometimes to get a head of the crime, you have to prevent. Proactive verses reactive. If you are not doing anything wrong, packing a gun or posses anything that could get you in trouble, then you have nothing to worry about. I am Hispanic and if I were stopped, I would understand. Maybe because I am apart of a "security" that works on intell to get a head of the problem/threat, or maybe it's because I know that I will not be in trouble, but maybe, just maybe the next person they check, would have done something stupid and the police just prevented it. Maybe that person was about to walk into the bank I was heading to, or the train I was getting on, and about to use a gun. Sure I might be able to subdue, but then again, I might not. Do you really want to be in the situation, if it can be avoided. I have been in life threatening situations many times and have had the skills and gracious luck to get out alive. One day my skills will be rusty and my luck might run out. If this procedure helps to keep me out of danger or have to rely on my skills to deal with it, I'll except it. Face it, we live in a world where we have to take precautions. I will say that I don't feel a specific race should be targeted and that needs to be corrected. The face of a true threat could be any color. As a matter of fact, it could be the face you see in the mirror! Stay safe folks and good luck!
There has always been a balance in this Country. When I was younger it was illegal for any police officer to stop a pedestrian and demand ID (think papers). It was also illegal to demand ID from a passenger in a car that was stopped – or from passengers on a bus that has been stopped. All these personal liberties have been destroyed. We hear people saying that it is for our own good. Funny – that is exactly what a rising star in Germany said in 1937. What would your opinion be if it was determined that all firearms would have to be confiscated in order to thwart crime – easily accomplished now since they are all registered. Don't bother quoting the second amendment, just look up which amendment guaranteed our 'right' to privacy and illegal searches and seizures – now a smoking ruin. Things have gone too far.
Very interesting post on here. I will throw this out there. I work in a field that deals with combating a number of risk and threats. I am one that feels "we" should not go out of our way to violate anyone rights in order to do our job. However, we are battling a number of threats out there. Gangs, thugs, drug deals gone bad, terrorist, sleepers and then your occasion crazy that is having a bad day. I find myself in public wondering just when I am going to come across the next deadly situation. I don't wear a uniform, work for a local jurisdiction, yet my role is to deal with the dangers just like everyone else. Sometimes, I think I'd rather be in the war zone. I find that safer. I'm better armed, have greater support, and at least know the face of my threat. The police, not so much. Same for you. Next time you are on the subway, bus, driving on the street or just walking in a crowd, can you identify the face of your threat? Sometime to get a head of the crime, your have to prevent. Proactive verses reactive. If you are not doing anything wrong, packing a gun or posses anything that could get you in trouble, then you have nothing to worry about. I am Hispanic and if I were stopped, I would understand. Maybe because I am apart of a "security" that works on intell to get a head of the problem/threat, or maybe it's because I know that I will not be in trouble, but maybe, just maybe the next person they check, would have done something stupid and the police just prevented it. Maybe that person was about to walk into the bank I was heading to, or the train I was getting on, and about to use a gun. Sure I might be able to subdue, but then again, I might not. Do you really want to be in the situation, if it can be avoided. I have been in life threatening situations many times and have had the skills and gracious luck to get out alive. One day my skills will be rusty and might luck might run out. If this procedures helps to keep me out of danger or have to rely on my skills to deal with it, I'll except it. Face it, we live in a world where we have to take precautions. I will say that I don't feel a specific race should be targeted and that needs to be corrected. The face of a true threat could be any color. As a matter of fact, it could be the face you see in the mirror! Stay safe folks and good luck!
Folks, just to be clear: Stop and Frisk is not limited to the NYPD and its not a new practice. Goole Terry v. Ohio, which is a 1968 Supreme Court decision that help the police could condcut warrantless stop and limited searchs of persons in some situations. Its a practice that police agencies across the nation use every day. Not sure why CNN makes this appear to be some sort of practice unique to the NYPD.
Is it a perfect practice? Nope. Do innocent people get stopped and frisked? Yep. Do some cops abuse it? Sure do. When used correclty its a potential life saving tool for the line officer who often finds himself/herself alone with an armed and dangerous person. The problem is: good guys and bad guys often look and dress the same. Hard to figure out whos who.
Are you seriously trying to use logic and researchable fact in an online forum? Come on, man. By now you should know that people don't really feel this way... they just vent on here because no one can see them do it. The real people you have to worry about are the ones in the streets (like in the picture) protesting. They're the ones that need to be properly educated to make a viable decision based on fact and not emotion. Stop trying to change people's opinions on here with logic when they don't have one in the first place... it's makes them feel stupid. Live by your tag, man. I don't care any more either.
Btw, I've already tried your arguement, because I'm a police officer and felt it needed to be said. Do you how many replys I got? None.
I'm pretty sure we're protected from unreasonable search and seizure and if basically random search doesn't violate that right what does?
Just another case of a scared populace giving up rights to feel "safe"...
I think we should just have cameras all over the city. If your not doin g anything wrong then you have no worries. I think if 1 gun is pulled off the streets out of 10 million stops then justice is served. one innocent life spared is worth all the stops. If more crimes in certain neighborhoods then thats where the search should begin. You wouln't search for water in a desert you would go where there is water.
You place a very very low price on your liberties my friend. One potential gun out of 10 million stops? Given the fact that we are allowed to arm ourselves dispite the rediculous rules put in place to deny that right, that one gun that you sold 10 million individual rights to aquire is simply a sheepish way of life. Don't worry though, the govenment loves that way of thinking. However, just so you know, I do not agree with setting aside any of my rights as an indivisual so that they can find that one gun that makes you feel uncomfortable.
we need stricter government control because people cant control themselves.there are so many ways you,me,all are controlled but no one complains. e.g. why is not wearing a seatbelt a crime?many would say "it saves lives".cigarettes clearly kill millions of people yet that is legal.oh come now...you are controlled in so many ways that you dont even realize it.
I'm not sure of your point here. I do not like the controls applied to my eveyday life. I have always felt that there is way too much govenment interference in every aspect of our lives. Gun control is more of the same and it is simply prihibited by the second ammendment. Legislating around that is just simply wrong. Frisking citizens because you 'think' there might be cause? I believe that was covered under no 4 in the bill of rights...
and you not setting aside any of your rights as an individual makes you uncooperative in the further pursuit of law and order within the rights of the community.
If not for laws and enforcement of those laws, people would act out their desires and emotions unrestrained. Police officers and other government officials are human as well. If they are granted certain unrestricted powers and authority, they will abuse it given the level of control granted. This is due to their nature as human beings. There must be a balance of control enforced for police officers and those who are stopped. Since you advocate for government control, how much control do you want? Would you advocate for periodic searches of your home, if it will keep your neighborhood safe? I assume if people did nothing wrong, they should not object to a random home check by law enforcement, this includes pat-downs and going through personal items.
Stop and frisk makes sense in principle. However, in practice it is subject to the interpretation of police officers who may hold their own prejudices. There are those who think every able bodied black male is a criminal candidate, and for that innocent men suffer through unwarranted and degrading searches. How would you feel if the pigment of your skin "inferred" criminality? Most of you will never know because you have the privilege to be judged by your actions not your skintone.
For those who believe there is no other option. Let's take a stop back and look at a sensible answer, gun control.
Let's eliminate foolish exceptions.
Why are assault weapons available for purchase?
Why are background checks not required to purchase a gun at trade shows in some states?
Why isn't it mandatory to report a lost or stolen gone in some states?
Why does the NRA continue to reject laws that require new gun models to have fingerprint unlocks? The technology exists.
While some states have these legislations, they need to be enacted on a national level to prevent interstate drug trafficking.
If guns have a harder time getting into the hands of people with criminal intent. There will be fewer guns to get off the street. Innocent citizens are spared the invasion of their personal space and cops jobs become slightly less life threatening.
Why hasn't this happened yet? The answer is simple. Many ultra-Conservatives prefer to reject sensible regulation to their 2nd amendments, while nullifying the 4th amendment rights of minorities on a daily basis. Can't upset our NRA funders right?
There is one aspect of the case that you overlooked. The fact that black neighborhoods have the highest crime rate in the country determines the police activities there. It's not racism, it's reality.
Do you really think gun contol is an alternative? Think about it. The element that keeps you awake at night is comprised of people that thrive on ignoring the rules. Gun control will only keep the law abiding unarmed. As far as assult weapns goes...are you really that simple minded? It is only an assult weapon if you assult someone with it. You might not realize this but the term 'assult weapon' is a political term. Take out the politics and you are left with a rifle.
I agree with some of your points, but to try to equate an AR-15 with a plain old rifle is just not realistic. The description "assault rifle" or "assault weapon" is not just a 'political term' – its what the weapon was designed to do. I know, I have one and trust me, I would never confuse my AR-15 with a hunting rifle or my shotgun. The AR-15 takes a up to a 100 round clip and it is designed for rapid fire (particularly mine, because it has a 'bull barrel' hear sink to keep it accurate during heavy use). Unless you're looking to take down a few platoons of deer just standing around in all that noise waiting to be shot, there is no other use for this kind of firepower except against multiple human targets (well, maybe there are some ranges that use urban settings and mutiple targets, but they're just simulating human targets). Yes, I use it at the range, but ranges (at least here in NY) do not permit rapid fire, so there is no use at all for the 30, 40, 60, 100 round clips that these weapons were designed to take. It is, categorically, an "assault weapon".
Just another left wing liberal program forced on us by Cuomo, Hilliary, and Obama that is taking away our rights and freedoms.
Of course the NYPD officers would never abuse their authority, cover it up later, or lie to protect "brother" officers.
I'm a white overweight man who was walking from dinner to a play on Valentine day when I was stopped and searched they police confiscated my small pocket knife (legal size) and issued me a summons based on a law that forbids minors from displaying knives in public . I returned for court and the judge yelled at the prosacuter why is this man hereas he dismissed the summons I've been going to nyc since I was a.teenager but no more I'll spend my money elsewhere safe from nypd
IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE? WHY WORRY ABOUT IT ??? DURING THOSE STOPS POLICE SOMETIMES FIND DRUGS–ILLEGALS-WHICH IS O.K. BY ME...
The sheep has an opinion!
Then you should have no problem with the TSA pat downs.....
Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.
Probable cause means you match a description of an alleged criminal. Or your vehicle matches a description given by a victim. Until a crime has been committed and there is a complaint OR the cop sees you committing the crime himself
ask if you are being detained, what for and if you are free to go. Be certain you have audio recordings and if possible video. State the time and date repeatedly. The cops like to video us, it is time to return the favor. Consent to nothing.
Once Mirandized say nothing. It has worked for me every time and I'm a white guy in the midwest.
I will never let the cops harass me,period. It is unfortunate we need to go to such extremes but if you want to win know how to play the "game".
I get stopped and frisked everyday for no reason in bushwick brooklyn ,meanwhile these dopehead white people walk around like its llegal to buy drugs. ___ the Nypd knows whos doing what,but if they arrest the drug dealer they lose 50% of their arrest meaning the cops cant make their quota for the month...its a joke....
Give the minority people in this community what they want and let them live with it. Pull NYPD out of these areas. Make a policy where the police will only respond when a citizen calls them to respond. The cops will show up only when called, clean up the body on the ground, look for witnesses (you know know citizen is coming forward to cooperate) and then the cops will leave. No one gets stopped, no one gets frisked, no one gets questioned. Problem solved. Give that policy six months and these same outraged people will file suit against the NYPD, demanding they do more to stop the violence. It's a lose/lose situation for the police. These people are never satisfied and always want someone else to solve their problems so long as it does not incovenience them.
Personally, as a man of color, I would not want to be searched or questioned just because I'm in New York. What's funny about your comment is that when TSA implemented the new scanning/search procedures before boarding a plane, the vast majority of complaints came from Caucasian Americans saying it was too intrusive. But, if we were to lose another plane to a terrorist here on American soil then everyone would blame TSA for not doing their job. So in that instance, I guess we can't have it both ways either
@URFUNNY: If this posts twice, I apologize. Stop and Frisk is by no means a New York thing. Google Terry v. Ohio, which was decided by the Supreme Court in 1968. Cops across the nation used this practice every day and have so for years. I agree with you, you can't have it both ways. I fly frequently and as I am in federal service, I work with people of all races who fly frequently too. Most of us don't like TSA screenings but think of it as a necessary evil. Sure, I'd rather not be screened but what option do we put in place to ensure the safety of citizens if we eliminate the screening. So what is the answer? I don't know, I'm guessing you don't either. At the end of the day, its the police who are expected to deal with these age old issues.
@idontcare – Not saying that I have an answer, just saying that you were either one extreme or the other. I just pointed out that it happens in other parts of society and other people complain about it as well. I brought up the TSA thing and the complaints made by Caucasians as a point, not a problem. There were Congressmen complaining of the full body scanned because it was too intrusive although we all know it was placed there to prevent the unspeakable act of bringing down a plane. There were others that refused the scan as well but yet all we did was try and change the requirement of the full body scan. These folks in this neighborhood don't like the "stop, question, and frisk" approach and frankly, neither would I. And no, I don't have an alternative solution other than a "Minority Report" type approach, which proved fallible as well.
@idontcare – I too take flights regularly and the full body scan doesn't bother me. I consider it a necessary action that I have to do before boarding a plane. I'm not against the scan, just in case you had that thought. I prefer to be safer than sorrier after it's all said and done.
Are you for real...... Don't try and sell that " oh the poor police" " we are so misunderstood " BS here. right is right and wrong is wrong – and either you are right or wrong- it didn't hold any water in the Nuremberg trials and it doesn't here either " I'm Just doing my Job " Is no F%$ing excuse to abuse peoples rights ! All we ask is just do your job PROTECT and SERVE .
Not .......... HARASS and INTIMIDATE or BELITTLE and PREJUDGE.
@reality hater: Your response sums up the problem perfectly. First you say: Don't use that I'm just doing my job as an excuse. Then you say: Just do your job. It truly frames the problem in perfect context. You want the cops to fix the crime problem but you dont like the methods and yet you offer no tangible solution other then "just do your job". Its such a shallow baseless demand. Take a deep breath, calm down and put some serious thought into the matter. How do you solve the problem while continuing to keep faith with the citizens your sworn to protect. And trust, I don't ask that question lightly, nor do I have an answer. Its an age old dilemma that has taken place time and time again between police and citizens, soldiers and citizens all over the world.
I agree idontcareanymore... Population control. I think that if they want to kill each other, let them. There is NO win win with these groups. these groups are what is keeping a seperation between races. its a shame, those that are suppose to be standing in support of minorities are the ones that are hammering the wedge between us. If you dont like the laws that are created in this country or by the state in which you live, leave. There are plenty of other countries or states with different laws. One could even get lucky and relocate to a country where the police dont stop and frisk, they beat and kill. IF YOU DONT LIKE THE RULES OF THE GAME THEN QUIT. Best of luck.
Leave are you Fu$%#ing crazy – then THEY WIN . Population control what the hell are you talking about , did you actually read the news article or just skip down to the post my stupid nonsense section ? these are YOUR civil liberties as well !!! Oh I get it ..... you subscribe to the "it wont happen to me" mentality ? WAKE UP , Eventually it will happen to you or someone you know , then maybe you will be upset enough to STAND UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT AND DESPISE WHAT IS WRONG untill then BAAAH you F&^%ing sheep
I agree. If the blacks and Hispanics don't want police in their neighborhoods let's pull the officers out of those areas.
Well said! Seen it happen time and time again!
The Gestapo, during its tenure, operated without any restrictions by civil authority, meaning that its members could not be tried for any of their police practices. This unconditional authority added an elitist element to the Gestapo; its members knew that whatever actions they took, no consequences would arise.-–HMMM sound familiar ?
This happend alot in Germany in the late 30's as I recall. It was innocent enough in the beginning...so they thought.
Thomas Jefferson once wrote ”And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms….The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants”...
At some point we will all have enough. When that happens it will get ugly. God help my children,
Vehr are your Papers ?.... This tactic was also utilized in Germany circa 1940. What the hell is going on in this country ? Our civil liberties are being stolen from us by our own government – Even the Supreme Court has ruled you can be strip searched while being held for minor offenses- total and utter B.S. We went to War based on Lies told to us by a defector and bigger ones made up by our own government . Colin Powell stood there as Secretary of State and told us bold faced lies about mobile biological weapons labs mounted on semi trucks- -and our government then saw it fit to start chipping away at our rights :warrant-less wire tapping , warrant-less GPS tracking , no peaceful protests or you get arrested for trespassing – HOW MUCH MORE CAN YOU TAKE AWAY AND STILL CALL AMERICA THE HOME OF THE FREE?
As long as we remain brave (we are not now) it will remain the home of the free.
You Activist make some of the crazy comments. That guy was going to prison, the real problem was he was arrested for something he had already taken care of. When you go to Jail, you lose certian rights. That's why it not called a resort.
If these people weren't so stupid, they would give their ID to the police when stopped and simply refuse to allow any search or give them any information than what's legally required. You have no obligation to tell a cop where you have been or where you are going. I'm sure the problem occurs when you have warrants out for your arrest or you are driving illegally. Don't want problems with the police? Obey the law!
Sounds simple enough...except...African Americans and Hispanics won't receive the same kind of treatment from the police as whites. If either of these groups of people try to just "give the police their ID's" and refuse the rest of whatever they are being asked to do, they will more than likely be beaten and charged with resisting arrest. It's still not a level playing fieldl in America!
Cops are people too and just trying to do the job they are given. Respectfully decline consent for a search and and if he/she has a problem request a supervisor. If you feel threatend, call 911. Almost any police brutality (crime) I have ever heard of involved them having to chase someone down or someone is resisting arrest. There are a feb BAD cops out there but most are good people. I have had cops ask to search my vehicle on I-10 and I told them they are more than welcome to with a search warrant.
It's called a "Terry Stop and Frisk", it is based upon a Court decision in the case of Terry vs. Ohio. The court upheld that a law enforcement officer has the right for his own safety and the safety of those around him that he can stop, ID and "conduct a pat down for weapons" of anyone he has an "articulatable" reason for suspecting might be carrying a weapon. The US Supreme Court has upheld this decision many times. NYPD simply has to prove they were operating under the parameters set by the court./
I DON'T REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I WAS STOPPED BY COP..BUT IF THEY ASK TO SEARCH MY VEHICLE ? I WILL SAY NO..FORCE THEM TO GET A SEARCH WARRANT WHICH TAKES HOURS...AND GETTING A SEARCH WARRANT THEY HAVE TO HAVE A GOOD REASON AND A JUDGE IS NOT GOING TO GIVE A COP A SEARCH WARRANT FOR NO GOOD REASON...
There is something wrong with your keyboard.
Kind of depends where you are sir. I am in SW Florida. If you refuse an intrusive search during a normal traffic stop they threaten to call in a K-9 unit. If you say fine they get the dog to bark or whine, then they have probable cause. I watched this unfold right in front of me. The person in the car that was stopped then said the whole thing was BS and he was beaten and arrested for disobeying a lawful order. I learned that the judge threw out the case but the guys car was wrecked, he had to pay the towing and storage fees, and he was beaten up. He was Hispanic by the way.
The Gestapo did this, Stalin did this...sounds like the terrorists in New York aren't Muslim but do wear a police uniform.
The police have always done that. It's only been since the 60s or 70s that people have begun to question this.
Police officers are for organizing the rules of a county. So we need police officers for the rules and law.
Please visit http://www.toyarena.com
New Yorkers deserves that. WHY DO YOU ELECT AS MAYOR A MEMBER OF THE 1%?
BLOOMBERG GOT ELECTED BECAUSE THOSE WHO ARE COMPLAINING DO NOT VOTE.....IN NEW YORK A RICH FAT CAT SHOULDN'T GET ELECTED, BUT IF THE BLACKS–SPANISH DO NOT VOTE ?? RICH WHITE PEOPLE DO...IS HOW HE GOT ELECTED.
Your Caps Lock key got stuck.
WE LIVE IN A POLICE STATE. WE MUST PROTECT THE 1%. HOW DO YOU LIKE IT?
I HATE THE 1 % , THEY ARE EVIL PEOPLE...UNAMERICAN–ANTI-AMERICA.
instead of protesting think about protecting there is no race profling there have been more than half million searching
by nypd its not race issue and all races white black brown yellow green what ever color is checked so there is no need to bring race card in it police is protecting and doing excellient job
This isn't about the police doing their job. This is about the assault on civil liberties and pr-emotive strike. People have been blindly told to believe this is the best solution. Having a police state/ country isn't the way to solve crime, yet it allows politicians to claim they have solved it. Preventative medicine is the best solution, however; I am not sure people really want that. Our government prays to much on peoples fears.
Is it Mussolini's fascist Rome in the 1930s? No, it's GOP fascist NYC, USA in 2012.
Fascist societies do have a low crime rate. The question though is whether or not safety is worth giving up your freedom for.
1) You want to stop the frisking? Ask them if they have "probable cause", 4th Amendement. If they do not, sue, sue big, and sue some more.
2) You want to find the guns? Make it so there are no guns to find. Ban the little horrid human-killing machines. Join the rest of the civilized world.
So your saying only the criminals will have guns? Think about it?? London outlawed hand guns but it sure was not hard to have an active duty marine smuggle around 87 handguns there in a few years. Felons are not supposed to have guns but they do. Come on least let our hard working civilians carry a gun even if it only in there home to protect them from the felons or thugs who try to break in. Castle Doctrine is all we need!!!!
How is this policy different from probable cause?
The problem isn't that "people of color" are the ones accounting for the majority of the murders, but rather the NYPD, and most facets of the criminal justice system have been creating an environment through the "War on Drugs" where young, oppressed, minorities are labeled criminals, discriminated against legally, and then ushered back out into the world with no realistic opportunity for success, and we're all turning a blind eye to it. Perhaps if we focused our attention at helping rather than criminalizing minorities we wouldn't be stuck in this situation. Just because the players aren't using racial slurs and parading around in white robes doesn't mean this system isn't racist. I'm actually surprised there's not more violence.
But what about all the minorities that are successful. I don't know how in the world, with a Black President and Black Attorney General you can even consider that minorities are oppressed. In fact, with affirmative action, one could argue that whites are the people that are oppressed. Asians, have probably the lowest unemployment rate and highest income per capita in the US – higher on average than whites. So I just don't think that argument works anymore – it is just an excuse that doesn't hold much water. It is time we started taking responsibility for our own communities problems.
Your logic is flawed...
The President and Attorney General are African American and successful
I am African American
By your logic the conclusion should be I am successful...
Please don't hold up a couple of examples and apply it to the majority!
This is a country of equal opportunity. The arguement is that you, as a minority, have the capability to be successful in this country, not that you WILL be.
You keep electing governments and demand that they do more and more but somehow don't realize that, to do more and more for you, they must acquire the additional power to do more and more to you. That's the natural course of governments: growth, more power, less freedom for the populace. Did you actually think that you were going to get "good government". There is no such thing. Never has been, never will be.
"... it’s an effective tool that has contributed to a historically low murder rate in New York."
"... More often than not, the people stopped are black or Hispanic males..."
Call it what you want. There's a definite correlation here.
"Toure, who is black, lives in Brooklyn’s Bedford Stuyvesant neighborhood, a predominantly African-American section of the city ..."
Well, duh! If the majority of the people on the streets are African-American, why is anyone surprised that the majority of the people stopped are African-American. If you picked every tenth person at random, the majority would be African-American.
wow the people (minorities) that commit the most crime oppose any police action. We wonder why the ghettos are so dangerous.
I feel violated by this policy. I also worry that the cops will find my gun and stash of cocaine.
Obviously, there is a direct correlation between the success of the "stop and frisk" policy, the historically low crime rate in New York, and the involvement of blacks and hispanics. It's about calling a spade-a-spade...the crime rate numbers have clearly dropped with the implementation of the policy, which regardless of race, obviously has declined because the statistics show that blacks and hispanics clearly commit more crimes than white folks...well at least, more physical crimes.
The fact that a policy is effective does not make it moral. Mandatory abortions would be an effective solution to overpopulation. Are you okay with that policy, too?
If you have to stretch so far to make your point, then you really have no point at all..
Hell I think if you already have a set limit of kids then yes!!! Do you not realize that these ppl are just having kids for the money!!! When they file taxes they can only claim a certain amount of kids so the left overs get sold to there buddy's so they can claim them on there taxes. A friend of mine who has never worked a day in his life got a 3grand tax check by claiming other ppls kids and giving the mothers a %. Messed up system wouldn't you say?
frisking someone is not a matter of moral law. abortion, which kills an unborn child, is a matter of moral law because it relates to a death.frisking relates to preventing crime.
@maya. prime example of whats wrong with our country. Logic gets completely thrown at the window because a few peoples feelings get hurt. If you were to have mandatory abortions and birth control for people who are generational welfare recipients you could knock out that problem in a few generations. It absolutely makes sense. Why arent we doing it? All other "solutions" have involved throwing money at a problem, and what happens? You exacerbate the problem, you dont help it.
Lee, should walk a mile in someone else's shoes. Preferably someone who is black or hispanic. 700,00 thousand is more than a few.
Kelly, it's a slippery slope. It's not a stretch at all. At least one U.S state engaged in forced sterilization as recently as the 1970s. I, for one, think racial profiling is absurd. Statistics be damned. What's behind those numbers? No one can unequivocally state that blacks and hispanics are more prone to crime because of their race. It is far more complicated than that.
if i hear some one say, " if you not doing anything wrong you should not have to worry." BS we have rights black or white, an this policy is a clear violation of the 4th amendment right. once you say if it makes us safe its ok. well if thats the case they can just say everything is a safety issue.
From the article: "Proponents say it’s an effective tool that has contributed to a historically low murder rate in New York. Critics say it’s racial profiling. More often than not, the people stopped are black or Hispanic males, according to New York Police Department statistics."
Case dismissed...keep up the good work NYPD...frisk with impugnity...
Wow! And to think he libs went ape when Arizona wanted to pull people over and ask for proof of citizenship. Guess shredding Rights is okay in blue states, amiright?
If you are not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about. In a city of millions such as New York it is prudent to take on these measures to prevent another 9/11 or worse. I know as a former first defender. folks who complain have likely not lost a loved one because of a 9/11 style attack or worse..so they should really shut their mouth as far as I am concerned.
Then let everyone see everything you do. Let them watch your entire life. Give up all your privacy. Have no locks on anything.
Yeah, you're a hypocrite, aren't you.
Ogre12 – is not a hypocrite he is an idiot. I doubt he believes such simple drivel he just wants to get to folks that really care about America.
Kieth, such as those who don't care about all the young men of color that this policy has saved from a pointless death?
So let's just let them put cameras in our houses then. What the heck I have nothing to hide. Huh? Is that the approach we want to take?
This article is stupid... Officers just keep doing what you are doing! KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!!
Due process, unreasonable search, probable cause? These terms mean anything to you?
But how is this different from probable cause?
You aren't funny and you aren't smart
Exactly, and could not agree more!!!
I guess I am a glutton for punishment for reading these blogs but here we go. I know where I stand on issues, typically more conservative. However I get frustrated reading posts that bash everything, but provide no solutions whatsoever. Hate this program or not, but at least it is a plan! People rage when there is murder, or a terrorist attack, or whatever..so when someone does something like airport security or stop and frisk as a preventive measure they go crazy..so I ask those who are so much more "enlightened, educated, and progressive" than myself..what is your plan? Get rid of the police because there is corruption? Are you going to step up and do that job for $30,000 a year? Do we ban law and it's enforcement and become Mogadishu? I am open to suggestions because I want to be " sensitive and open-minded." give me a solution? How do you reduce violent crime? the truth is I am not a businessman so I have no clue how to run a business...how many of you ever put cuffs on a violent offender? How many of you have actually been shot at? How many of you ever went up against a determined terrorist? My point is most of you, myself included, have zero experience, but have such strong and hateful stances on something you know nothing about, but have only read in an article from the media ( which we all know is not biased)..again I ask you what is your solution, how do you think you can reduce violent crime in NYC if stop and frisking is not the way?
It is a program to harrass young people and who ever else the cop on the street decides he doesn't like. It does not stop crime.
yea because a historically low murder rate has nothing to do with less crime, oh wait. sounds like your'e afraid you will be searched and the police will find something illegal on you
@PaladinGB..Here's a solution...Much of the crime committed in America by minorities is drug related. Just legalize all of it! The so called "war on drugs" is a farce. We tried this during prohibition, and even then, bootleggers made millions on illegal alcohol sales. America finally woke up and decided this was a total failure and began taxing the legal sales of alcohol, which brought millions in revenue for the country. Why don't we apply this same philosophy to drugs? It's not as if alcohol isn't one of the worst drugs out. It cause millions of deaths each year through intake and accidents.
This country touts Capitalism as the best system in the world. Make money at any cost. When people of color try to make money the way the "bootleggers" did, now it's such a terrible thing. Just make the drugs legal and the consequences job related, as in you lose your job if you come up "hot" or found under the influence. Any job where the public interest is at stake requires drug testing on a regular basis. Bottom line, take the big money out of drugs and the crime will go way down!
You do bring a good point about legalization and issues such as being under the influence at work and such. I also feel there is too much regulation in a drug war that can't be won. A few points though..even in Amsterdam, the Govt in the last few years has really started cracking down on their own out of control drug problem. They realized that between the gangs and other organized crime, not enforcing the drug laws created a lot more social problems then they thought of. In fact the Red Light district is a lot smaller and controlled than it used to be. Another point, 80% of violent offenders behind bars committed those acts while under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs. So even though we alow alcohol, we cannot dismiss that legalizes drugs outright could spike the violence. Lastly, alcohol can absolutely cause people to freak out and get nasty, no doubt about it, but I have seen illegal drugs like coke, meth, heroin cause people commit a lot more crimes to support the habit than an alcoholic. So my point being legalizing everything to take the money out, may cause far more problems...
Isn't this "data mining?" Do those "stopped, questioned and frisked" have to give up their email addresses and Facebook passwords too? If this isn't done in every neighborhood, should it be done in any neighborhood?
It's done in neighborhoods based on the amount of violent and drug related crimes. I'll admit there is a racial slant to this action but where does the blame belonge for that? I guarantee the FBI, IRS and CIA are questioning more whites than blacks or hispanics. Is that racist?
Yes stop the stop and frisk. We already have 150 young black males being shot and killed every week in this country by stopping the stop and frisk and taking away their guns this number will shoot up to 200 a week being killed. Sharpton and Jackson won't care.
I was born and raised in NYC and remember when murders in the city where way over 1,500 a year in the 70's, 80's and early 90's. Basicaly NYC was unliveable and more people were leaving than coming in. Giuliani became mayor and started the whole "Stop and Frisk" strategy to go along with the "Broken Windows" theory of policing – now murders avg about 500 a yr – still too many but the strategy worked making NYC the safest big city in America. Those that complain seem to forget that the largest drops are in Harlem, Bed-Stuy, East NY & South Bronx, former war zones that now have some law & order. These neighborhoods are mostly comprosed of minorities, the same people who were getting slaughtered on the streets so for blacks or latinos to complain about stop & frisk is missing the point-those are the lives that are being saved – is it profiling? Yes – does it save lives? Yes. We don't live in a perfect world
I'm noticing no arguments to your points. Hmm. Funny how clear, objective thinking has a way of silencing the Rhederic.
Savings lives isn't the point. It is the negative impact on the community as a whole that is the problem. Besides it could be argued that all of those dead people from the 70 & 80s are responsible for the lower crime rates in NYC today. Honestly if the criminals off each other you end up with a better community by default.
So we are to let them molest others so you can feel safe? NO WAY! You do not have the right to demand that others have their rights violated just so you an feel safe.
Our civil liberties are gone and going faster. Most cops are corrupt and exit on early disability pensions.
They even have chip on my truck in case it is stolen; I'll rather them not have the chip; What if some dictator takes power and decides to track everyone down and imprison everyone?
then you will no longer be a paranoid. But until then...
That certainly seems to be a separate issue.
Police state? What a bunch of hypocrits.... We want the goverment to keep us safe and stop our kidsd from bullying each other, but we don't wnt to do anyof the things that make us safe. If you aren't doing anything rwong– you have nothing to fear.
I don't fear police because I didn't do something wrong; it's frustrating that you would get stopped because of the complexion or color of your skin; what are you suppose to do?
Because the police have NEVER made a mistake and arrested the wrong person, let alone pulled their guns and shot at an innocent person right? I mean innocent people are never falsely targeted and accused, right?
Try Telling that to half the police involed shooting victims. About half were completley innocent and most were unarmed. Read LVRJ.com
They don't keep us safe, what are hyou talking about? When trouble is only seconds away the cops are minutes away. The problem is when folks like you believe the lies about how they are keeping us safe.
You do NOT have to do anything wrong to be convicted of a felony in Oklahoma. I know because it happened to me. The DA here told the judge "your honor we know she did not use marijuana, had nothing to do with the marijuana, but it was in her house. Yes my grown son had thre ounces in his room, but I was convicted anyway. I lost my nursing license and did jail time even though I was not there. I was working sixty hours a week on 3-11 and 11-7 shifts.
This same argument can be had for video taping police offices – if your doing nothing wrong .......no worries right ?
No problem with legal guns. Game wardens walk up on groups of people carrying guns all the time.
Racial profiling? You have got to be kidding me.... Well, look at the national crime statsticsby demographic and tell us what ethnicities are committing the most crime?
So should we frisk White people before they enter a school since they seem to commit more school shootings? The answer is no and so should the answer be to stop and frisk.
The vast majority of investment bankers and stock brokers were white the last time I looked. What crimes are you speaking of? Possession of marijuana?
I work for the government, where several officers were stopped and frisked while off-duty in NYC. The last one was thrown to the ground before telling them he was a federal officer. When they found his gun, they beat him up. Only then while in the back of a squad car did they go through his wallet and find his badge. The tax payers of New York spent over 3 million to settle. Imagine how many time this happens to innocent young Black youth who have no voice, and who's only crime is being Black in a Black community?
NYC has literally become a police state since 911. It's a shame. The power elite control the majority with their goon squad, a/k/a the NYPD. They are an overfed group of monsters.
NYC cops are liars and criminals themselves. Just read the NY Post everyday there's one in the news for criminal acts.
The corrupt cops should have settlements be taken from their exploitive pension fund. Also, legislate for an end to collective bargaining for corrupt cop unions in NYC.
You and Jerry are just a couple of slanderous individuals aren't you?
No, Howie is right, police brutality is on the rise. They dress up for war every morning, in fact I wore less gear as a combat soldier, and their job is safer than being a farmer in America. Tell me why that makes sense.
This is a good reason not to visit New York
On the contrary, it is a GREAT REASON to visit NYC. Look at the violent crime statstics for NYC, thn compare it to LA, San Diego, or El Paso....be glad the cops and law enforcement are out there doing the dirty wor of keping your ungrateful selves safe.
El Paso was rated one of the safest cities for its size in the US, get your facts straight.
Cops lie, cheat, steal and commit just as many crimes as anyone .
Proof Jimmy, PROOF.
Proof????? If you could read the newspaper you would have more proof than anyone needs.
You must be one of those Cops.
Moncada, what do you expect. Mr. "Fr33th1nk3r" only knows that "El Paso" sure sounds Spanish and is near the Mexican border, and therefore must, just must be a crime-ridden hellhole. Please don't bust his nicely constructed discriminatory narrative with the fact that El Paso is predominantly liberal and Latino and extraordinarily safe. And they did it without imposing martial law or politically motivated profiling laws on their residents.
Bloomberg...wants to be the nanny for nyc. He can't even stick to a political party. Proves money can buy anything.
that's if you're black or hispanic
No it's not.
I'm thinking about moving out of the United States because I am seriously beginning to fear my own government.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.... Keep in mind– in this "police state" we live in, illegal immigrants get a freee lunch, education, and medical care. In other more civilized nations, they put you in prison for 10 years (see Bin Laden's wives) for being there illegally. Sometimes, the other side of the fence looks greener....
Sorry moving to Mexico, I can't hear you from the tranquil life I'll be living, the thermal springs that I'll enjoy and the friendly people there. And I have no fear of being profiled by anyone.
The place I describe can't be visited by people like you thankfully, only people that are kind and reasonable.
People that live there are Mexicans, Germans, Native Americans, French, and American, and no one profiles anyone.
Buh bye, enjoy the sewer, which is just what you deserve.
Where I'm going to there's mansions build by the Spanish at their arrival, lush green parks, clean rivers, lakes and a thermal spring, and with a life expectancy of 80 for males and 83 for females, a safe, clean place with friendly people...
Sure why not? Enjoy the US's low standards
Police ARE YOUR ENEMY.
I bet the "enemy" is the first number you call when some gang members break into your house in the midle of the night....
I sense that you're world view ends at the tip of your nose.
The first number I call is .45
Oh yeah...lol .... call the cops... so the fat slobs can come and write a report. How about.... be ready, locked and loaded, to defend yourself??? Its #America, not a nanny state, for the govt to babysit you.
This is the same logic as: Frisk White people before they enter a school because they seem to lead the nation in school shootings.
It's wrong on all sides.
If you love this act, wait until pre-cognitive arrests become policy. That's when police officers will magically become mind-readers and arrest people "before" they commit a crime. I've known some excellent cops and some bad ones - my old man, two uncles and now nephew - have been/are city cops - but all of these newer steps are absolutely chilling.
Somebody has been watching too many Hollywood movies....this is not Minority Report, geek. Come back to reality....
I find this so disheartening that so many people think that stopping and frisking without just cause is acceptable. People are so willing to give away their freedoms in the name of "safety".
1% of stop and frisks results in finding a weapon. If any test/program/measurable result had a 1% success rate we'd call that a failure. Why is this any different?
This is not making us safer, it is erroding our rights and freedoms.
“People are upset about being stopped, yet what is the answer?” Kelly asked at the hearing.
How about cops do their jobs? If cops made themselves part of communities instead of invading the rights of communities – you know actual police work, maybe he'd have better results.
Not true. 1% of 10%, i.e. 0.1% find a weapon.
A rhetorical question for the Chief; If Kelly was stopped and frisked in London just because of his Irish heritage would he like it?
So...saving 1% more lives is unacceptable to you? You arre not willing to giveup your right to walk the streets carrying guns in your pockets to ave a few lives? Liberals are so selfish....
How dumb for you to assume that all of those guns were going to be used to kill somebody.
Ur a cop and your swastika is showing. You sound like a fascist. No surprise, coming from a crooked cop. Wanna be like England? Give up your gun while on patrol, see how tough you really are.
Geez...what happened to the 4th Amendment!?
Government tore it up with the 10th
If the cops want to stop em and ask me a few questions without any real reason fine I'll deal with it ( I've dealt with it several times before) but for them to frisk me without any real reason is going way over board.
Also why do we have to turn this into a race issue, I'm white and I have been stopped by the cops for no reason plenty of times (driving and just walking) and had them ask me a bunch of questions that I chose not to answer. This stuff happens to a lot of people, blacks don't have a monopoly on police abusing there power. Just saying.
Is that a serious question? When 87% of the people stopped and frisked are Black and Latino, I don't care how many times you've been stopped if you're White. Take your experience and multiply it 10 fold. That's what minorities are dealing with.
After reading some of the comments on this board its obvious that:
A. Our country hasn't progressed very far
B. There seems to be a lot of hate and stereotyping of minorities more specifically of black ppl
Yet the President is constantly being accused of driving a wedge between the races in America go figure
Actually–I hate donuts and don't drink coffee. Tony, I get the impression you don't like police officers–but I'll bet they'd be the first people you would call if you needed help or someone stole your check.
Cops are just as likely to be crooks as anyone. One need only read the paper to find cops who, rape, rob, and even kill. They all lie.
I saw a cop on one occasion driving at least at 70mph when the speed limit was 45mph and he didn't have his lights on.
On another occasion I saw a cop driving in a residential area not make stops at all, he/she just drove on without even slowing down.
It's all over. People are stupid.
Would you enjoy beating a civilian with your "little nightstick?" That is the question.
Yeah, it's not like NYPD ever had problems with corruption or anything. I mean, it's not like Bernie Kerick was sent to prison for fraud, tax evasion, etc.
It's not like 13 NYPD officers were charged with corruption in October of last year right?
Exactly...... somebody can read.Kerik was head of corrections...lol and chief of police.....Hehe! Bet he's playing a different tune now...lol. caught in too many lies.... I rest my case.... ;-)
@Dave the cop;
What now? PROOF,PROOF
good cop -and bad cop? Or
Bad cop – worse cop?
Bernie only got caught because the feds looked him up. Vetting him for "Head of Homeland Security" what a joke. Put the punks in charge of security. That's ok for a city cop, but at least the feds still have some credibility.
I don't hate police officers I am afraid of them and no, I will never call one
what is the problem here. i would be ticked off if i had something to hide from the police too.
The excuse of "if you don't have anything to hide than you shouldn't mind" doesn't change the fact that police are abusing our rights. I have been stopped on the street several times by police for NO GOOD REASON and when they questioned me I practiced my right not to answer and when they realized I wasn't a moron and that I wouldn't let them trample my rights they just left me alone. Just because I don't have anything to hide doesn't mean I wan't the cops to be allowed to stop me whenever they please just because they feel like it.
Wow, the PD implemented a program that has helped lower homicide rates to historic lows. Since men of color are overwhemingly the victims in these homicides that means that many of them have been saved. Win win situation, but wait.. Race baiters are at work.. Overwhelming percentage of suspects and victims are men of color, men of color are being subjected to this program and it is working as lives are being saved.. But race baiters see an opportunity for publicity, which CNN is happy to provide, and off we go,,,,,
Kelly, I am not a race baiter, I am a cop hater. I dont' care what color they are
Evidently you are a hater of young men of color.. You want a very effective tool in controlling their tragic deaths discontinued?
Want this policy to end? Just say that it was Obama's idea. Then SOME of the white folk around here that are going on about "race card" crap would change their tune and go on about the Socialist Kenyan's implementation of communism right here in America. He and this policy would be the greatest threat to our way of life since Stalin, and we would have to hear about how they demand their country back. The cesspool of racism in this country hasn't been this large in quite some time. If I had a dime for every time I heard the N-word dropped on x-box live by rich white kids playing from their dorm rooms, I would be a wealthy man. I am amazed at the inability to empathize. But then again Obama praised empathy so it is inherently evil, or as a lot of the white community likes to call it these days, black.
Sorry for some of the minor typos.
Wait–if I am a police officer and work a predominantly white area of a city high crime–chances are I am going to make field contact with mostly whites and arrest mostly whites. Its relative to working Black neighborhood. However, because I would be a white officer working that Black neighborhood and stop mostly Blacks–somehow I am racist and profiling? Wow. Its funny how people want to be protected–as long as its on their terms. The police do too much–they're damned-too little–they're damned. And then when some little black child gets killed–everyone asks why didn't the police do more!!! People scream out that we live in a police state. Give me a break–you wanna see police state–go to any number of third world countries then come back and tell me what you think. Yes–some coppers out there are jerks–but not all of us are. If there were two bank robbers standing next to each other–one white one black–all I see is a bank robber–not a race. Give the cops a bit of a break and realize they don't have the easiest jobs. And for those who aren't cops but have plenty to suggest–why don't you apply, go to an academy and show us all how its done. It will be a rude awakening. If people weren't so quick to want to fight us, you would probably see a cohesiveness between the publice and police that is unprecedented.
Dunkin Donuts is where most cops hang out so if you're a minority, avoid that place like the plague. I suggest you hang out in the library where you never encounter a pig.
I am white and law-abiding. However, I have been given traffic tickets for offenses I did not commit. I have been stopped for just talking to other law-abiding people.
The police are not there to help me. They are there to harrass me. They make me sick. The DAs are there for power trips. They do what they do just because they can. There is no real logic.
I can only imagine what it must be like for someone who is on the radar for profiling.
Same here, I can't imagine driving while black or flying while muslim. And all this for what?
Strange, I have rather positive experience with police.
Criminals on the other hand got on my nerve many times.
Welll, John Q. Public. Count yourself fortunate you haven't been victimized yet. It is quite an unpleasant experience.
@jwilly22, I am home today – food poisoning. :(
The cops are just a bunch of lazy donut eating pigs. I'm hispanic and they harass me all the time just because I like to sit on my stoop and wait for the mailman to bring me my disability check.
The policy itself is not racial profiling but how it is handled just might be. There is also the issue of where the stops are taking place. If the violent areas being targeted are predominately black or hispanic then the majority of stops are going to have a racial component to them. It's just the way it is.
What needs to be looked at is this: Is the policy affective? Had violent crime been reduced?
The pretense of reducing crime is not a reason to harrass innocent people.
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