By Cindy Y. Rodriguez and Alicia W. Stewart, CNN
(CNN) – The Catholic Church has elected its first pope from South America, a historic milestone that has some wondering whether he should be considered the first “Latino” pope.
"I'm not quite sure how he is being considered the first Latino pope?" wrote Jeremy Marsh in CNN comments. "I guess the real question is, what is the definition of 'Latino'?"
For Julieta Vitullo, 37, a teacher and filmmaker from Argentina, the thought of calling Pope Francis “Latino” never crossed her mind. To her, he is undoubtedly Argentine.
“In South America, we either use our country of origin or use 'Latin Americans.' We don’t define ourselves as Latino. That’s more of an American term, ” she said.
But, that hasn't stopped many Hispanics from using the word.
“As a Latina and Catholic, I can't explain how excited and happy I am for Pope Francis I – the first Latino Pope! #latism” tweeted Sasha Monik Moreno.
CNN contributor Ruben Navarrette wrote a CNN piece about the long wait for the "first Latino pope":
"...[T]he news of a Latino papa has sent a jolt of euphoria through Argentina and throughout Latin America. Imagine winning the World Cup Championship times 10. There also will be a lot of excitement among Latinos in the United States, perhaps enough to reignite their passion for the church and bring them back to Mass.”
But to understand the range of who is Latino, and if the new pontiff qualifies, one has to first the understand the history of Argentina.
About 480 million of the world’s 1.2 billion Catholics live in Latin America. The former Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio was archbishop of Buenos Aires, Argentina, a city deemed the “Paris of the South.” He was born there in 1936, the son of Italian immigrants.
“His origin is very typical ... many of us have Italian (ancestors),” said Vitullo, “In fact, my great-grandparents were Italian.”
Between 1857 and 1958, 46% of the immigrants who migrated to Argentina were Italian, and 32% were Spanish.
“His parents were Italian immigrants who moved to Argentina and were quickly embraced because of the government's efforts to ‘modernize’ and ‘whiten’ the population,” said Renata Keller, an assistant professor of international relations at Boston University. “If the pope were to ever go back to Argentina, he would be both Italian and Argentinian without any hesitation.”
In Italian tradition, he would be considered Italian – similar to the way a child born to an American parent abroad would be considered American, or have dual citizenship.
“Argentines often have multiple passports because many European countries identify citizenship based upon patriarchal concepts rather than just on where someone was born, ”said Donna Guy, a history professor at Ohio State University.
However, the new pope's interests and tastes are clearly culled from growing up in Argentina. He is said to favor mate - traditional tea from Yerba mate leaves - and to be a cuervo – a fan of the country's soccer team. It also has been reported that he once took part in Argentina's national pastime.
"I like the tango a lot, and when I was young I used to dance it," he told the authors of his 2010 biography El Jesuita, according to NBCLatino.
Like Argentina, identity in the United States is multifaceted, influenced by immigration and national history.
A Pew Hispanic Center survey found that the government’s system of ethnic and racial labeling doesn’t fit easily with Latinos’ own sense of identity.
Out of the those surveyed, 51% said they use their family’s country of origin to describe their identity, 24% said they use the terms “Latino” or “Hispanic”, and 21% say they use "American” most of the time.
Labeling Pope Francis as the “first Latino Pope” may be an attempt to identify with him, since he shares some similarities with Hispanics in the U.S.
"He is also the son of migrants. And for us, Hispanics in the United States, this is very important. ... I think that this topic of migration is going to be very important for him," the Rev. Juan J. Molina, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops associate director for the church in Latin America, told CNN en Espanol. "And we, the Hispanics, the Latinos that now live in the United States ... we can also take some hope and pride that this pope intimately knows and has deeply lived the life of a migrant."
There is comfort in identifying with someone influential or in power.
As Naverrette wrote, “It's human nature to want to see yourself reflected in an organization you belong to. It's why Mormons in the United States were excited at the prospect of electing Mitt Romney president. It's why Jews were just as eager in 2000 to elect Joe Lieberman vice president.”
CNN's Catherine Shoichet contributed to this report.
The pope is Latino the way Giselle Bundchen is Brazilian.
It's funny that concern North Americans need to label everything and everyone. Perhaps they'll do so to fit in better understanding in his little world.
LATINO means you speak a language related to LATIN so italian, spanish, french, portuguese etc
I think people in this blogs are confusing ethnicity, skin color and race. Ethnicitis y is cultural, race relates with genetic/biology. Your race can be traced by a DNA study. There are no cognitive/intectual difference among races. There are not superior or inferior races . There are "brown" people among whites, among blacks and even among asians. '
"latino" is an ethnicity (culture). Pope Francis is latino. Ethnicity cannot be trace by DNA study. Ethinicity/culture is learned behavior.
There are "Latinos" of any race and ethnicity. South America, received great waves of immigration from all parts of Europe, starting as early as the 1600's. At that time, catholics in germanic, celtic and anglo countries were discriminated and immigrated to different South Americans countries. Also, italians, Irish, and Eastern Europeans. The immigrants in South America, and the indiginous people have a good relation. Indians were not kill by emigrants.
Mexico, Central America and the caribean did not received great waves of immigrants, but South America is different, South America is a melting pot.
Mexico did receive many immigrants; especially during the 19th century. Mexico is one of the most genetically diverse countries in the world.
So I'm Latino now?
Judging for your name, you are not. Latino is a very racial definition that groups all south americans together. Spanish people and italians fall into that category by association. With that mentality, the portuguese and the french will be latinos too because their languages come from latin too. Im argentinian and my last name is half basque and half french ind if someone calls me latinoi consider it demeaning and racist.
Argentians are Italian, not Spanish. The entire country outside of the native culture is Italian. Yes Italians of the Roman empire spoke latin...so in that aspect his ancestors may have been Latino...now heres what you need to do...explain to people what a latino is...and while youre at it, explain to them what a hispanic is. 99% of americans have no clue what either is. All hispanics (hispania or Spain) are part white european spanish and part mexican Indian. Ill let you handle the latino explanation.
more morons add in my list, now are the female ignorant who love compare to the male, but the cruel reality they are the best only to procreate the humanity like my Lord says, the rest the female are the mother of the vanity and cause of the fall of the men.
Most of the people in Buenos Aires are of either italian or spanish descent (more of italians than spanish). However, in the interior of the country there are, also, people of German, Welsh, Irish, German-Swiss, Polish, etc background. Argentina has 1% of indigenous population. I am of Irish ancestry and Argentina. Very proud of being argentinean, very proud of my Irish blood, very proud of being a Latin American.
Thanks, guys! If it weren't for your comments, i wouldn't know how to properly self-identify. What would I do without you Anglos?
Well if you call yourself non white and you are not 100% native american...then you have no clue what you are and anglos are trying to educate you so youre not making things up.
You mean just like they helped the Cherokee become civilized. Ya, that worked out real well for everybody.
We were already civilized. The Cherokee outside of full bloods living deep in the reservation (in NC not Oklahoma) dont hate europeans anymore. Most of us are related to both nowadays. Most of the people that come to visit us in Cherokee, NC are the children of Euro immigrants. At least they want to learn about our culture.
Go visit a reservation, ditch the spanish and learn Tsalagi...itll open the doors of real history for you.
Joke told in Mexico:
When an Argentinian sees lightning...they think God is taking their photograph.
The New-World Pope...a first for North & South America....yay us!
Joke told in Spain : how does anargentinean commit suicide ? He jumps from his ego.
Hispanics are descendants from HISPANIA, name given by Romans to today's Iberian Peninsula (Spain and Portugal).
Youre 100% correct sir. Im keetowah cherokee and irish so im part native american part european. Hispanics and latino are also part Native part european spanish.....so WERE RELATED! Stop fighting. My mom is Irish and blackfoot and is darker than most hispanics and latinos.
Francis I is TWICE Latino: By virtue of descending from the Romans (Italian) and by virtue of being born in a Latin American country.
The word Latino as used in the US does not refer to Romans, and it certainly does not apply to the way Latin Americans feel about themselves. When I hear the word Latino, what comes to my mind is brown people, tacos, lots of rice and beans, salsa, 5 de Maio, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, etc... I love all that, but I cannot see Brazilians, Argentinians and Uruguayans in their midst.
He does speak Latin.....doesn't he?
Youre not brown, youre part red and part white.
Whatever his origin, his example is one of humility; this will put him at odds with believers and unbelievers alike. People are used to seeing popes being popey...limos, pope-mobiles, etc. Francis will blow minds in the name of Jesus, thank God.
The pope is no more Latino than I am native American . Just because you are born somewhere does not make you a native of that country . My ancestors were from Europe . I was born in North America . The Pope is European by blood and was born in another continent . He is not Latino and I am not native American . If you look behind the smoke screen this is little more than a way to get money from poor Latinos that are looking for hope and a better life by donating money . Money does not get you into heaven but can sure pay the Vatican's bills . I was an altar boy by the way and all I see is a white smoke screen . Most Latinos can not even afford a Catholic education as well as most North Americans can not afford a Catholic education . But its free to go to church . Or is it ? Do you or the pope ride around in a 550,000.00 car ? You be the judge . Its your money . But your money will never get you into heaven . But money will allow popes and priest to live like gods when they are in fact nothing more than humans . The name of the game is donations !
But he does speak Latin...
Woody: Some information about demographics
Argentina population 90% european ancestry.
Uruguay population 90% eu:ropean ancestry.
Chile population 79% european ancestry.
The term Latino and Latina is used mostly by Mexicans. It was commandeered inappropriately by them. Similarly they incorrectly consider themselves a "race". Unfortunately, the media / press has started to ignorantly use the term.
Mexicans are hispanics, just like Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Argentineans, Costa Ricans, etc.
Hispanic refers to a person who is a descendant of Spain.
Latin refers to a person who speaks a language that is a "descendant" of the language Latin (Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, French, Romanian and a few more regional languages).
So, if the Pope speaks Italian and Spanish (and Latin) maybe he could be considered Latino(o).
Add to that, he was born in Argentina so he is Hispanic, and if he has Italian ancestors he could be considered Hispanic / Italian.
HISPANIC: having to do with country of origin……………SPAIN!
LATIN: having to do with the language you SPEAK, but NOT exclusive to Spanish.
How about you READ a dictionary?
The new Pope is of Italian descent, regardless of where he was born or what languages he speaks. Technically, Hispanic means related to Spain or Spanish culture, so perhaps he could be said to have Hispanic culture but not Hispanic origins. The Pope is not Spanish Latino, even though he is from Argentina; he could be said to be Italian Latino, as Latino is also an Italian word, but that is not how Americans use the term. He is of Latin descent, because his parents were Italian, just as anyone with family origins in Spain, France, Portugal, Italy, Romania are Latin. But really, Hispanic and Latino are American terms that are used to connote ethnicity but have nothing to do with ethnicity: they are cultural and language terms. The pope is still of European descent, having family origins in Italy. So he is not the first non-European pope. He is the first Latin American born pope, but European descent and being Latin American are not mutually exclusive. Claims that he is the first "Latino" pope in 2000 years are based on false logic. The Americas were discovered in 1492 to the majority of Europe; there was no such thing as a Latino in the American sense of the word at that time or before. You can only say he is the first Latin American pope since the discovery of the Americas, only 500+ years ago, not 2000. Before that the statement is illogical. There have been Spanish popes before, so he is not even the first Spanish-speaking pope or Spanish culture pope.
Well, I do believe he does speak; Latin.....
you forget they call themselves the race and the manitos.
I want to see the full, official birth certificate.
Regardless of the origin of the term "latino", it is not common fro many peoe to refer to themselves as "latino" and by that, I think most mean that they grew up in a spanish speaking culture. Everyone who uses ithe term knows it is not an exact term. The term is mostly self-asigned.
The fact of the matter is that "LATINO" is any person whose ancestors belong to those Europeans countries whose language derive from the LATIN: Italy-Spain-Portugal-France-Romania. If you look at the Latin countries you will see that Italy,Portugal, Spain, and France have colonized some of those countries. I have heard some USA white citizens becoming perplexed when they see a blond Latino. The problem is the ignorance of the USA educational system when addressing this issue. That is the reason of the shock when arriving in Buenos Aires and listening to white men speaking Spanish!!!!!
Bravo, someone gets it right!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks you Latin Lover!
Well said and never thought of this in that way! Will read more on this history.
Stop for a moment on your rethoric about the Pope being Latino, Argentinian or Italian . Was Jesus Christ Jewish ? Do we care ? Yet the Jewish nation denyied Him and Christianity adopted Him . HE ( JC ) was crucified by the Romans.... yes the Italians and now one of their decendants ...the Pope is representing JESUS CHRIST through the Church!!!!!!!! Okay start your rethoric again .
Latinos can be of any race. The pluarality of Latinos in the US though are "white."However, they are not counted in the white, non-Hispanic population. If the combined white race was actually tabulated, whites would account for nearly 80%+ of the population of the United States. So in essence, whites are not becomming the minority as is often reported. The percentage of whites in America is actually increasing.
Wrong! Latinos are the majority in California already and most of them "Brown". Actually, some Latinos mark "white" on the Census. Despite this mistake, whites will become the minority until they are gone forever. It might sound rude, but that is the trend!
Nope, you are actually wrong. You don't know that the majority of "Latinos" in California are brown. You see many brown people who come from Mexico (a few from elsewhere in Latin America), and hte media portrays this because they sensationalize things and people get brainwashed easily. If ~50% of "Hispanics" marked white as their race, then most likely they are the light skinned type. Even the mixed race mestizos might mark white, if they're still light skinned enough or have a significant percentage of European blood. Anyway, your DNA says what your descent is, so if your mostly a white hispanic you would not be incorrect to mark that. Perhaps the percentage of Anglo Americans is decreasing, meaning those of English descent, but the percentage of those with white descent is increasing. Not all called so-called Hispanics in America have European descent; the Spanish speaking Amerindians don't. People seem to forget that Spain colonized a large part of the Americas. Bottom line, Hispanic and Latino are American terms that really have nothing to do with race or ethnicity; they are actually categories for census purposes to count the number of Spanish-speaking or Latin American origin people in the US.
The DNA of most Latinos, including, some "brown" latinos, shows Caucasian heritage. Just ask any expert.
The problem here is that there are too many people who believe that the ethnic term "latino" has something to do with genetics when it doesn't. Its simply a term to describe a part of the Americas that is dominated by romance languages.
Furthermore, latino and hispanic are NOT interchangeable. Latino refers to one who speaks a Latin-descended language.
A hispanic refers to one that speaks Spanish. (To be applicable, it has to be their native tongue.)
The interesting thing is that SPANISH is a Latin derived language!
The term "latino" does not exactly means "latin derived language" it is but so precises as that. For example what about French? And English too. I think about 50% of English is from latin. Think of all the words that are the same in English and Spanish. Half the words half are the same origin.
As it is used today the word "latino" means simply a person who was born into a spanish speaking culture. Here in Los Angeles we have people who call themselves "latino" who speak very poor Spanish because they never studied their language in school, only took English in K-12. So I think the most accurate definitin is simply "born into spanish speaking culture" They may or may not have picked on the spanish language.
First it was Slavic Pope (John Paul), succeeded by Benedict the Germanic Pope, superseeded by the Latin American Pope Francis. The next pope may well be Anglo Saxon or Irish... And then, one can look to Africa and close with Asia. Seven Seas indeed!
I suggest we ask the new Pope to be genetically tested and decide on labeling him by anything else then Argentinian.
It would be interesting to see how much American hispanics or latinos would have felt a "connection" if the new pope were a black colombian, black honduran, or black brazilian. Many hispanics here feel inferior because of their skin color, (rooted in the rascist treatment from the anglo elites in thier home countries), can now fell "a part of" or "connected to" an anglo that speaks spanish. A mexican or central american has about as much in common with an argentine as he does with a Spainard...which is language. The whole race thing in Latin america is no different from the mess it is here in the US....it's just expressed differently. Indigenous guatemalans are at the bottom of the totem pole here in terms of social status but you'll never hear a hispanic cop to it. So, I'm glad people are discussing this as it reconfirms to me how mixed up hispanics/latinos are and how much they look up to spanish speaking latin americans.
Great point. The label Latino and Hispanic in the US is so confusing, not sure of what the reaction of having a black Latino pope would have been.
Ugh??? "Feel inferior"? That might be the way you look at them! I'm "brown" and sometimes I see the Anglos with sadness because their skin is not appealing and age surprisingly too much. We dont' call the blacks "Africans" in our countries like in the USA. I'm personally more inclined to prefer blacks and indigenous people (I'm part Maya) to Anglos because of the history of the colonization and treatment over our population.
I think you are mis-using the term "Anglo". It means "English" not "white". The term is very specific to a place the Romans called "Anglia". So "Anglo" means the people of "Anglia".
Ok there might be Anglos in Mexico but not a lot of them most of the people of European decent who live in Mexico are from Spain, France or Germany, very few from England.
He's just like all of them; old white male. He rides the bus? He cooks? Bah! Just more of the same.
i read about this a few days ago at work but couldnt comment cuz my android sucks.
alright even thou i'm eithiest i like to comment.. i myself was born in centrol america but raise here as a child in the USA. i dont reffer to myself as a "latino" why? because i dont live in latin america. i believe people who live in latin america call themselfs latinos. i preffer refering to myself as a hispanic since i do speak spanish ( not mexican :P)
the origion of the new pop.. well argentina is very different from the rest of the latin countries.. .. its population is like 90% european.. my home state is florida there you meet people from all over the world i had argentineans friends there of course.. and a few of them refer to each other as latinos.. they dont prive on it since they profound themselfs with their european ascentry .
and with that pope having what both parents as itatlian immigrants.. well i would say that yes he is the first latin pope. but of european decendents . a true latino ? not really since argentians dont embrace the latin term much.
also we gotta remember latin america got the name because the three mejor languages in the region are from latin .. the three mejor ones which are spanish portugues theres another one cant remember but dont think english would be it.. or could be maybe mistaken myself with romance languages.
so there.. my two cents.. yes the pope is the first latin pope.. but not fully .. from euro immigrant parents.
it woulda been nice if they had choosen someone else with a lil bit of indigenous blood in it. native centro or south american blood.
btw in the world cup everyone in latin america cheers on brazil when its brazil vs argentina. .
What s fully? Latin Americans can be any race or heritage, there is no such thing as a Latino who is not fully a Latino.
The only country that tries to classify people as latins, Hispanics, whites, etc is the USA. I am an American descentent of Italians, and think this is the most stupid classification of people. Who cares ? Why do we have to label everybody as something, like Latin, Hispanic, white. It is so prejudicious. Stop this labels stupidity
I agree with you, who cares about labels made in USA ? He is the leaader of the Catholic Church period. Like him for who he is and whom he represents... I'm not Catholic , I am an American of Mexicaan descent . Don't count me as a Latino .
in the eyes of american people yes he is latino, but what is latino ? latino is not a race latino can be any color or mixed of races , we can be brown but not black or we can be white but with father or mother indian ,
I've met a few black "latinos". maybe not many in Mexico because I don't think there was a lot of african slaves there but in other con tries you find many.
There re black Hispanics. Dominican Republic? Sammy Sosa? Cecilia Cruz? Besides many people I know from Cemtral and South America (plus I lived in Panama for a few years) call themselves American. Everyone on this side of the world did at one time
Italians migrated to Argentina as part of a state-sponsored whitening policy. Dont try soften it by appending "modernizing." The immigration policy was racist and was carried out all over "Latin America."
the pope is actually american as well, Everyone born in north or south america is american,the thing the u.s population has been indoctrinated to believe they are actually american when in fact they are only U.S citizens or at best european-american....hate to burst your bubbkles.
Yup, quite agree.
Um no, America is a nickname, short for the United States of AMERICA. It's just easier to say nothing else. The British gave it to its colony like Mexico is a nickname for United Mexican States, You two are just misinformed and paranoid.
What exactly is whitening? And why is it specifically a complement to modernizing?
Latinos and Hispanics are whites of Europe,
Not so much. They are so racially mixed up down there, every race procreating with every race which is why they have a problem saying what they are! How about not having babies out of wedlock and before 20 years old? NO, not down there. It's ok to have children you cannot support, or feed. Few people actually use birth control. Wonder why their population is expanding exponentially but yet, so many of them come to the US ILLEGALLY and are granted free money. What do they care? It's not coming from their country but ours, the ones here legally or born here.
Sorry but we are not the melting pot that was supposed to be. Not really. And thank god for that! Stick to your own!
You are right! Pretty soon, LATINOS will become the majority in the USA. Thanks to our women who were given the power of fertiity by God. Sorry!
Does it matter? The Cardinals made a very careful vote to ensure that the best person for the job was elected Pope, whether he be Argentinian, Ghanian, Italian, British, or whatever.
It is impossible to be more Latin than someone of Italian descent who grew up speaking Spanish and Italian and later learned Latin.
Is Obama African-American? His father was a middle class African whose ancestors were never slaves, his mother white middle class. What does he have in common with "real" African Americans? Less than the Pope has in common with other Latinos.
uhmm all you hispanics arguing about whether you're puerto rican or colombian or what have you.. I'm AMERICAN AND CAUCASIAN. YOU'RE MEXICAN AND HISPANIC.
Get an education. Hispanic is not a race. It is just a dumb expression invented by dumb Americans.
...and if one is Colombian or Puerto Rican, he cannot be Mexican.
Dave – son this is your father/brother/uncle/grandfather – just because you and your sister/aunt/mother are products of incest going back for generations that doesn’t mean that the rest of the world “keeps it in-house”. There are other races. Sorry I didn’t tell you this before as I was making love to your sister, picking up our food stamps, fixing the flat tire on our trailer home and getting my mullet trimmed. I love you! Wink wink!
Dave, you should have gone to school like the rest of us. Your comment does not even deserve a real response. You are ignorant and it shows
The pope is latin american, sure, but a first generation argentine from italy.. i don't see why so many latinos relate to him though.. because they speak the same language or are from the same continent?
that's like a canadian pope born to 2 immigrants. he would be North American and speak my language but what's that have to do with me?
then again, I'm jewish.. so whatever
Such a pathetic thread... He is Hispanic , Latino , White – and clearly (thankfully) NOT American!
Oh he's American alright. He's from that southern part of America.
To be clear, there are several nationalities that are classified as Latin. They are: Italian (the true Latins, remember Italian silent film star Rudolph Valentino better known as the Latin Lover), French, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian and of course Mexican. That is a known Fact. But generally, a Latino or Hispanic falls under the white race and there are many blue-eyed blond Latinos or Hispanics let's not forget, just go to Mexico or Latin America and you'll see them. But if one is speaking strictly about ethnicity it could be Latino or Hispanic though that term is usually only used in the U.S.A. and not other countries.
Mexico comes from the word MEXICA – which is how the 'Aztecs' referred to themselves. As such, the word Mexico cannot possibly have any Latin origins whatsoever! The only reason the Spanish called the Mexicas 'Aztecs' is because of their theology – which held that they had originated in a place they called AZTLAN! Mexican! NOT Latino! NOT Hispanic!
Yet there cannot be any denying the fact that many millions of people who live in Mexico are white, blue-eyed or green-eyed blonds, Temoc. Check your history! I'm sure you've seen them as well as most other people here. Those who are of Aztec or Native American origins (yes Mexico is part of North America, not South America fyi) are not the only Mexicans let's not forget! People mistakenly think that Mexicans all have tanner skins but they do not as a matter of fact. So, in effect, those who do not may have European ancestry mainly from Spain.
Some countries like Mexico, Peru, Guatemala, Bolivia were part of Great Pre Colombian Empires. (Aztec, Mayan, Incas). Those countries before the european arrival had a great civilization and a high population. Other countries were almost empty (very low population), specially in South America. Well European immigrated in great numbers to those countries with low indigenous population, like Argentina, Uruguay, etc..
Latino and Hispanic are not interchangeable terms. Hispanic is an American term. I don't know exactly what it means, but It must have some connection with Hispania, the Roman name of the Iberian Peninsula. Latin Americans or Latin Europeans don't know or use this term. I heard it was first used in New Mexico, but people of Spanish descent who wanted to stop being called Mexicans, but I am not sure.
the term latin only came back to the world because it was the name given to the american region that had those three languages that came from latin.. portugues spanish and english .. so screaw the italians that terms is for america latina( latin america) italians are just plain italians.. romanians imo are more closely related to that term than the pasta eating italians :P
English is not from Latin. It is a Germanic language.
I know I only speak for myself. However, I do NOT see the new pope as having anything in common with people of Mexican origins (such as myself). As far as I can tell, he is ITALIAN. Even if he is Argentine, what does that have to do with Mexicans? Personally, I think of myself as a Mexica (as the 'Aztecs' called themselves). I wish the the new pope the best – but I really don't see any ethnic connection to the Italian/Argentine pope – at all.
The connection, Temoc, is that the pope is of Latin origin since he is Italian and they are Latins, not Anglos let's not forget. As for Mexican, that is only one nation that is known as being Latin but there are many other European nations whose roots are Latin such as Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, Romania, etc. Native people from those countries are not known as an Anglo but rather as a Latin. Got it now?
There were many many "anglos" who moved to Latin American countries. So I'm not sure about what you are trying to say.
Do you worship the Pope? no. The pope is just the head of a small country Vatican with 1.5 billion members all over the world.
“It's human nature to want to see yourself reflected in an organization you belong to." Exactly, that is why as a woman I cannot relate to this church. Such a "deep" discussion about nationality, but where is a woman Pope in this church? (BTW, I was baptized and raised as a Catholic)
You watch Baseball, Basketball, Hockey, Soccer, or other male sport? are you reflected watching male sports? or do you only watch women sport? Having a male Pope should be indifferent.
He is Argentinian from Italian descents, a Latin American individual. Hate to bust American Latino's bubbles by saying that the Pope is not a Latino by the definition of "latino which is a term used chiefly in the United States to refer people who identify their origin as Hispanic. Therefore since Pope Fracis origin is Italian, he is not a Latino.
WRONG! LATINO is a person who is descendant from the Europeans whose language derived from Latin: Spain-Italy-France-Portugal-Rumania. Therefore, the name LATIN AMERICA because those countries colonized the area.
You are correct from the big picture point of view but remember that the word Latino was adopted by Spanish speaking American who wanted to differentiate themselves. Like African Americans differentiate themselves.
Incorrect.Latino is a Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, French and Romenian descendent. All this are Latin languages and all these are Latinos. So this pope is absolutely Latin Ameican and Latino. You could question whether he is "Hispanic". If you call Hispanic a person that is a Latin American that speaks Spanish, then he is. If you use Hispanic to describe a "race" which usually mean a non-white Latin American that speaks Spanish, then he is not.
The 'Hispanic' and/or 'Latino' ethnicity is a myth created by the US census in 1970. Frankly, even within the USA, the disparate groups lumped together as 'Hispanic' by the US census have almost NOTHING in common! For example; 30% of Mexicans are full blooded indigenous 'Indios' – another 65% are Mestizo (Indian/Spanish hybrid). Other than the Spanish language, what do does a Mexican have in common with an Argentine of Italian (or German) ancestry? If speaking Spanish makes me 'Hispanic' (or 'Latino'), does speaking English make me 'Anglo'? WHAT IF I SPOKE CHINESE???
YOU DON'T GET IT! Any person who has ancestors from the Europeans whose language come from LATIN or born in Latin Americas is.....LATINO
You forgot to include Brazilians who do not speak Portuguese, but are indeed Latin Americans. Latin or Latino is indeed a very broad and often misused term.
Correct, Brazilians are Latin Americans but not Hispanic
Another reason these labels are obnoxious. The country of Guyana is neither Hispanic or Latino yet its South American and half of the population's ancestors came from India!
American ignorance at it again! Argentine is a HISPANIC country....Hispanic meaning from SPAIN...that is the origen that is the culture......Latino and Hispanic are not the same. Portugal, France, Italy, Romania ALL are latino. ALL south America, Mexico, equatorial guinea, Philippines, etc are HISPANIC. The pope speaks SPANISH!!!!!!!
Nope. Hispanic doesn't mean from Spain. That would be Spaniard or Spanish. Hispanic is derived from Hispania which is a totally different animal.
Hispania was the Roman name for the Iberian Peninsula!!! Spain is on the Iberian Peninsula!
Hispania was the name given by the Romans to the Iberian Peninsula, Portugal and Spain.
Cats are Animals. That does not mean that all animals are Cats.
Most Argentines, like myself, do not relate to hispanic or latino in any way. Most of us are not descended from any sort of Spanish heritage and Argentine culture is clearly not hispanic culture. That's like saying that citizens of the US are English because the US was founded by England. I'm Lebanese Argentine and consider myself Argentine not hispanic. There are many German, Welsh, Russian, Slovakian, Lithuanian, Syrian Argentines whose culture and ethnicities have nothing to do with hispanic culture or latino anything. Like Pope Francis, we just happen to be born speaking Spanish, just like Americans are born speaking English.
Yes technically you are Latino and Hispanic but I get what you are saying. The way those labels are used in the US is something different. Most people from South America or any Latin American country do not call themselves "Latino".
Latino what? I came to the mainland from Puerto Rico in 1972. At that time the record described me as white "W". In the 80's the record was changed to Hispanic "H". A few years ago the record was changed once again. I am now "X". The record keepers will not tell me why I am now "X", only that they are required by the government to describe me as such. By the way, my high school drum teacher was "Argentino", his son was my classmate. I am Puerto Rican, not "X". I am not "Latino" and neither is the Pope, he is Argentinian! Just because we both speak Spanish doesn't mean that we subscribe to the same religion, beliefs nor political affiliations. Any more "X"s out there?
you are HISPANIC..and should be proud of it! you speak Spanish (poorly) and the culture is from Spain (and so are your genes)
I don't identify as "Hispanic"! I am Puerto Rican just like someone from Italy is Italian or a German is from Germany, etc. Just because the government wants to group us because of our common language for their convenience, it isn't acceptable. I have less in common with a South American as I do a Mexican or Peruvian. To me, it's offensive to be called, "Hispanic".
I also suggest that Carlos if living in the USA move back to Puerto Rico and when they table for a free PR and not a commonwealth or statehood he votes for it. PR has the cake and eat it too by being a Commonwealth and still people like Carlos complains about the US. As an American, I am sick of that kind of talk. Let PR live like the other islands.
If Balls Of Steel knew what he was talking about he'd know that Puerto Rico was an autonomous nation when the United States Of America invaded it in 1898, that in 1917 American citizenship was crammed down the Puerto Rican peoples throats only to draft 20,000 "natives" to go fight WWI for them. They COULDN'T take Cuba without great loss of life and treasure, they didn't want Jamaica, Haiti or the Dominican Republic because their people were black. But when it came to Puerto Rico they discovered that Puerto Ricans were 74% white so they TOOK it, just like throughout this country's history, we go, we see, we like, we take. All in the name of Democracy. Puerto Rico Didn't land on Plymouth Rock. Plymouth Rock landed on us. We were NOT in need of rescue, we were TAKEN and assimilated and the status quo has yet to be resolved as they label Puerto Ricans as America's Red Haired Step Children, legal aliens. Second class American citizens required to fight and die for YOUR country yet DENIED the right to vote for the Commander In Chief that orders them to their death, for YOUR country.
I am a WASP –white anglo saxon protestant- American,10th generation...but agree w/Carlos' historically accurate response to Balls of Steel.
Yes Carlos, a person who is Mexican or of Mexican descent is considered to be of the white race though there are some who unfortunately try to deny that for some unknown reason but they shouldn't and they are wrong to do so. It is on their birth certificate, just ask any government office or county clerk's office and they will tell you so. As an aside, did you and others know that people from the Middle East are also considered as white? They are. White, as a Race, is on most all Mexican birth certificates if people want to check. That is unless they are of a mixed race then it could become something else. But by and large Latino or Hispanic is only used to describe Ethnicity.
Me too. Great comment. Hate labels but proud of my heritage!
Pretty sure the root word in latino is latin(o). Latin is from Italy. I guess one could define latino as language evolving from latin roots
Latin indeed comes from Italy. Italians generally HATE so called 'Hispanics' passionately anyway! So why would I want to be called 'Latino'? Besides, a full 30% of Mexicans are full blooded indigenous 'Indians'. About 65% are Mestizo (Indian/Spanish hybrid). Pray tell, what exactly does a Mexican Maya/Toltec/Tarumara/Yaqui/etc have in common with an Argentine of Italian (or German) ancestry? If speaking Spanish makes me 'Hispanic' (or 'Latino'), does Speaking English make me 'Anglo'? What if I spoke Chinese?
Italians hate Hispanics passionately? Where did you get that from? Did they stop to consider that they Look like the average Hispanic or Latino? Speak a language that is so closely related to Spanish that any Mexican could easily understand? Many also have swarthy skin tones. And Italians can very easily speak Spanish as I've heard many and it comes so very easy to them. The Italian names and Spanish names are very closely related and are just about the same. (Lino, Roberto, Maria, Luciana, Lucio, Sofia, Federico, etc.) And their customs are just about the same, etc. so why would they therefore hate Hispanics? Doesn't make any sense since they too are Latins and are many times confused for being Hispanics!
He is a 'white hispanic'
Is Hispanic a race? I thought it those originally from Hispanolia.
no, hispanic isn't a race. his race is white but he is a hispanic. just like...celia cruz. her race is black but she was a hispanic.
Hispaniola??? Hispanic means from Spain you idiot! Spaniards are white caucasians
The Pope is indeed Latino. "Latino" means "Latin" in Spanish and Portuguese. Latin means from the city of Latio. The term is about cultural heritage, so Latino is not a race.
It implies a cultural heritage that has origins in Latin Europe (i.e: France, Italy, Portugal and Romania). Latin America includes Brazil, all the Spanish speaking countries and the former French colonies Haiti and French Guyana. Canada, although partly French, is not considered part of Latin America for being more English than French.
Hispanic is an American and it has no meaning whatsoever in Latin America or Europe. Since Latino is not a race, Latinos can be from any race. Another thing. Since Italians ARE Latins, Francisco is not by any means the first Latino Pope.
A correction: *(i.e: France, Italy, Portugal, SPAIN and Romania).
I really don't care if he's Argentinian or Italian. I just don't like Mexicans trying to claim him or use the Latino term. Mexicans are Indians...Aztec and Mayan, although there are now more than 31 tribes of Indians in mexico now. Call yourselves Mexicans and be honest. Hispanic is a generic term and you like to use it to make yourselves seem white.
actually, there are indeed white mexicans as well as mexicans of different races. you come across as really ignorant. hispanic (the term) doesn't make anybody seem more "white." most people in the u.s. don't associate the word hispanic with white at all. i'd say that most americans don't even understand the concept of a white or black hispanic person because of various reasons. the pope is a white hispanic person with parents from italy. simple. he is hispanic because he is a native spanish speaker, he is latino because he is from latin america and his is white because he was born white. end of story.
you are ignorant or worse! Hispanic means from Spain genes for many, language culture for all!!!!!!!! Spaniards are white (Caucasian) north of Spain is Celtic.....read more books please
You are completely correct, Frank, in what you say. Spaniards Are White Europeans (Caucasians). People do need to study their history books more and educate themselves to this Fact!
Nope, Hispanic is cultural as is the word Anglo, regardless of the race.
I'm pretty sure Argentinians hate to be classified in the same spectrum as Puerto RIcans.
What is that suppose to mean "spectrum" as Puerto Ricans? You sound like a very ignorant, racist person. I am Puerto Rican and my ancestors were from Spain, so who in the hell do you think you are talking too.....
Argentineans, do not believe that they are in any spectrum. We are all human beings.
Excuse me, I was born in Puerto Rico and very proud, sadly for you, I do not meet your stereotype.
In the United States too many people ignore the reality of European immigration to South and Central America as well as the Antilles. Remember the Discovery of the New World was made by Columbus under the Flag of Castile, with Castilian ships and crew. Colonization was carried on mainly by Spain and Portugal. Someone, with several university degrees, told me he was surprised during his first visit to Madrid because he found Europe. I have always resented people looking at me like a Martian because I do not meet the stereotype. Sometimes people have heard my accent and believed I am German. It seems they were looking at my face to listening to me.
What do you mean by 'discovery of the New World'? There was 30 million people living in what in now the USA and tens of millions more throughout the rest of North/South America! Really, it's been 500 years of lies! Enough already!
Yes it was discovered...by the Spanish sailor COLON (he was not Italian)...he brought the continents into history as they were in pre-history.....an enormous jump...don't you think? language, culture....the modern civilized world.
and by the way...not even close to 30 million... a few million at best, please read reputable books.
You are not the only one!. I have red hair and blue eyes!. People, have very limited knowledge about geography and history. There were massive immigration from Europe to Latin America. Some people believe if you are white, you hate indians. In S
American obsession with race is sad. Thank god I'm Canadian. You guys need to get past race, seriously. Who cares about his background?
Its fun! As for me and my family, we have direct bloodlines to korea, mexico, spain, germany, native americans. Its so mixed that we can't even keep track and its easier to just say "Human" or "American."
Oh please. Like Canadians don't have problems with race. You guys show your true colors when it comes to Aboriginal and First Nations people . Idle No More anyone?
Some Native Canadians might disagree with you.
Speaking Spanish does not make you Latino.
Whites took latin America away from the original inhabitants and now control them, the wealth, the resources, and the government.
A white person who was born in Argentina and speaks Spanish is still a privileged descendant and reminder of the conquest and subjugation of the original inhabitants.
The new POPE is still a white man.
NOthing new here, move along!
Yes, the pope is indeed Latino. The term used to describe the Indigenous peoples of the Americas is not Latino. The term Latin America was crafted by Napoleon to describe the countries with Latin European origin. The term was not created by Montezuma or Atahualpa, who had no relation at all cultural or ethnic with the Roman Empire or the Latin Language.
He is an archetypical Argentine. BTW, " cuervos" are fans of San Lorenzo, one of many soccer teams, not "the soccer team".
If Pope Francis is Latino did that make the members the SS who went to Argentina after WW II the same? He's Italian.
Why does everything have to be defined in the context of race? Or ethnicity? Why can't we all just be members of the human race?
Actually, their descendants are Argentinians just like the members of the Hitler family born in the US and using new last names are Americans.
Well how you call North Americans of Italian decent or English or Germans or any one else...Do you call them Italians, or Germans or English no you call them Americans the same happen in South America, there are many people of Spanish, German. Italian, ancestry and we call them Americans from South America or Latinos wish ever you prefer.
No reason to discriminate because the Pope is Latino. ..Latino comes from all of the Latin countries of that in Europe use to use Latin, Italy, France, Spain, Portugal, etc....So the Pope is from Argentina!!!!
As a German adopted by a Spanish (from Castilia) family, you are all wrong. The FRENCH coined the term LATINO, because they did not want to be left out and leave Mexico to the Spaniards. Remember Cinco de Mayo? The correct term is IBEROAMERICA or HISPANOAMERICA because, for good or for bad, the geographical South-, middle and southern North America was colonized by inhabitants from the Iberian- or Hispanic peninsula and that includes Portugal and Spain, i.e. Brazil and the "rest" of South America. Whoever followed, Italians, Germans, Polish, Jewish, Irish etc were hispanoamericans ("hispanics") or iberoamericans by immigration rights. So is the Pope.
Since the term "Latino" comes from the word Latin and Latin was spoken in the Roman Empire, we Italians are the original Latinos.
But he is a liar
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