By Moni Basu, CNN
(CNN) - Writer Mark Trahant guessed the situation was a first: campaign jabs that centered on a candidate's claim of Native American roots.
He was referring to the Senate race in Massachusetts that pits Harvard University law professor Elizabeth Warren against Republican Sen. Scott Brown.
There are many issues of contention in this hotly contested race, but one of them has become Warren's claim to Native American ancestry. After Brown accused her of taking advantage of minority status, Warren fired back in an ad that came out Monday.
"As a kid, I never asked my mom for documentation when she talked about our Native American heritage," Warren says in the spot. "What kid would? But I knew my father's family didn't like that she was part Cherokee and part Delaware, so they had to elope.
"Let me be clear: I never asked for or never got any benefit because of my heritage," she continues, addressing the central concern that Brown has brought up on the campaign trail and at the candidates' first debate last week. "The people who hired me have all said they didn't even know about it."
It's a bit more complicated, said Trahant, a member of the Shoshone-Bannock Tribes.
"The usual standard is citizenship, being a member of a tribe. Elizabeth Warren does not meet that test," he said.
Who's Native American? It's complicated
"It's not right that she would use her self-recalled heritage for any academic advancement ... even if there are no academic standards that define who is legally a Native American (except the citizenship issue). On the other hand, when you see videos like this one, you cringe."
He was referring to a video that shows Brown staffers chanting war whoops and gesturing Tomahawk chops. It was posted Tuesday on YouTube by the liberal blog Blue Mass Group.
"I think Sen. Brown has some explaining to do about the nice guy, respectful tone that he sets in his office, and on his campaign," the blog said. "And maybe we can put this whole preposterous issue to bed once and for all."
Brown responded to CNN affiliate WCVB in Boston.
"It is certainly something that I don't condone," he said. "The real offense is that (Warren) said she was white and then checked the box saying she is Native American, and then she changed her profile in the law directory once she made her tenure."
The National Congress of American Indians said it was troublesome that Brown's staff members acted in such fashion. The rights organization urged Brown to take action.
It also blamed Warren was responsible for failing to speak up.
"She has every right to be proud of her family," the organization said. "However her campaign failed to educate a non-Native media and the public unfamiliar with federal tribal enrollment rules or about historic federal policies that make proving Native ancestry very difficult for some people."
Also at issue was Brown's reference during a televised debate to Warren's white skin color as proof that she was not Native American.
"Skin color or physical appearance has no bearing on one’s Native American heritage or status as an enrolled member of a federally recognized tribe," the national congress said. "As a result, numerous national television programs and websites have irresponsibly echoed Senator Brown’s statements by referring to someone’s skin color as an indicator for Native American identity. These claims are false and Senator Brown should correct the record and retract his statement immediately."
Elizabeth Warren vs. Scott Brown: Priciest race this year
The debate about Warren has gone on since May, when Warren confirmed that she had described herself in faculty directories as having Native American blood. She said she did it to meet others like her.
But her explanation didn't sit well in some corners.
A website called Cherokees Demand Truth From Elizabeth Warren says Americans ought to care deeply about such claims.
"America should care because they care when someone falsely claims to be a decorated military veteran. They care when someone falsely claims to be a recovering drug addict in a book passed off as the truth. And they care when someone falsely claims to be a survivor of the Jewish Holocaust. America cares about these things because America cares about integrity, honesty and fair treatment.
"Elizabeth Warren has not just stolen an ethnic identity that does not belong to her, but she has also personally benefited from it and harmed the integrity of the American ethos of advancement based on quality of work, not color of skin."
The New England Historic Genealogical Society provided initial research that shows several members of Warren's maternal family claiming Cherokee heritage. Warren's great-great-great grandmother O.C. Sarah Smith, is said to be described as Cherokee in an 1894 marriage license application. The genealogical society gathered that information through a 2006 family newsletter and said the original application cannot be located.
Warren's critics were out in force Tuesday on Twitter, including the editor of the conservative Red Alerts Politics website.
When you have to release an ad explaining why you think you're a Native American, it's not good: shar.es/uMixg— Francesca Chambers (@fran_chambers) September 25, 2012
When you have to release an ad explaining why you think you're a Native American, it's not good: shar.es/uMixg
Blogger Donny Furguson posted:
.@DLoesch If Elizabeth Warren can fake four more identities she'll start touring as The Village People— Donny Ferguson (@DonnyFerguson) September 25, 2012
.@DLoesch If Elizabeth Warren can fake four more identities she'll start touring as The Village People
But Warren was not without her supporters.
Seroe Michaud commented on Native News Network's page:
"Good for you Elizabeth, I am 1/8 Blackfoot but am fair skinned and light haired, I am the only light one in the family. If like me your blood is part native on your mother's side and your heart is walking the red road, we will not be driven into the shadows. I hope that you win, you had my vote before I learned of your roots."
As Trahant said, it's complicated.
What makes someone "legitimately" Native American? And who gets to make the call? Our blog attempted to answer those questions when the Warren controversy erupted.
Julia Good Fox, professor of American Indian studies at Haskell Indian Nations University, said there's plenty of ignorance around Native American citizenship.
"It's all in past-tense, and we don’t get a sense of what an Indian today looks like," she said in May.
And that, she said, can be confusing.
Quite honestly, I don't see how it's anyone's business that she is or isn't Native American. SHE didn't bring it into the campaign, Brown did. If he can't campaign on the issues and his own record, then fine, but bringing up her heritage is way out of bounds. It's simply none of his business and has nothing to do with anything.
Tribes have a way of determining who is and isn't a member of the tribe. You must have a certain amount of Native American heritage to get minority status and tribal benefits. Heritage isn't determined by what relatives recall.. However, it can be determined by a blood test. Ms Warren should be willing to prove that she is actually Native American, otherwise she is simply creating a fraudulent history for herself to get tribal status and minority benefits.
Ok, so all who ever were wrong or lied about anything related to their families are disqualified? I see the rooms emptying now. Guess you people didn't read the article. IT SAYS that from research it seems she is TELLING THE TRUTH!!! So back off and go attack someone else you don't like. Rubio, anyone? the list could go on, but she wasn't lying, and if to the best of her knowledge she had the heritage okay, then. She was hired because of her credentials, intelligence, and experience, and no matter how hard you try to pretend something else that is reality.
Holy moly, try all you want, but she is a legitimate candidate and they should be
Mommy, the point is that she lied on her applications and took benefited from it. She obviously knew she was lying because she changed her profile. Tis woman has no personal integrity whatsoever so she should make an outstanding democrat so be sure to vote her in…
But the point is she didn't lie. You are just plain wrong. So you don't like her or her politics? Fine. But this is silly and just a distraction from the real issues. You have no clue what her heritage is and probably not totally about your own, since most of us hear what family stories are and assume.
The Cherokee Nation is the only tribe that does not discrimate against blood quantum. Someone can be 1/562 Cherokee and still have their BIA card. Ms. Warren may want to look into the Native descendant of her great-grandmother who who lived during the early 1930's when America registered every Indian and did a National sweep to identify blood quantum. I'm about the lightest quarter-breed you will come across and my name is VERY Jewish because of my father, but like Ms. Warren, it's not the idea of looking Native, it's the pride one has to identify themselves and know their heritage.
Scott Brown is a joke who does not represent policies that the vast majority of MA voters would agree with. This "controversy" is nothing but a disgraceful attempt on his campaign's part to distract from actual issues. She did not "use her heritage" to advance her career in any way – there is ample evidence of that. The geneological records even prove that her family is part Cherokee. Why is this still being discussed????
If the overwhelming majority of voters do not share Brown's policy positions...how did he win?
then why did he get votted in the first place and why is he going to get votted in again in Nov.?
Because he was running against Martha Coakley, who ran what may have been one of the worst political campaigns in history, and most of the people who turned out to vote were old white men who were still angry about Obama being elected. Brown ran as "indepedent-minded" and then proceeded to toe the Republican party line in just about every vote. He can't run on his record, so he beats this "heritage" non-issue like a dead horse, hoping that enough people won't pay attention enough to realize that it says way more about his character than it does about Warren's.
There's a disturbing tendency for politicians to say anything to an audience, because people have a short attention span. The politician has no need to prove anything or justify false claims later.
What I find disturbing is the thinking you can tell if a person is Native American based on looks. That is crap plain and simple. I'm 3/8 Alaskan Native and I have brown skin. My sister is the same and she looks White. One of my good friends who is 1/2 Alaskan Native is White with blond hair and blue eyes. And I even dated a girl who looked White was 5/8 Native.
If beating someone on this issue is how the GOP does business then I feel bad for the people of Massachusetts. They are always accusing Obama of going off topic well how about Brown?
It's only okay if they are doing it, remember?:)
Let's play Devil's Advocate:
If someone with Native American ancestors has to be a citizen of a tribe to claim to be a Native American, does that mean someone with African ancestry has to be a citizen of an African country to claim to be an African-American?
Well said! There are a lot of people with Native American blood that are not enrolled members of a Tribe. Also, a person can have more than one tribal affliation (Blackfeet and Sioux) but can be enrolled in only one Tribe – does that make him not belong to the other Tribe? In this country's not so distant past, Native Americans were punished and looked down upon and some chose to disclaim their tribal heritage to protect themselves, I'm happy to see someone take claim of their Native American blood. It is complicated. I believe Elizabeth's Native heritage shows in her appearance, she is beautiful.
She's an idiot elitist. if you have a heritage that you have memories of like – living on the reservation, going to the Sun Dance, pow wow's, that's heritage. Just saying that somewhere 100 years ago, 32 times rmoved there was a part Native America that married into the family....... give me a break. She lied and did it for some sort of advancement or privelege. The Cherokee nation should be insulted by her lack of respect for them.
It's an issue of credibility.
Has she ever applied for a position or filled out forms indicating that she has Native American heritage? Did she receive any benefit from such a claim? Is she basing that claim solely on verbal family rumors? Then what other rumors is she presenting as fact?
My own mother says that one of her great-great-grandmothers was Native American based on a picture she saw. But, I won't claim that heritage without some objective evidence.
"Has she ever applied for a position or filled out forms indicating that she has Native American heritage? Did she receive any benefit from such a claim?"
The answer to both questions is NO. So if you are being honest, you should have no issues with her credibility. If you still have a problem with her, then the issue obviously must be something else.
Hiring based on ethnicity and race is illegal. It DOES work both ways...you can't discriminate against minorities, and you can't give them special treatment, either. Think I'm wrong? Prove it.
You can't discriminate against minorities and you can't give special treatment huh...... so what do you call affirmative action then? That's special treatment, get your facts straight
What I have been trying to explain is that most people are completely misinformed about that. I'm sorry, but you're wrong. It doesn't happen.
DB – yes they do. I live on a reservation, scholarships, jobs, etc. are given priority to enrolled members.
Sounds like the Senator can't win on the issues or his record, so lets cover up by throwing some mud. Its the American way.
It's the Republican Party way!
so right...i was appalled when Brown accused Warren of murder....oh...wait....that was Obama campaign.
I am not a MA voter but if Warren used questionable lineage to get a Harvard job...at a time when Harvard desperately wanted to diversify...then deleted any reference to that lineage after landing the job...then it is fair to raise it. For MA voters the larger issues seem to be abject hypocrisy? She portends to be against millionaires...yet is worth a reported $15M...she weeps for the foreclosed family..yet invests in foreclosed properties to turn a buck off the misfortunes of others...she proudly claims that she is the brains behind Occupy...a "movement" that is openly anarchistic, seeking to tear down the U.S. while engaging in (mostly) unsolved crimes against property and women?...and now a general comment about Mass...i spent some time recently in Boston and Nantucket on vacation...it struck me as odd that a state that is the epicenter of the rebellion against government tyranny and overreach is now THE most big government, pro-overeach state we have...the irony of watching a Boston Tea Party reenactment while surrounded by Obama and Warren stickers was almost comical.
Don't you get it? She DIDN'T use it to get a job! Her lineage is irrelevent and none of your business because she did not use it for personal gain. Your belief that employers give special treatment to minorities is 100% wrong. It DOESN'T HAPPEN. It's ILLEGAL. I know that "everybody knows" that's what affirmative action is, but everybody is wrong!
It's not fair game to subject anybody to this kind of outrageous "you don't LOOK like a minority to me" garbage. If you did it to me I would bash your face in.
@DB I'd love to see you try to bash someone's face in, you weak vegan liberal poooosy. She did use it to her advantage, you have no way of knowing that she didn't other than your flawed liberal ideology pushing your flawed logic. Especially as a professor, claiming to be Native American fast tracked her to tenure. Not to mention, we can't even begin to assess whether she put it on applications in the past. She's a phony, just like you.
Uh, no...I know that she didn't use it to her advantage based on my understanding of hiring practices and employment law, and those laws are rather clear: you can't give special treatment to minorities in hiring. These are facts, political ideology has nothing to do with it.
Pfff, you think you're impressing anybody with your tough guy act? Grow up, son. We're done now.
DB, when you think all the other cars on the highway are going in the wrong direction except for you, You may want to rethink your position.
And for God's sake, pull over.
Seriously? You lost all support at "I'd bash your face in".
Fillo, give yourself a pat on the back for the clever line, but being witty won't make you right. Everything you think you know about affirmative action is wrong. What more can I tell you in an internet forum? I certainly can't teach you an entire semester's worth of Human Resources Administration here. Don't take my word for it, GO LOOK IT UP. It's illegal to give special treatment to minorities and it doesn't happen. Do some research on the caselaw and you'll see I'm right, and you'll be amazed to discover that almost everybody in America is arguing about the wrong thing when it comes to that issue.
DB, you should never try and teach anyone anything based on what you've just written.
Your basic argument seems to be that because it is illegal it doesn't happen.
Stop the presses!! according to professor DB, we have no murder, robbery, rape or any other illegal activity because, after all it's against the law. You have a seriously flawed thought process.
Her grandmaw must have told her she is part Indian. In Texas grandma usually names the tribe. Okies don't consider 1/32 a big deal and It's tribes don't reconize that small amount. Whatever works, huh?
CNN and the rest of the liberal media whole heartedly believe this is a non issue, because not only does it make one of their candidates look bad, but it hurts the whole liberal philosophy of affirmative action. My dental school applications will now read I'm party Native American, is that wrong?
Way to go Jay. Totally agree with you. This has to stop. Affirmative action must be tempered or eliminated. Also, it's ok to be liberal or conservative, but you need to be mature enough to police yourself. Use your head and don't rely on the CNN's NBCs, ABCs of this world to form your opinion on the biggest liar and hack job of a president we have ever had.
That's right! Be "mature enough to police yourself"... now you go right on down to your local GOP, race-hating party, and get ALL your old talking points directly from a TRUE SOURCE...
Can you read???? It says in the article research DOES show she is apparently right and so your whole premise is wrong.
And who cares if she has money? It is what she stands for and how she lives that matters, and she didn't use that heritage to get her job. What a crock of nonsense.
She is about as Native American as my pet skunk...
Skunks are only native to North America. And are great pets!
Skunks are native to america. Apparently, so are morons like you.
I have a pet skunk too and she has more sense than any of these politicians.
Come on CNN. Old News. And yes she did benefit from claiming she was "native american". Do a little more research everyone. Oh and I found out that Im 1/8 English Royalty. Maybe I can get some perks. Cool. I was wondering why the paparazzi was out front of my home taking pictures as I as mowing the lawn, Without my shirt on. Hope they got a good shot of my beer belly. And my man boobs.
She's learning from Harry Ried just make things up.
This is the kind of thing you focus on when you have nothing of substance to say.
Actually, the issue is easy to resolve. If E. Warren is native over maternal lineage, analysis of mitochondrial DNA, which is inherited maternaly will decidedly prove it. However, I do not believe that her ancestry is a legitimate campaighn issue.
Yes, mtDNA could prove her claim, but couldn't disprove her claim. For instance, mtDNA sampling shows that 85% of Mexicans have a maternal line of Amerind descent. That doesn't mean that the other 15% have no Amerind ancestor. But there are other snippets of DNA that an experienced population geneticist could look for to prove Amerind ancestry.
What about lying selectively in public settings to unfairly benefit oneself? Is that a legitimate campaign issue?
NO! We ALL know that politicians LIE as soon as their mouth opens...
Except that the article says the research DID show she has what she said. So your whole argument is wrong.
I really want to see Dana Carvey doing an imitation of her on SNL. It won't be far off from the Church Lady since Warren and the Church lady are almost twins.
The fact the Cherokees are calling her out on this claim tells me something isn't right. She claimed at one point to being "3 % Cherokee". Why does someone tout this but ignores the other 97 % other than to pander to the left? It has to be galling to anyone who is Native American or grew up in a Native American culture.
The left chooses their outrage very predictably. If the situation were reversed, CNN would headline this story daily.
Your premise that the situation would ever even be reversed is patently absurd. Elizabeth Warren and her supporters would never launch such a racist attack to begin with.
@DB There the left goes again, making things up to support their narrative....
Who made anything up? You're the one who imagined a hypothetical scenario and then complained about how you predicted certain parties would react to that hypothetical scenario. Don't try to put that on me, kid!
The right – those folks who believe in angels – NEVER LIE...
Scott Brown is clearly an expert on American Indians, he has stated as much. " Professor Warren has suggested that she is native American Indian, look at her she is white, you can tell she is not an Injun." So clealry Brown can tell American Indians by looking at them. What does America expect Warren to do, show up in an authentic American Indian outfit to prove that she is an Indian? I believe Scott Brown, he looks like he can tell real Indians from unreal Indians. He just looks like he has the kind of special powers that Republicans like Todd Akin have, that just know things about the universe that the rest of just don't know. I still want Warren to win even if she is not an Indian and that is because I have a special talent to, I can tell if someone is an American Fraud and clearly Scott Brown is. I'll choose Elizabeth Warren any day of the week.
Clearly, Scott Brown is the WILLARD Romney of MA... you poor fine folks in MA!
The problem in Warren's case is that her family ties to any tribe appear to have been broken. So, she is no more native american than a "african American's" are Angolans.
But maybe she is trying to form her own Diaspora movement.... In any case, people should cut her some slack. I don't think she was ever an "affirmative action" hire...
A debate about real issues would be a lot to ask
The debate here is about her saying she was Indian and using that to get ahead in life. You know, taking advantage of minority programs and using here supposed heritage as a means to trounce someone else for a position or opportunity.
This is about integrity. Would you hire someone if you knew they were lying to get ahead? I didn't think so.
How do you know she's lying?
How can you tell if she's Native American or not?
Are you accusing the people who hired her of lying as well?
They apparently didn't have a problem with hiring YOU...
But there is no evidence she did lie, so you are way off here. How does it make sense she would get jumped on for this, which has been shown to be false anyway, when Mr. Romney HAS lied about what's in his taxes and still insists everything is fine and we shouldn't see any more of his. Or Rubio? Was he wrong about his family or did he lie on purpose?
Issues...she wasn't lying so move on. Mr. Brown's comments were idiotic and offensive, and they show he knows he is in trouble. Tasteless. Topics at hand, now who her great-great grandmother is.
If you ever make a statement that you can't prove, then everything that you say after that must be lies and nobody should ever hire you for any job. You are a marked person and unfit to contribute to society.
"If you ever make a statement that you can't prove, then everything that you say after that must be lies and nobody should ever hire you for any job. You are a marked person and unfit to contribute to society."
You mean like most of the things Mitt Romney has said?
"Warren's great-great-great grandmother O.C. Sarah Smith, is said to be described as Cherokee in an 1894 marriage license application."
Read the article before you comment.
That is cute but silly. No one can prove every single thing they say. Are you holding Mr. Brown to this standard as well?
And she wasn't lying, but guess you don't want to see that.
I sympathize on this issue. I have always been told that my great grandfather was full-blooded Native American. However, we have no link, no details to this and it would be impossible to prove. We aren't even completely sure which tribe. So, if we assume for a moment this heritage is true, I have never enjoyed any benefit from it, much less had an opportunity to connect to that part of my past. I still tell people of this heritage if ancestry comes up in conversation, because I believe it to be true, and I believe my claim to be harmless. I refuse to deny the beliefs of my family because I can't prove them, but I also do not expect anyone to simply accept the claims either. It's a difficult position to be in, and quite frankly, many people who have and can prove Native American roots are fortunate to have that luxury IMO and should not look down their nose at people such as myself. It's not my fault I don't have more information.
Rich – well stated. For so many years, people hid their Native American ancestry (as did many people of color). I lived in Oklahoma for 8 years and met many people there who were overtly proud of their NA heritage – some looked more like Norwegians. Many could not prove the heritage because of previous generations hiding it. I've always been told of being Scot-Welsh and am proud of that heritage. It doesn't make me any less proud of being an American. I love the diversity and the inclusion of all backgrounds.
You should head over to your local Mormon Church that has a family history center. You do not have to be a church member. Do some genealogy research. Getting copies of vital records, and census records, will help you to learn about your ancestors.
As information I think the Federal Government through the Bureau of Indian affairs through the Department of Interior, when doling out royalties from minerals and oil profits on Reservation Lands allows ownership by ways of being an "Indian", at levels of 1/16 to qualify. So if she has that level of genetic connectedness she is legally
"Native American", I could be wrong, but I have heard this in the past.
It depends on the tribe as to what they will consider for blood relation for membership. I don't believe there is a federal standard that applies to all tribes.
The Principle Chief of the Cherokee Nation is 1/32 by blood, the same degree assumed by Ms. Warren. Clearly she has never gotten any direct benefit from her claim because any programs for NAs are rigidly monitored for tribal membership or Certified Degree of Blood (CDB) issued from the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Money for education, access to health services, and tribal benefit programs are all based on the CDB that must include birth certificates linking to a registered tribal member.
As a card carrying member of the Cherokee Nation, 1/4 CDB, Ms. Warren looks like many members of my family from Oklahoma. I'm sure Sen. Brown would look at my kids, who are both registered members of the Cherokee Nation, and say he could tell they weren't NA either.
My opinion is that the Cherokees that have come forward to criticize Ms. Warren are merely acting as Republican operatives to bolster a weak candidate. The strong Republican slant in Oklahoma could also explain the lack of support for or sympathy with her story.
Well said, Randy.
Who cares. She's still WAY more qualified than Brown for the post and has particular expertise that the Senate could use RIGHT NOW, when we are debating financial and consumer protection policy. Brown may be a nice guy, but he's the wrong man for the job. We need leaders, not followers.
The real issue here is the behavior of Mr Brown. Are we a country who asks for papers? Sounds like Germany pre WW II. His additional neanderthal remark" you don't look like ONE" is almost worse than Akins absurd remarks about rape. Do you have to look like a minority to be one? Take Bilology 101. My grandparents were Irish, do I need papers to say I am part Irish> This whole conversation is absurd. Mr Brown attacked her instead of debating her, an act of desperation.
It was "an act of desperation" among many other acts. Mr. Brown's senate days are counted.
Excellent call Patrick, it does not matter to you if she is lying or trying to cheat her way into the Senate, its OK if she has no INTEGRITY. Patrick, get a dictionary and look up the word Integrity. And you wonder why this country is so pathetic today, why don't you try to become part of the solution and not the problem?????
Except that she isn't doing that. You are making things up.
All this loose talk about Cherokee blood is easily determined by a review of the official Dawes rolls which I have done and which shows clearly if a relative is listed officially on the Cherokee rolls.
Warren of course is using the idea of her ancestry to promote herself and if the lefties can't see that there is no use on a conversation. Why don't we instead talk about whet.her she practiced law in MA without being member of the appropriate Bar? She should be prosecuted to the full extent of her crimes.
Her crimes? wow. No crimes here, pal. She sought no advantage in claiming part NA ancestry, was just listed that way in a listing of lawyers. And apparently she did not have to be a lawyer in Mass for the work she's done from there. No crimes, no issue. Are you a birther, too?
she should be prosecuted for her crimes? you havent even determined if there were any crimes committed and you are calling for her prosecution? Guess we already know what you have decided.
"...easily determined..."???? Only if her ancestors registered for the Dawes Rolls. Many people did not – no longer living on the reservation, not wanting the "stigma", etc. Your research skills and analytical abilities are in need of a tune up.
Lots of her critics are saying it is wrong for her to claim Native American heritage in order to gain preferntial treatment. Could someone give me one example of her gaining preferential treatment based upon anything other than her oustanding academic achievements? (She has written several books, including the leading statistical analysis on the causes of consumer bankruptcy.) By comparison, what has Scott Brown accomplished.
In the inerest of full disclosure, all of my grandparents are from Oklahoma and we have always been told that we are a tiny bit Cherokee on my mother's side. I have never claimed to "be" Cherokee, and have never asked for or received "preferential treatment" becaus of it, but if the subject comes up, in the words of that immortal philosopher Popeye, "I am what I am."
So the scuttle b–t is because she checked a box in the directory? It doesn't sound like she is trying to claim to be a full blooded Native American and not pay taxes or anything like that. I have some indian blood. Is it not Ok for me to claim that? Its far removed by several generations but still part of my DNA. Is it that she has no Native American ansestry and she is lying or that she is trying to claim to be full blooded Native Amercian?
My great Grandmother was a MacLeod, My sons wear the family kilt and talk about being Scottish. Same thing. It's the culture we relate to and we think it's cool, who wants to be English anyway? (the other ancestors of ours)
George – well said. BTW, my mother was a McLendon.
And that's heritage – you relate to it, enjoy and relish in your ethnic background, etc. But she knows nothing of this heritage, why then should she claim any right to say she is native american????? at all
Mr. Trahant – I find it a positive that in today's world someone would be PROUD of their Native American heritage. Ms. Warren hasn't claimed MEMBERSHIP in any tribe – she just claimed to have ancestors who were Native American. Having lived in Oklahoma for 8 years, I can attest to the pride that many Oklahomans take in their Native American ancestry. I was shocked the first time a Nordic-looking, blue-eyed, white-blonde haired woman said to me "I'm Native American." Compare this to a century ago when people hid the fact – many of them refused to sign the Dawes Rolls. If Ms. Warren was trying for an extra advantage by checking the box "Native American" – shame on her. But, I can also accept that she might have been expressing pride in an ancestral history that was too long denied by far too many people.
She used her claim to get an advantage in both law school and her teaching position. Now it also turns out that she may not have a law license, which is s teeny bit of a problem when she has been practicing law. She is a mindless fraud who just follows the party doctrine. One of her ads whines about the amount of debt students carry...she makes over $400K per year to teach one course in bankruptcy law, a legal specialty that is pretty static and routine, and has the gall to complain about tuition costs.
Links, please? Sources? Not just what your neighbor said or what you like to think now...
Please site a source, Bob. And Faux News is not a credible source for...anything.
Dina no surces required here. This is public information. If you lived in Massachusetts and read a newspaper you would know these things. Get off your high horse and learn the facts yourself instead of voting party lines.
I just traced my ancestry all the way back to Adam and Eve – they were black – and if anyone were to actually trace their ancestry back as far as they could, they would invariably find that someone in their lineage was black. Therefore, we are all part black. Scott Brown would be able to determine this with just a cursory glance though...
She wasn't lying and she wasn't checking boxes. Seriously, people are just making things up. She is a professor and that is a good thing to be. Would people prefer she be something else? Maybe that she had a 3rd grade education and lived on food stamps? Wait..that wouldn't be okay either. Does she have to pick her occupation and education based on what some people think she should be? This gets more bizarre every day. We have an educated, well-spoken, passionate person running for office on a platform to help those who need help. If you don't like her or her politics that is your right. But now her profession and education, her family history, and her income level aren't okay? Should the university pay her in packing peanuts so people would be happy to see her poor?
Geez...issues, people. Vote for her or not, but look at his voting records, his speeches, his actions, and look at hers...facts, not hearsay. Then vote how you like, but this is ridiculous.
Many of us claim national heritage based on the slimmest connection. I know people who lfy an Irish flag on the front of their house whoa re no more than 1/16 Irish. But since he came through the men in their families, and they retain a name like O'Malley, that's how they describe themselves. My children consider themselves Dutch, though they are less than half.
It isn't the same thing as what we have here, but it is similar enough that we should keep in mind. We are very casual about ancestry until we aren't and not everyone gets serious at the same point on the road.
By the way, Warren didn't make her heritage a political issue. She mentioned it on a form to increase her chances of meeting others in her same situation. The form lacked a checkbox that more full describes her. Others picked that up, put it in a different context, and made an issue of it while war-whooping around the campaign office. Choose your poison carefully.
Steve – well said.
To meet others in her same situation? What situation? Liar, rich, not even in the middle class.
So if you had her education and experience you would accept minimum wage for your work? Grow up.
According to anthropologists, all of us were originated from Africa. Why don't we all call ourselves African Americans and all problems solved.
But what are the non-Americans going to call themselves then? I say we all just call ourselves humans, or we mutts, that works too.
Scott Browns remark is all the proof anyone needs that the GOP or @ least its majority are a bunch of clueless WASPs when it comes to cultural diversity. They think that if Warren isnt wearing feathers & moccasins she cant have any Cherokee blood in her. And they wonder why they cant win over any minorities in great #s @ the polls. Amusing.
The degree to which Scott Brown's team and other desperate Republicans are OBSESSED with this highlights why they are LOSING.
It should be easy to find out if here claim is legit. I am sure that she can afford a geology test done on her DNA, this would tell her if she is truly from Native American Descent.
Read the article. Research was done. There was no evidence she was lying and her claim was reasonable.
Good grief, CNN! F0x covered this story a month ago. Heads up for CNN readers: in about a month CNN will be talking about whether Warren practiced in Mass when she wasn't licensed to. That's what F0x is talking about right now.
Yes, leave it to Fox news to be right on top of every manufactured controversy. The favt is, Warren did not violate any Mass. law. Go read the Massachucetts Code of Professional Conduct. Try getting information somewhere other than Fox, you will be smarter for it.
This isn't the first time they have reported on it... and the update was based on an ad released on Monday. I guess that pretty much guarantees you didn't RTFA.
"Warren fired back in an ad that came out Monday."
"addressing the central concern that Brown has brought up on the campaign trail and at the candidates' first debate last week."
so fox reported on this very story a month ago huh?
My grandmother was half Am. Indian, from coastal north carolina... her ancestors were a mix of Tuscagora and, we think, Lumbee, who go all the way back to the days of Powhatan. Later, due to bigotry, she would just say "Oh, I think we were part Cherokee." Everyone was Cherokee...
The truth is that most people who can trace back to English people who were here before 1776 or so, ARE part Indian. Many of them have lineage much closer, too. Half-indians were marrying 3/4-Indians, whose children married full indians, etc., with an African-American or two thrown into the mix, and then maybe a Swedish immigrant or 2... like my family. I am an example of that and, believe it or not, my appearance is quite a lot like Elizabeth Warren. I was the fairest (blondest) member of my immediate family but, never-the-less, I am part Indian. Now that it is popular to be Indian again, people want to challenge those of us who rarely mentioned it. I don't give a rat's patoot if you believe me or not. But, because of the people I know, for whom it is true, I WHOLEHEARTEDLY BELIEVE ELIZABETH WARREN IS PART-INDIAN. She looks just like a lot of fair skinned people I know who are part-Indian. So, there!
Did you claim native american heritage to get preferential treatment in education? In your career? I don't doubt your history, it's the history of many, and possibly even Elizabeth Warren's. What I doubt is her integrity. She uses her possible heritage when she sees it as an advantage, and doesn't when she doesn't see it as an advantage. I also believe she is disingenous when discussing her heritage, because, as other's have pointed out, she hasn't been involved in her heritage, just claiming it when it will benefit her.
Except that she didn't do that. But keep on repeating this if you need to think so. Read the article.
Warren had nothing to gain or nothing to lose by claiming she has some Native Amer blood in her DNA. Brown is blustering about it because he is a WASP that doesnt realize what the term "melting Pot" means. Anyone can be either 1 race, 2 races or more, there is no limit as to how multicultural an American is. If Brown has proof Warren was trying to gain some sort of political advantage by claiming to be part Cherokee then let him explain himself. Just more pathetic & shameless GOP political theater
Brown also posed naked and he's a fool. Let's talk about that for awhile instead of Elizabeth Warren's heitage. It would be a whole lot more interesting, but none of this has anything to do with the facts in the election anyway. Why not throw in abortion. We could talk about that until the cows come home.
Warren has nothing to gain? Harvard is the primary benefactor, it answered claims that they were "too white and too male" by claiming they had a female native american professor. University of PA gains. The issue a 2005 minority report that claims EW is an award winning minority professor. If I make my boss look good, I get rewarded. Warren and her husband, also a Harvard professor, make over a million dollars a year as Harvard professors. Dont' tell me she didn't gain – she gains every payday. Who lost? The real minorities that EW and her associates claim to want to help.
Except that research showed what she said was reasonable and not a lie.
You must have missed the story that Warren was published in a book in 1984 called "Pow Wow Cookbook" where you could learn about "“special recipes passed down through the Five Tribes families,”"
Nothing to gain there right? Money? nah ... blinders.
Native American: One born in America. Yep, she is one and so am I.
You may be a US citizen but you are probably not a Native American, an official classification of race of those who inhabited America prior to Columbus.
A native is someone originally born in the place they live. If I ask if you are "native to Chicago" I am not asking if your family lived there 200 years ago but if you were born in Chicago.
If that's the definition – here before Colombus – then they are all now dead and there aren't any. Why anyone would want to claim they are part of a group that couold not defend their land and got their butts kicked by white men, is beyond me.
Elizabeth has both family lore and official records on her side.
Her great-great-great grandmother is listed as Cherokee in official records.
Actually, according to this article, no. There are no "official" records that support the claim about her great-great-great grandmother. It states the original marriage application to which family members have referred cannot be located. So what we have is the family saying it and not being able to provide proof (other than it's in the family lore).
Oh, seriously. They proved it as much as it could be proven. She didn't make it up and wasn't lying. That is the point unless you have another agenda that leads you to insist she is lying.
judging from her high cheekbones I would say she almost certainly his some native american DNA in her blood
It's really pathetic to claim a race that you aren't.
And it's pathetic to say someone is doing that when she isn't. Lots of things are pathetic. This whole nonsense is pathetic. Research showed her claims are reasonable, so you either see that and move on or hang onto nonsense to prove some point you can't any other way and to deflect from the issues.
I would happily vote for Warren, but generally agree it's not good when you have to release a campaign add explainig your heritage (or lack thereof). Anyone remember the infamous O'Donnell "I am not a witch add?" That said, while O'Donnell may not have been a witch (verdict remains out), she was a kook, so there may be hope.
This is a prime example of a politico, Brown, saying repeatedly "Watch my left hand!" while using the other to destroy democracy and avoid issues of importance.
There is only one criterion for being defined as Native American: membership in a tribe that agrees you are a member. Tribes have the right to define their memberships. No one else can has the right to do so. But.... havijng said that, as a "card carrying" tribally defined member of a tribe, I happen to find it wonderful that people are proud to mention Native American "heritage." Gone the 19th century attempt to avoid mention of non-white ancestors. People are proud to be descended from people of all kinds of colors and ethnicities.
So don't criticize her. There are true, recognized tribal members, and then there is a whole lot of people who are proud to be unrecognized descendents. Welcome, cousins!
That's a dumb criterion, IMO. I'm not any less Irish because it's been 150 years since my ancestors left Ireland and nobody in Ireland would recognize me as being Irish. If my descendants leave the US someday they won't be any less American than I am.
what I citicize her for is her sometimes Native American heritage, sometimes not, depending on whether or not it will be beneficial to her. I too have an ancestor 5 generations ago that was Native American. I'm proud it, have never hid it, and have never used it to gain preferential treatment.
So you would rather she hide it? It is who she really is...we are the sum of all who came before us. So she doesn't have a card? So? I am just as Irish without a card and I would put it in a blank if one was there, but that wouldn't mean I am lying or only using it when it's convenient. When did she say she isn't from that heritage?
Why are we still talking about this? What does her race or even her opinions about her race have to do with her ability to be a good legislator?
Thank you. Finally, a voice of reason.
I am talking about a charachter issue. I am talking about a woman who rants thatthe game is rigged while using the game to her benefit. I am talking about a woman who whines that kids can't afford college while she and her husband make a million dollars a year teaching. I am talking about a woman who complains banks are taking your houses when her family and she gain from house flipping in Oklahoma. I am talking about a woman whose daughter is part of an organization that sued the state of massachusetts and forced them to spend $270k to mail voter registration forms to welfare recipients. Not $270k on food, diapers or daycare ... voter registration forms the year EW is running for congress. Oh, and she allowed her employers to claim her as a native american so they don't have to hire real minorities. That's what I am talking about.
What is a REAL minority? How brown/black does the skin have to be? And, by the way, have you traced your heritage? If not, you might be in for a surprise.
Except that what she said does bear out with research. It wasn't lying, and did you want her to lie about it and say she wasn't? How weird this all is. It's just an attack to get people to be afraid of the "other" and smear her integrity. It is seriously obvious.
Romney was voted "Worst Massachusetts Governor of All Time".
And now Scott Brown is the "Worst Massachusetts Senator of All Time".
Umm... WHAT? You are clearly not from MA or know anything about MA. Cite your (legitimate) source.
Scott Brown showed his ignorance of the situation when he asked whether she looked like an Indian? Does Heather Locklear look like an Indian? Did he never hear of "marrying white" or "passing"? And if, not he's very ignorant of early heritages.
Good luck Elizabeth.
This was an uncalled for, personally vicious, mean, and desperate attack by Scott Brown.
You are correct.
It was uncalled for to claim minority status to get preferential treatment.
It was vicous to steal the privilege from a true minority.
It is mean to deny someone what is legally his' or her's so you can get a leg up.
Lizzy Lialotta is being called out by the campaign of Brown loudly because the "press" won't treat her as they treat others who use their privilege to steal a minority person's right to something.
Her great-great-great grandmother is listed as Cherokee in official records..
Jim, allow me to interrupt your delusion with a bit of reality. What is she gaining again? What preferential treatment is she asking for or has received. What privilege is she stealing again? How is she trying to get a leg up? Get a grip man, you’re all upset about things that aren’t even happening. That must be exhausting.
I have a feeling time will show her strength of character to lay claim to what many deny until they have a thought that they might benefit from belonging to that group, such as Cherokee. Then everyone starts searching for a litle "distant" Cherokee blood, or other.
I don't care what she is. She's annoying as hell!
The only people she annoys are the fraudsters and greedmeisters on Wall Street.
And those who think it is improper to lie about being a minority to get a benefit and deny that same benefit to a minority.
According to the facts she's not lying Jim. You do understand what facts are Jim?
Robert – to use that, you have to actually cite some facts in your statement. According to What facts? There are no facts to prove she is not lying. There are no facts that confirm her native-american heritage. No facts that prove she did not receive preferential treatment, and I recall some facts that she was esposed as the first native-american dean or some such thing.
As for anyone being scared of Warren. All she did is create another Gov't committee that I have yet to see provide actual benefit or reform. Some people don't consider that accomplishing anything.
So is Scott Browns Racist remark. Just sayin
At least lie about something that is actually said you fool.
This Warren lady is fake. She should change her campaign message to "ONLY the government is allowed to screw you".
She pretened to care about protecting citizens. However, Obama administration is putting charges on citizen's credit cards everyday (via deficit spending), and she choose to be part of the scam. I don't know what they have protected, the agency she created is adding a $500 million charge to tax payers a year.
I spent some time in my mid-twenties in New England and it was always fashionable to claim "Indian" blood as a way of saying "I'm really Mayflower stuff." It was laughable really.
When the U.S. starts to resemble a third-word country, maybe Brown will ya'll a ride in his pickup. Those who are rich and powerful will continue to be so (that's what this is all about), but those less fortunate are going to scatch their heads wondering how all this came down and the last thing that will concern them is the heritage of Elizabeth Warren. That's how easy it is for the GOP to control the population and their votes. All they have to do is bring up some ridiculous subject that has absolutely nothing to do with the election. Brown is a puppet who is being fed all the hot button issues to put forth to get people's minds off of the facts. Elizabath Warren is a highly educated professor who is willing to serve the people of this country and keep them safe from the powerful people who can destroy them and end life as they know it. If she was purple and from outer space, I'd take her over Brown. Wake up or you'll get what you deserve!
Well said and thank you.
my husband is 1/16th choctaw from his mother's side and has a card from that Tribe. He is also 1/16th cherokee from his father's side. However, his father's side chose not to be put on the rolls because they feared being on a list. I am not sure what or whom they feared with with regards to being identified. So does that make my father-in-law not native american?
Likewise my husband who is on the rolls of the choctaw tribe was not raised with any knowledge of his heritage. He says his mother always marked them as caucasion any time it was non-Choctaw forms.
Does that make him not native american because he doesn't identify as such even though he is listed on the rolls?
It is very confusing.
The story appears to say she checked "native american" when applying for faculty tenure, and unchecked it when she got it. I bet your husband didn't do that. Nothing is confusing here.
No, bigrandy, the story does not say that. Read again.
Elizabeth Warren is from Oklahoma and so am I. Many, many people here have some degree of Native blood but are not official members of their tribes because their grandparents or great-grandparents did not sign up on the Dawes Rolls. My grandfather was 1/8 Cherokee when the rolls were open but declined to enroll. The reason given by most people who refused to enroll was the tremendous stigma placed on Native Americans at the time, and the fear that the rolls would be used against them somehow by a Federal Government that had lied to them so many times before. The fear that it could adversely affect the possibility of finding employment was also a significant factor. Elizabet's story is not at all uncommon at all here.
I am also surprised that Scott Brown's racist claim that he can identify a Native American by simply looking as someone has not gotten more discussion than it has. Here there are many members of various tribes that look nothing at all like full blood Natives. Most tribes as far as I know do not have blood quantums that limit membership. If you can tie your grandfather or great-grandfather to the rolls, you will be made a member whether you look like Chief Stand Watie, Will Rogers, or Elizabeth Warren.
OK, let's see I'am American of Mexican descent, I have Mexican blood in me, so when I applied for my driver's license, they put down white. So, uh, I'am white and yes I do speak Mexican and English. I have never had to claim I'am part Mexican, so that the blood is diluted as we move forward in our lives. Oh, my wife's light, bright and almost white, 5% Cherokee, her grandmother was Cherokee from MO.
So, seriously, what's your point??
What Bob said....
You speak Mexican? I didn't know that was a language.
But if that is true or you honestly believe it to be then you could claim yourself biracial or whatever you like. So?
"Elizabeth Warren: Native American?" No, lying tub of scht...and I mean that in the nicest possible way....
Who cares if she is an Injun?
She is twice as smart as Scott Brown.
I think she should complain that Scott Brown is not really brown!
She is no more a Native American than I am. She used it to advance her career. She's a typical Liberal who will say and do anything to get elected. She is a disgrace to the Demorcatic Party. How pathetic.
Please indicate how exactly she's used it to advance her career since she didn't mention it until recently. Do you think before you start typing or do you just parrot what Fox said?
She used it to advance her career when she checked the native american box in order to get preferential treatment regarding tenure. She had not previously claimed to be native american, and after getting tenure, she removed native american from her profile.
Apparently you can't read very well. Read the article again. She isn't lying.
The blonde haired, blue eyed Lizzie wasn't lying when she said, "I had a little Indian in me, once!"
As a paid genealogist I can attest that one of the most common claims is of Amercian Indian ancestry and almost all of the claims include the Cherokee.
99.9% of the cases I have worked turn out to be false.
As an unpaid genealogist I can tell you that with 2 to the n ancestors in early America like I have, there have been some real surprises, and that if you can trace back to the earliest founders you are going to find serious contact with Native Americans, including kidnappings. That this would never result in racial mixing is (99.9% pure is quite a claim) hard to believe. Especially when you figure in the French who sometimes intermarried with natives, and then (in fur trapping regions) intermarried with English. I never knew I had Canadian ancestry until I did my tree, nor that many of my cousins were taken in the Deerfield Massacre. It's a huge canvas, and you have only probably sampled a small part of it. Out on the frontier, the rules were different. Things were as violent in New England as they were later in the Wild West. Now go to the Southern states, and it's even more complex (so that most of the Virginia Founding Fathers could trace back to Pocohontas and not be lying).
But hers wasn't false. What is your point?
All she has to do is have a DNA test and see
You really don't know much, if anything, about DNA testing, do you?? Nest time, before opening up your big mouth pretending that you know something (like warren), why don't you educate yourself first by taking courses in biology and genetics? But first, you'll need to get through grade school and earn your GED...
Does it matter? She is American. There is no such thing as a hyphenated American.
You're completely missing the point, which is that she lied about her heritage. I'm sorry but being 1/32 Native American doesn't mean you should check the box as Native American on the race section of the application.
I don't think anyone has a right to tell someone else what parts of their heritage they can or cannot claim. But to your point of the 1/32, you should know that the current Chief of the Cherokee Nation is only 1/32 Cherokee.
Well said. According to my grandfather, I'm as much Native American as she is but it does not make me eligible to check the 'Native American' box on any form. I have other ancestors who were English royalty a few hundred years ago. That doesn't mean I can wander into Buckingham Palace and have a nice family reunion with cousin Elizabeth.
Try reading the article. She wasn't lying. Seriously...do facts or research mean anything to you? There is no reason to think she is lying unless you really want her to be for your own reasons.
The statement that "it's all past tense" (what an Indian looks like) is as ignorant as many other statements being made about this issue. Many of the Lakota tribes have never inter-married and look exactly the same now, as prior to 1600.
I'd like to see a good portrait of a Lakota from prior to 1600 to use as a comparison. Unfortunately such a portrait does not exist. You'd really be better off relying on 19th century tin types. But what does that prove?
It's just a rumor, that racial purity, like the rumor many of us have of Native American ancestors.
The reality is that the human race from one generation to the next thinks that it is breaking down barriers which previous generations already broke down centuries before.
Why would you vote for a LIAR? Someone who committed FRAUD? Is that part of your value system?
Well, as a democrat, yes it is.
Warren has Brown beat on all the major issues, so in desperation, Brown is fishing this up.
It was an issue long before this election, but nice spin on reality...
Actually, I care. It speaks volumes about her character. And it clearly screams that she is disingenous. If we elect this woman, we deserve what she will do to us.
Well, you either didn't read the article that says she wasn't lying according to research, you are a troll just making things up to smear her, or you don't care that she wasn't making it up
Lancelot: have you ever considered getting a life? Sitting in your little room writing 8 long paragraphs of nonsense is so sad.
Warren did not lie about her heritage!
She is not shrill!
She is not "hoity tority"!
She is not a snob!
Scott, whith this argument, is clearly grasping at straws as he slids lower and lower in the polls.
Peggy, Again, I am a Dem from Mass.
Are we talking about two different people named Elizabeth Warren?
Anyone born in North America is a "native American."
Not according to the US Government. The SBA (Small Business Administration) has a 8a program meant for Small disadvantaged businesse owners such as Native Americans. There is a certification process you have to go through to be eligible. She would not have qualified for the program.
But that doesn't matter since she didn't try to get into it. So?
From that blonde, blue eyed tribe....
I am 1/8th Modoc-Klamath Indian – the remainder is Scot-Irish. My great-grandfather was pure Modoc of the Klamath tribes.
I have dark blonde hair and green eyes.
My daughter is 1/4 Cree (status confirmed by gov) and is blonde, blue eyed and fair. My husband is 1/2 Cree and is fair with green eyes.
If Ms. Warren did not benefit from her racial heritage, I don't care if she checked "Green Martian". Get the flock over it!
Warren is flat out lliar that lied about her status to advance her academic career. How do you elect a person like that to office? What a terrible thing to do! SLEAZY!!!! Her ad trying to explain it....makes me cringe. C'mon Mass – make the right decision! My wife is 1/8th Cherokee but never marked herself as American Indian because she couldn't trace back to the Cherokee nation rolls. Warren KNEW BETTER.
Except that it was not a lie and every employer she ever had said they knew nothing about it when they hired her. Pesky little facts! Scott Brown is desperate to NOT have to discuss his voting record, which is far from non-partisan. I do line in Massachusetts and will be proudly voting for Elizabeth Warren
Why is it the Dems are all about lying to the public and they will go down trying to defend their lies. But god forbid a Republican lies the world is in an upraor. Call a spade a spade grow some balls and call it like it is . SHE IS A LIAR AND WE ARE PROUD OF HER AND OUR PRESIDENT ( KING OF LIES)
She didn't note 'native american' in faculty directories until she was tenured. She got no benefit from it. Other than what she said- "I wanted to meet others like me". She got no grants/promotions/special treatment because of this. So someone just show me where she did.
"My wife is 1/8th Cherokee but never marked herself as American Indian because she couldn't trace back to the Cherokee nation rolls"
Then she is lazy or a liar.
And that was her choice, but has nothing to do with anyone else. If she said she wasn't because she isn't half or whatever, people would be complaining she wasn't proud of her heritage. Since she is proud of it she gets blasted. Wow.
I know everyone is convinced that being a minority is somehow an advantage, but all the American Indians I've known have had a nearly impossible time just getting into and staying in college, for financial reasons, because of the state of their schools, and once they get out, they want to go back and contribute to their people, but there are no jobs and it is nearly impossible to create businesses in such small down depressed areas.
Tell them to come to Canada, where even if they commit murder, they are, by law, not sentenced as other people would be. They get every hand out imaginable, it's only taxpayer's money....what do they care...
Next one up: swiftboating the Turtleman. He said that he was 1/4 Shawnee, 1/4 Cherokee.
I also want to see Mitt Romney's and Scott Brown's birth certificate. Long form, please.
You guys are running on empty.
Let's talk about Scott Brown's voting record in the Senate.
The bottom line is she stands up for the middle class, understands macroeconomics, and is inclusive. The sensitivity of native Americans I can understand to a point, the far right racism (the tomahawk chops etc.) are disgusting and sad Brown has nothing of substance to campaign on.
The issue here in the People's Republic of Massachusetts is that although she said all her former employers knew she didn't invoke indian heritage- then show us the employment applications- case closed! Ask her who she was supporting when she worked for Travelers Insurance against Asbestos "victims"
Otherwise, Scott Brown for 2012
Who cares about Elizabeth Warren's heritage! This whole controversy is nothing but a smoke screen over the real facts in this election. To start with, Brown is nothing but a aging pretty boy who takes marching orders from the GOP against the middle class (Hello!). Check his voting record – not Elizabeth Warren's heritage! She has the brains and he doesn't even have the bawn anymore. All he can do is get into a pickup and make like he's common folk, and a lot of people fall for this gimmick. Please, people, wake up and quit being fooled and voting against your own beset interests. Think!
You suggesting Mass voters should vote for a LIAR? Someone who committed FRAUD? Wow...I hope you are not holding the keys to the SAFE.
Okay, when the U.S. starts to resemble a third-word country, maybe Brown will give you a ride in his pickup. Those who are rich and in power will continue to be so (that's what this is all about), but those less fortunate are going to scatch their heads wondering how all this came down and the last thing that will concern them is the heritage of Elizabeth Warren. She is a highly educated professor who is willing to serve the people of this country and keep them safe from the powerful people who can destroy them and end life as they know it. Wake up and smell the coffee!
When the U.S. starts to resemble a third-word country, maybe Brown will give you a ride in his pickup. Those who are rich and powerful will continue to be so (that's what this is all about), but those less fortunate are going to scatch their heads wondering how all this came down and the last thing that will concern them is the heritage of Elizabeth Warren. That's how easy it is for the GOP to control the population and their votes. All they have to do is bring up some ridiculous subject that has absolutely nothing to do with the election. Brown is a puppet who is being fed all the hot button issues to put forth to get people's minds off of the facts. Elizabath Warren is a highly educated professor who is willing to serve the people of this country and keep them safe from the powerful people who can destroy them and end life as they know it. Wake up or you'll get what you deserve!
lol – Scott Brown will lose badly.
So Phil, are you Irish or German or French? Have you ever put that on a form? You're probably not as much as you think you are. Is that fraud? Or is it that you never took the time to find out your true background?
A simple DNA test can determine the percentage of your DNA inherited from various groups: European, African, Asian, Native American, etc. Many black people who look "fully African" actually have a mixed heritage. Many people who look "fully European" likewise actually have a mix. Judging just by looks, as Brown did, is a very risky and error-prone thing to do.
You have to have a certain percentage to be a Status Native, it can't be like your great, great grandmother on your nephew's side.
i always think that a "dialogue" of this sort makes it clear that they have nothing of substance to discuss. were i living in that area, i'd pick the third party candidate, perhaps that person has issues that they want to fix.
look, when will people figure out: you cannot tell someone's race merely by looking at them. i am part cherokee and also part creek, native on both sides of my family. i also am part welsh and part swedish. i have completely straight hair. but it is auburn. i have freckles. whom do you think i most resemble? and yet i have absolute proof that my relatives are native americans.
the question is not and never should be in america what race is this person. even if they declaim one race or another, who the heck do you think you are to tell somebody they are not what they believe themselves to be.
issues, people. this is an election. what are the ISSUEs?
and, just like warren's claims of familial bigotry, yes we had that, too. my great grandparents did not want my grandfather to marry my grandmother because she was indian. her family tried to deny that they were indian even though they came west along the Trail, because they had learned to be ashamed of being indian. they sent her to school at the only indian school in the area and claimed that she wasn't indian, but she would not have been allowed to attend that school had she not been. these are not my only evidences just trying to point out that racism is rampant and denial can change family history into fable. heck, my own mother's mother used to denigrate my mother because she looked more like her cherokee father and call her hawk-nosed, etc, while praising her golden-haired eldest daughter.
I'm just astounded that considering all the pertinent issues on our plates, that scott brown chose this inane basis for his campaign. It's a telling statement on mr. brown.
Brown has NO RECORD to run on.
So this is all he has.
wrong, Brown is the only independent voice for Mass from the crowd of liberal dems in DC
Having married a woman who has had this same controversy in her family, this is much ado about nothing. She was told that her Great Great Grandmother was Blackfoot. Until we did some Genealogical work in the last decade, this was her 'truth'.
We went back to the beginnings of the 1800s and could find no woman of Indian extraction in her ancestors. She is now 66 and it's only in the last 5 years has it been clear that the legend is untrue.
According to an investigation which interviewed the members of Warren's family, this was a 'well known' fact in the family. Now, WHY would you question it if you're a young woman going to college?
Did she get an advantage. I never had a Professor ask a class who in the group had what heritage. I have never heard of a Professor who curved grades according to heritage.
Go through the Smoky Mountains and stop at some of the Indian run gift shops. I defy you to categorize who, in the shops, is Indian just by looking at their skin color, which is what Brown is asserting. Those shops require all the sales people to be members of a tribe. How much? That's up to the individual tribe. In some it's as little as 1/32nd. Others say 1/4.
Again, much ado about nothing.
She believed what her mom told her. Meanwhile, Brown voted against re-instating Glass Steegal. He authored legislation to discriminate against women in health care coverage. He voted against equal pay for women. He voted against veterans last week. He has, consistently, been protecting the very people who caused this economic meltdown, been against women and veterans. He's a right winger. Surprise Surprise. But then again, Romney said he was a moderate too, didn't he. At one time, I voted for them both. NOt this time. Fool me once......
Scott Brown has done absolutely ZERO in Washington.- Oh no! he has! He voted AGAINST re-instating Glass Steegal! Who do you think funds his commercials??? The same banks and hedge fund managers who caused the economic collapse. He CONSISTENTLY sides with irresponsible banking practices. They are his sugar daddies. He has consistently, voted WITH radical southerners in every piece of legilsation, even co-authored one, to discriminate against women, make abortion rights illegal, even in the case of rape or incest and to not pay women equal!!! Every one! Look it up! His voting record proves it! He is yet, another, Mass republican who claims to be moderate to voters, but really, throws women and freedoms under the bus for his crazy southern radicals who he thinks will advance his career. Mitt Romney claimed to be a moderate too, remember? Let's not have Brown running for president claiming he's anti choice even in the case of rape in a couple years shall we? Let's see this facade for what it is now. Just look at his voting record. He's a Teabagger . He's voted with them every blessed time.
So the Indian "Chop" is offensive–Lefties? Since When?
When Ted Turner and Hanoi Jane attended Braves' baseball games, they were roundly embraced by the main-stream media for being regular folk while being photographed endlessly chopping away.
Socialism is for the people...not the Socialists.
Stop the racism. This is very offensive to someone who is a minority.
I am 25% black, and 25% native and from South America, so does that mean that I can't be proud of my black and native roots.
This is a very smart woman who has earned her credits. Warren all the way. You go sista.
You should be offended as a minority that she LIED...
Last week, Scott Brown voted AGAINST our Veteran's. He is a party-loyalist who is behind in the polls and is absolutely desperate. I used to believe he was moderate and hoped others would be more like him. Now – look at where his funding is coming from. He's a puppet of the radical right, and he has got to go – and is going down in flames already.
American Indians are the ONLY race in America that is required to "prove" their race because the federal government doesn't want to pay natives. Technically you aren't a "real" Cherokee (even if 100% of your bloodline) if your ancestors aren't listed in the Dawes Rolls. Plenty of natives refused to give their information, some were living off reservations by that time. My family DOES appear in the removal records, but none of us now live on reservations or carry tribal ID.
I could easily register with the tribe – IF the stinking state would give me my birth certificate. It seals those automatically if you are adopted. I returned to my real family and took back my real name the moment I turned 18 – but the court refuses to release it to me. (Thanks for stealing my heritage a second time, you government pigs).
Does that mean I "can't" claim my heritage because some white person says so? Or even another Indian who has lived on the reservation all their life? I SAY NO.
The federal government has stolen the heritage away from native tribes and black Americans long enough.
Elizabeth Warren, you are what each of your ancestors made you. Shout ALL your heritage to the world – and NEVER let anyone rip away your roots.
Ho-wa! , HH as a member of the Green Mt. Band of Aniyunwiwa & Aniyunwiwa of Massachusetts Blue Hill Wa-do for telling it like it is.
Romney was voted "Worst Massachusetts Governor of All Time"
And now Scott Brown is the "Worst Massachusetts Senator of All Time"
All hyperbole, no fact.
Here's a fact, Romney is over 30 points behind Obama in Massachusetts polling where he was Gov. That says something.
stevelb1 – great point! Romney can't take the state he was governor of. He is "toss up" in NH where he owns one of his multi-million dollar houses. And they are behind in WI where Ryan has never even run for a state wide office.
This Democrat is happy!
We are one surpreme court justice away, who will surely be appointed by the next president, to saying whether women will be forced to carry the babies of their rapists to term and birth them against their will. Employers being allowed to legally discriminate against women in health are coverage, employers being allowed to legally not pay women for equal work. All these things, Brown supports. His voting record proves it. When you cannot be free, when you are not allowed equal treatment by the law,what is more important???? nothing. Give me liberty or give me death, remember? End Tyranny...remember? I DO NOT trust Brown with women's freedoms he's already demonstrated VERY clearly he will not support them. I have a daughter. And she will probably have a daughter and for all my daughters and granddaughter sand their daughters, I will vote for Warren. You can't prove rape. And when women have no right and no respect, we stop being a free country. Now is not the time to elect a political opportunist who has already shown he sides with right wing radicals who are working feverishly to put women back into the 18th century. Vote for women. For your girls and their girls and their girls.....
Wrong again- Romney believes in abortion rights for rape,incest,medical stop lieing posters. did you see Debbie wasserman Smith get slapped by Anderson Copper for saying this lie>>
'I believe that since Roe v. Wade has been the law for 20 years we should sustain and support it.'
'Roe v. Wade has gone too far.'
'I respect and will protect a woman's right to choose.'
'I never really called myself pro-choice.'
NOW, exactly WHERE does Romney stand?
His name isn't Mitt. It's Mariah and he turns with the wind.
How do you know what Romney believes? He has been on both sides of virtually every issue depeding on the audience, He is a flip flopper, a weathervane, he has no conviction that he will not turn his back on for political advantage. He is a panderer without peer.
She a fake indian and a fake lawyer to boot. I wouldn't elect this fraud as dog catcher.
how is she fake, clearly research shows she has a family member listed as native american , it is also clear that her claim was never known to those hiring here , Sen Brown and his camp are grabbing at straws on this one... leaving me disappointed as I voted for him last time....thinking he was above just tatics and mor einterested in representing hte people than playing party politics / gutter politics....guess I was wrong.... he deserves to be retired........
She claimed Indian American to get the professorship position at Harvard. Harvard Law never hired someone outside of Ivy Leage, and she's from Rutgers, not to say Rutgers is a bad school but it is not Ivy
Scott Brown has done absolutely ZERO in Washington.
Just another GOP piece of cardboard taking up space.
I check White & Native American boxes all the time. I don't have papers either, and I probably look more 'white' than I do Indian.
It's stupid. If checking a box related to race gives you some special benefit or advancement in careers – why doesn't that ring as the problem instead of whether or not someone checked it? Really, if you are any race other than white you should get special treatment?
That dillutes the value of achievements made by all folks who don't check that 'white' box.
On the note of justifying her geneology... like I said, I don't have papers. I don't need papers – my Grandmother is still alive and anyone with an IQ over 60 need only look at her to know her race.
What a sad thing to turn into politcal batter. We will never see eachother as just people as long as we continue to push for special treatment based on our race.
Shout it, sister! Never let anyone rob you of your heritage or your roots!!!
I can't tell you how much I dont care. I am sick to death of this issue, and the more I hear it, the more I want to vote for Warren. I believe she thought she was. There. Done. Nobody asks for geneological proof. Are you? Yes or no. She thought she was. so, why not check the box. It probably was a decision that took all of ten seconds to make. Oh, look, we have some native american hertigage, I'm going to say yes. Brown paired up with that radical southern mississippi senator to author legislation to discriminate against in employer healthcare coverage. Explain THAT! Brown voted against the equal pay for equal work for women. Explain THAT! The republican national convention INVITED Brown to speak, at a convention where the platform was to force girls to carry the babies of their rapist to term and birth them against their will. He was INVITED TO SPEAK and gee, that would have been a GREAT Time to prove he wasn't going to throw women's freedoms under the bus as his entire voting record indicates that he surely will, and what does he do???? Cower at home, and does not even show up. Under the bus we went! Explain THAT! I am SO voting FOR Warren!!!!!
Given the importance of the party balance in the Senate and the likelihood that they will be voting for some new Supreme Court Justices in the next four years, I would normally vote for the Democrat no matter what. It is a testament to how bad a candidate Warren is that I'm going to end up voting for Brown.
Who cares? She received no special treatmenty, no advances, no loans, no dispensation from a Tribe, so why is this even being discussed? Because Brown is desperate and pretty much out of options, so attempting to paint Native Americans in an ugly way is all that he has left. He certainly has no record to run on, the Republicants squelched any legislation (even ones they helped write) that would show him competent.
I care, she got her professorship position at Harvard by claiming Indian.
What part of "she didn't receive special treatment" do you not understand?
You're such a liar. Your refusal to accept the truth – that being a minority doesn't get anybody special treatment in hiring – just so you can keep hammering at her over a completely fake issue only makes it obvious that for you, it's all about that letter next to their name (R or D). You're not fooling anybody with this act where you pretend to have a reason to hate her. You hate her because she's a democrat, so why bother pretending otherwise?
Well stated. great assessment of the Mass voter. Look at the record of Health care in our great state
1.) Health care related bankruptcies are up not down- reported by the Boston Globe last week or something
2.) we are still the highest cost HC premium
3.) Outcomes have not changed.
4.) slightly more people are using the Er as primary care – NOT Less.
5.) employers are taxed for this absolute nothing plan.
In government laws and programs never change they just get worse. You can't force people to change their bad habit of over spending on homes and cars or taking care of their health. They need to change themselves. Throwing all the money in the world will not change. I know I have an older brother who still goes to the ER. He thinks the best care from Mass General Hosp.
First thing, why is this even an issue?..Everyone in this country are mixed with another race...It sounds like to me that Scott Brown is using this as a diversion because he does not want to talk about his lousy track record in the do nothing Congress.....He and the republicans have done nothing to help the middle class and use issues such as birthers, race, etc to try and take people minds off the fact that they are incompetent and not fit for office...I hope she beats his pants off in this race; republicans need to be taught a lesson that they can't denigrade people's character and and use money to buy their way in this election....
Trahant's claim that you have to be part of a community to have a bloodline is absurd, (I don't live in Ireland but still have a lot of Irish heritage). But nonetheless, I don't care whether or not she is, or even if it helped her get into school. She represents my political beliefs, and Brown represents the the pandering, party-before-country GOP and everything they stand for.
Massachussets needs someone like Elizabeth Warren that will stand up for the middle-class.
And stand up for insurance companies
This was an uncalled for, personally vicious, and desperate attack by Scott Brown.
The point is that she lied about it you fool!
She stands up for the middle class while representing steel insurance companies who are trying to limit
workman's comp. benefits but somehow that's not hypocritical because she's a liberal.
Even in genetics, you can only go back three generations before genes are irrelevant. There is no genetic or DNA test to prove Indian heritage. So, unless you have genealogical proof, stop claiming to be something you clearly are not.
Read the whole article.
Her great-great-great grandmother is listed as Cherokee.
My gr gr gr grandfather applied for Indian benefits and was denied. He LIED on the application. That's not definitive proof.
Susan, that's YOUR family of liars. And has nothing to do with Elizabeth's family.
How reliable are 19th century birth records, marriage records, census records, etc. for Native Americans? I'm guessing that family lore might be an equally reliable source in some cases.
"Family lore" in my case, turned out to be *very* far from the truth. DNA testing and old court records put my whole family in someone elses household and added three more siblings than my family was told about. I'm with Dr. House, "People lie".
You get a tribal card. I am 1/32 Cherokee just like Warren, from Oklahoma too. You literally get a race card. I am just as white & Indian as her. Many people didn't sign up to be registered when they first wrote down all of the family information years ago and so many people and their descendants who actually have Indian ancestry aren't included. But, even so, should race even matter? It doesn't surprise me that academia is what got her into trouble. I was invited to Indiana University (an all inclusive trip paid for by the university) just because I told them I was Native American. While it is true (I do have a card after all) you should have seen their faces when they saw my white one. Diversity programs are based on the same racist element that they claim they try to counteract. Liberals need to grow up and realize that generations after segregation, the ol' White Man isn't the overbearing master anymore. ALL people should be treated equally, not just ones who have skin of a certain color.
I believe you have to be at least 1/16 to qualify for any government consideration for minority set asides.
I can assure you if her great-great-great grandmother could have passed for white back then, she most likely would have done so. Native Americans weren't treated very well. I too wonder why Brown is emphasizing this in his campaign. I also wonder how he can tell someone's genetic heritage by looking at them. My nieces are a quarter Native American and have very light brown/dark blonde hair. In fact, I never realized their mother was half Native American until I walked into a family party and saw her aunt and other relatives. I always thought she looked Italian.
I wish there were "like" buttons on this comment board. I actually learned things from cogent commenters here today.
Taking a page out of Romney's playbook, are we???
The Tax debate is a non issue. he followed the law. I have an offshore account to facilitate business in foreign countries does that mean I cannot be ever be elected/ Also anyone who invest in a mutual fund of any kind even Unions, Teachers etc most likely are investing in companies that have money off shore.
The issue is Jobs. Who can create them. A community activist who has never had a job. Or a guy who runs and invest in business. This is a stupid debate. Romney sucks at public speaking. Who cares. can he get business confidence up and and create an atmosphere to create new jobs. As a entrepreneur I know few business owners who want this guy back in. for 4 years should have been enough time to tell if Obama could. Your fired Mr President!!!
The question is whether he had to take that amnesty for tax dodging. It would be politically damaging if that's the case and also why he won't release those years.
They put the box on applications as a way to identify people who should get unequal preferential treatment to undo the suffering they suffered because they are a minority. she never suffered becuase she is not Am. Indian. Therefore there is not any other valid reason except to get preferential treatment. She was a lawyer , now she does not even have a law license she know exactly what it means.
If she believed from her family history that she was an Indian, which appears to be the case, she would be a LIAR if she did NOT check the box.
This whole issue is absurd. Scott Brown is a WORTHLESS EMPTY SUIT. Warren is a crusading consumer advocate. Warrne is 100 TIMES the person Scott Brown is. She deserves to win.
Two things: First, if a Republican had used rumors about distant past Indian heritage in an attempt to get better treatment in school - whether or not he actualy got the better treatment - CNN would be talking about it with photos on page one and the Democrats would be shocked, just shocked.
Second, I wonder why it is that we're not reading anything on CNN about the fact that Ms. Warren appears to have violated state law in a big way - as well as deceived many - by pretending to be a lawyer when she wasn't! She appeared in court cases in Massachusetts, but is not listed as a lawyer in that state! To nonlawyers this may not be a big deal, but every lawyer out there knows that in the legal world this is huge. It is a jailable offense. Were it a Republican, CNN would be screaming about it 24 x 7.
Of course, if it were a Republican, CNN would also be reminding us as often as it could that the candidate had represented big asbestos manufacturers to deny claims of workers injured by the asbestos. Ms. Warren did, but CNN is silent.
And they say Fox is slanted?
Fox is slanted. They are the mouthpiece of Rupert Murdoch and Rodger Ailes. They LIE without compunction and have NEVER made a SINGLE CORRECTION to any LIE they told.
OR...there is no evidence of or even APPEARANCE of impropriety, and so CNN would really have nothing to report, other than the fact that Brown and his supporters are morons
Sorry I am not reading your book...
My Mother always told me than she had Native American heritage – back several generations. Did I believe – not so sure – but I certainly wasn't going to challenge my Mom. This is such a petty charge – that and calling Ms. Warren "professor". Since when is being a professor at a prestigious university something to be ashamed of. I actually liked Sen. Brown – I thought he was a different kind of Republican – obviously – I was very wrong.
Warren is a radical liberal partisan Dem soldier- rubber stamp for Obama and Harry reid – nothing more.
She claims to be with ordinary teachers; yet she makes $300,000 a year to teach a single class.
She claims to be for unions and the little guy; but she represents big business against coal miners and steel workers.
She attacks Brown as anti women and a danger to Roe v wade; this is just a lie as Brown is a lifelong champion of right to choose; has fought for womens' rights and equal pay; and is the most bi partisan independent Senator in Washington; if we had 300 Scott Browns, this country would be in great shape.
Warren attacks Brown's votes on jobs bills; but fails to mention that Scott voted with the Democrats and these bills were viewed by Dems and Republicans alike as bad; in fact the only parts of the three bills in question that Obama passed were co sponsored by Brown.
Warren lied about her heritage –and that alone is unforgivable and disqualifies her from office - Brown should not apologize; it is Warren that needs to apologize to American Indidans and minorities everywhere
It is interesting that Warren (like Obama) had all her college and work records sealed - Warren also refused to release tax returns for the period she worked for big business and Wall Street. Warren is a bit of a fraud and a fairy tale
Lastly, Warren claims to be with the little guy and the middle class - Waren is a multi millionarie making big bucks for doing nothing - Scott Brown is the middle class guy living in the burbs with his truck –he is with the middle class and the little guy – becasue Scott Brown is one of them. Liz Waren – a hoity toity Harvard-Cambridge snob looking to make a few bucks in DC. Massachusetts would do well as would the nation to keep a level headed middle of the road straight shooter non partisan guy like Scott Brown. As for Professor Warren, my theory is that she is not an Indian but she might be Harry Reid's sister
Bummmer another book... not reading it..!!
Sorry, you righties are the radicals, now. Warren is more in line with what the average American thinks about government and finance and eliminating corruption than anyone else in Washington. Too bad you sympathize with millionaire corporations.
She represented those "Millionaire Corporations" in workman's comp. lawsuits you idiot!!!
What's wrong with you?????
well, Bob from Pittsburgh, first you would have to learn how to read...
well thats new, a right winger slamming someone for being successful.
Who do you think you're fooling?
My favorite touch of her campaign is when she talks about how "Washington has it wrong" even though her and Obama are in a thousand pictures hugging for the cameras.
Cute pasting there, but full of nonsense. Try facts next time.
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