Editor’s Note: Marci Weis is the chief operating officer at a healthcare consulting and care management company in Washington. She is pursuing a Masters in Divinity degree for ordained ministry in the United Church of Christ. Weis and her lesbian partner have been together more than 20 years and they have two daughters.
Washington's Senate passed a bill late Wednesday that would allow gay marriage in the Evergreen State. A House vote is expected within days. If it passes both chambers, Gov. Christine Gregoire has promised to sign it into law.
By Marci Weis, Special to CNN
"Mama, if it doesn’t pass, will we still be able to be a family?"
Those were the words of my then-7-year-old daughter on the night of the 2009 election. Over the prior months, sides had been chosen, harsh words had been hurled from all fronts, battle lines drawn. Up for vote was a referendum on whether Washington state would allow gay and lesbian couples to have several of the rights and responsibilities of legally married heterosexual couples. My true love, my lesbian life partner of now 20 years, had watched the debate unfold along with our two daughters. We had heard the harsh condemnation of our relationship, of our family.
And so it has begun again, this time for the legalization of marriage for gays and lesbians in Washington state. The battle has occurred in the legislature and most likely will move to a general election. Again, sides have been chosen and a fair number of my fellow Christians have argued that my love, my family, undermines society by our very existence. While I strongly support marriage equality, the debate over the right for gays and lesbians to marry raises a much more pressing concern for me. Why do my Christian brothers and sisters feel so strongly that my love, my relationship, my family has the power to shred the fabric of our very society?
So I have to ask, do you know my family? We are not unlike many of you. We are a family formed from the foundational love of two people, formed through tentative steps, risks taken and hearts put on the line. We moved from the blush of first love to the challenges of living in union with each other while allowing the other the chance to grow and change. We failed as often as we succeeded, sometimes learning, sometimes not. We made the decision that we were called to be together for the rest of our lives. We shared sacred and holy (though not legal) vows in front of our God, our family and our friends. On that day, we danced in celebration with our community and we danced in celebration with our God.
We chose to start a family. We lived through the heartache of infertility, trying month after month to get pregnant. We lived through the fear, the anticipation and the subsequent shocking and awe-inspiring beauty of holding our newborn daughter in our arms. Twenty months later, we held her sister, tears streaming down our faces as the four of us lay in a hospital bed, marveling at the miracle of life and love. We struggled as new parents. We struggled through a job layoff and the subsequent financial challenges many families with young children face. We struggled to remember that we were in love when faced with two toddlers whose needs were always front and center. We watched our daughters grow and change. Now, as they enter their tween years, my partner and I can begin to see flashes of the women that they are becoming and it scares us, excites us and saddens us.
Through it all, my true love, our two daughters and I have loved each other in that beautiful, flawed and ever-expanding way that we humans love. Through it all, we have tried to be good members of the communities we are blessed to walk in. Through it all, we have tried to rest peacefully in the beauty of a God that clearly shines through in our love for each other.
"Mama, will we still be able to be a family?" My daughter voiced the fear that had gnawed at her throughout the prior election season. I told her then, "No law, no government will ever take away our love for each other. It’s that love that makes us a family."
Will my partner, our daughters and I still be a family when this current battle is over? I have faith that we will be. Will we continue to feel the warm and loving embrace of a God that dances in delight at our family’s love? I have faith that we will.
Is my family really that scary, that dangerous? I do believe that ultimately the fear people have of my family will dissipate and most will recognize the healing and fulfilling power of love, all love, in this world. I have hope that ultimately my fellow citizens in Washington state, and in particular my Christian brothers and sisters, will realize that my family is not that different from theirs.
I have faith also that someday soon, the enormous wedding that my daughters are planning will come to fruition. On that day, the woman who I have been blessed to spend 20 years with will stand with me in front of our family, our friends, our faith community, our God and our children and we will reiterate sacred and holy vows. We will dance in celebration with our community and our God.
I have faith that day will come, soon. It had better. My daughters have already picked out my gown.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Marci Weis.
Where is the father to these children? Why aren't they paying child support like any normal father who concieves a child is required? How can these women rob these children of a fatherly figure? Their relationship is a sham and will always be a shame. They need to grow up and stop playing house with real children to brainwash.
SO...women need a man to have children, BUT fathers aren't needed anymore, right? Yeah that pretty much sums up American garbage.
I hope to someday build a beautiful family like yours. Your story gives me hope.
As much as you do deserve to put on that wedding gown, and as much as you DO deserve
the legal recognition of an equal marriage,
I think you're victorious already... you've found true love, and created your own family,
instilled your beliefs to your children, and effectively lived the American dream.
I anticipate the day that we as Americans, and as human beings, look back on this simple issue,
with head-shaking and feelings of exasperation and disbelief.
That day may be farther in the future than we like, or it may never happen at all,
but we still have the most important things; our own lives, our own loves,
our own freedom, our own pursuits of happiness.
While the public votes to decide the rights of people like you and I,
we persevere and look to the future, we find our love, we build our families,
we live our lives, minding our own business (unlike some...many planks in many eyes)
and knowing that even if
the majority refuses to recognize our validity, I will still be me,
you will still be you, we (the people) will continue living our dignified lives.
Nothing can stand in the way of love, and there will always be hope.
Thank you for writing this, God bless you and your family.
The "slippery slope" argument isn't the most valid one... I've heard the same exact words from someone who opposed interracial marriage.
Very sad that these two daughters are growing up without a father. "Fatherless America" is one of the huge reasons for the breakdown of the family unit, which ideally is one father and one mother. American gave up on ideal a long time ago though. Sad....very sad.
That is absolute garbage. People grow up fine without a father. People also grow up to be horrible having both parents. Also, how can we be decaying? Wasn't racism legal 50 years ago? Slavery 150 years ago? America was never any better.
I sincerely believe a 2 parent house does enhance the quality of life and the family. However, I am not so sure gender matters. I don't know that 2 loving women or 2 loving men can not provide the same thing as a man and a woman provide. By the way this is from an old guy who lived his entire life in Indiana, growing up on a family farm. I had the stay home wife rearing the 2 children. Certainly the quintessential "family values" life. I truly believe in 2 parent household, just no gender requirement.
What complete and utter nonsense.
Why should the government or religion even get involved?Honestly,if two people,no matter what the gender,genuinely love each other,who is some politician or some guy who thinks he can talk to God to say otherwise?
Would you approve of two brothers getting married legally? How about one man and twelve women? If you accept gays getting married and getting busy in the bedroom, then you cannot discriminate agaist the other groups I mentioned above.
I think that there is nothing wrong with two gay people who want to get married and start a family. If the bible says that such a thing is wrong, well then maybe the bible is the one that's wrong.
I may have been too broad.If a gay couple wants to get married,let them get married
I am just curious.
1. How did two women have a child?
2. How do they decide who is the "wife", the one that shaves?
It's all a big joke. They are just deviants trying to get attention.
1) Sperm donors.
2) Clearly, they're BOTH wives. Maybe they both shave, maybe neither one does. Is it your business?
....and who do you open the door for....both of them or just one? Because even in a lesbian relationship, one clearly acts like the husband (butch).
Now you're just using gender roles and stereotypes. :/
How about whoever reaches the door first holds it open? It's that simple.
i think the deviants getting attention are those protesting against gays having the right to marry
EVERY CHILD THAT IS BORN IN AMERICA IS BORN WITH HUMAN RIGHTS, EITHER MALE OR FEMALE CHILD.YET THE GAY COMMUNITY IS NOT SATIFIED WITH THE HUMAN RIGHTS THEY WERE BORN WITH, AND HAVE TO HAVE GAY RIGHTS.
I THANK GOD THAT IN THE CHRISTIAN FAITH THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GAY CHRISTIAN. .
You make it seem like they want special rights, when they simply want the same rights as the rest of us. And if you think your religion should determine someone else's choices, read the 1st Amendment.
for your information, i know several people who are of the christian faith AND GAY! huh, funny isn't it when you fall off your high horse? does it not say in the bible There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus?
I AM a GAY christian. God made me this way, no doubt. Growing up I truly doubted my own purpose in living and tried to end my life, because I knew I was gay. It is not humanly or divinely possible to pray the gay away, I know this for a fact. I also know that God has blessed me in multiple ways with my loving wife, and beautiful child. We go to a wonderful church that embraces and loves us and our child, and we ARE the only gay couple there. God teaches about love, acceptance, kindness to one another. The venom the "christians" spew about gays is un-christian like, rude, and dead wrong. And I hope that God forgives you, as I do.
Hey - its RIGHT THERE in the Bible. 1 Samuel 18:3 "Then Jonathan made a covenent with David, because he loved him as his own soul." The rest of the story of David and Jonathan goes throughout 1 Samuel. David and Jonathan, not David and Joanne!
Why must religion lead to so many complications in this world?
Marci, you are awesome. Blessings to you and your family. You are a living witness to Love.
change will come, I know it because it is coming in me. I'm a right-leaning, conservative, evangelical Christian who has never thought much more about this issue than what the pleas for donations in my mailbox everyday have to say about it. A friend recently shared her deep pain with me over some in our church who have ostracized her entire family since a teenaged son came out of the closet. The shock over her story motivated me to begin to research this for myself and I am seeing God move me out of my complacent pew to being a gay ally. I have looked at biblical arguments from the far right to the far left and I am convinced that there are bible believing Christians who seek to honor God with their lives who disagree over the interpretations the modern church has given to these verses. We in the church have done much harm to these image bearers who are in a weaker, minority status in society. We are called to loosen the chains of injustice, not be the oppressors. If you are a Christian who can't understand how another Christian can hold this view or one that is struggling to love and understand a gay child, two websites that have been helpful to me as I walk this journey are canyonwalkerconnections.com and gaychristian.net. Bless you Marci as you seek to live in a loving, monogamous, God honoring way. It is the quiet witness of people like you who will ultimately overcome hatred and misunderstanding, not only from straight society but also from the spiritual forces who would seek to convince the GLBT community that living a wild, promiscuous life far from God is what they are destined for. That is not God's heart for anyone. The human soul is designed to find fulfillment and joy in a relationship with Christ regardless of orientation. Peace.
Thank you for your words. Would you like to come and talk to the churched that I have been in recently? My "wife" and I are trying to raise our girls in the church but it is so hard sometimes when you go to mass and these Priests whom have never been married or know the kind of love that we have preach of fire and brimstone to our young children. I would like for my daughters to have a strong belief in God because I can't see it any other way, but to be told every Sunday that your family is going to hell is hard on a 7 and 10 yr old heart. We have looked at other churches in our area and have been turned away from quite a few of them. Most weekends my wife still takes our daughters to church because the little one is making her 1st communion and it is required but I am thinking that after it is done with we will have a little bible reading at the house without Radical Priests and their interpretation of what the bible says, we will get it from the source.
Don't give up on God because the witness of His children is so blind. Of course your girls need know the love of Jesus and what he did for them. There are loving, affirming church's out there who will stand up with you for the sake of your family. Don't be afraid to consider another denomination if they are going to love you and point you to Christ. The power of the internet is a great resource to educate yourself and find hope where you might be tempted to think there is none.
YM, I can only imagine how hard it must be, but there ARE churches that are open, affirming, and welcoming of gay families. Mine is one of them (in Seattle area). Keep searching.
Try the UCC (United Church of Christ), or Unitarians, Quakers, Swedenborgians, some Presbyterian churches, and some United Methodist churches. Presbyterians and United Methodists don't ordain gays, but many are struggling against that, and many of those congregations are very loving and welcoming. Blessings on finding Christian spiritual community for your family. It IS out there!!
I'm a straight middle age agnostic. What you have written is powerful. Copies of your post should be put in every pew, chair, prayer rug, etc.
I wish you peace and success in your family's journey.
I refuse to give up on teaching my girls about God, but I have no hope of finding a church "home" anytime soon. See I live in Louisiana and we have one of the most backwards thinking government and people that I have ever seen. What you see on TV in Swamp People and such are very extreme cases of backwoods people from this state, no one here really talks like that, but the state as a whole is not much more progressive. And southern churches are the worse of all. After 1st Communion to make the grandparents happy, we are done with fanatical, radical churches and their radical degradation of my family. I don't care what people say she is my wife and they are my family. I am the protector and I will protect my daughters from the crazies.
YM, ahhh, Louisiana. Yes, I know Louisiana well. My mother is from Louisiana, and her entire family still lives there. I do know what you mean, and I am so sorry that you have to go through that. I hope things will get better. I hope you can feel God with you, helping you through this tough time. Please know you are not alone!
You are a good person kingsgirl.
Touchy subject. Where to start. I agree with seeing people living in love, in principal. Just seems that being trendy 'gay' has been misleading some with mental and relationship issues. I believe some people are truly gay, it occurs in nature. But I also beleive in God, and what was said to us. Making babies outof of pure spawning instinct without marraige was never the intention. Life is about God and commitment to God. Having respect and having honor. I see that thru trying to bring acceptance to gay community in all areas, many have been mislead and are far to quick to jump on the trendy bandwagon for acceptance and attention. To go with God is to put God first. Maybe if you have thoughts that dont go with God, that was your challenge in the first place.Something to look at and consider.
You believe in your version of a god. Fine. By all means live your life according to those precepts. But, the majority of the world does not believe in your god, and the vast overwhelming majority of the world does not believe in your particular version of a god.
The US is not a theocracy. Thus, neiither your version of god, nor any version of any god, has legal standing in our laws. What your particular version of a god wants, needs, desires, or demands is irrelevant.
I strongly believe Jesus would read Marci's post and be proud. Proud of a woman authentically devoted to her beliefs, and even moreso to Jesus' message of love. Jesus never once qualified what kind of love – just love. Your family sounds wonderful and a model for us all. Keep on posting, Marci!
Where did marriage come from? Who designed marriage? God created man and woman and joined them together by marriage. No other combination is acceptable in the eyes of God. Call it what you want but it is NOT marriage.
So hard-hearted of you Mark. The Bible has a lot more to say about hard-hearted Christians than it does about Gays and Lesbians, you know.
Marriage and paired bonding existed millenia before your cobbled together version ofa god crawlwd onto the scene 6000 years ago.
Thank you Mark, well said...
Call it what you want, just afford my family the same benefits as yours. The US is not a Theological state therefore God should not have any say in what is fair and equal. Not everyone's beliefs are the same, you have freedom of religion, I just want the freedom to provide and take care of my family the way that you can take care of yours, whether you believe in my family or not. I believe in my family and that it is equally as much a family as yours is, and that is all that matters. Religion has no place in goverment, that is why people formed this country, freedom of religion and from tyranny. Equal is equal whether you believe or not. 40 to 50 years ago many people didn't believe black people should be able to vote, go to school with other kids, or marry anyone out of their race. Tell me how that is different from what is happening to my an my family?
Love you Marci! So happy for you and your family and will be fighting to make sure WA upholds the law if it comes to that this fall!
Straight people really have made a mockery/ mess of marriage. Why don't we let gay people have a try at it? See what they do with it. And when we all get comfortable with that, we can move on. Like, what if someone is "in love" with their cat, or dog or horse? Well, only if it feels natural to that person of course. Who are you or i to judge another's feelings/ desires? Free love, right? And when we get all comfy with that, just for FUN, lets start handing out marriage licenses to sets of cats, dogs monkeys etc.! Who really CARES? as long as you feel GOOD!
Again, the "slippery slope" Argument. A logical fallacy of the most Ignorant kind.
To all of you who say that I should not be able to raise kids, I want you to try to take my children from me. See I was married and I had my child the biological way. I got married to a man, had my daughter 18 months later, then found myself single for the next almost 10 years. I was looking for my soul mate and met a lot of nice guys, but no one that felt right for me. I reconnected with an acquaintance from high school that was in the same situation as I was, and it hit me like a ton of bricks. I never looked at women that way and still don’t, it is just her as a person. I want to spend the rest of my life with her but I want her and I to be able to make the decisions for each other as we get older and if either of us gets ill. Why should she or I have to bring papers from a lawyer with us everywhere, giving us the rights that all the “Married” people take for granted?
Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness should be universal and not be based on any version of Theology. The division of church and state says that it is supposed to be separate. Keep your religious opinions out of civil rights for all people, no matter their color, disability or gender preference.
The division of church and state does not mean that religious people should not be allowed to vote based on their beliefs. That does not make our society a theocracy, far from it actually. Is that not bigotry or discrimination, to discount someone's opinions simply because it is an opinion tied to religion? What we are trying to do as a society is redefine what marriage is, this will have significant consequences for all members of society. I do not wish to deny happiness to anyone, I also do not belief that we should change the laws everytime somebody redefines what happiness is.
But the division of church and state does mean that just because a majority votes for something, for whatever reason, if it is abrogates someone else's civil rightsthen it is illegal. I am not really interested in religion's opinion of proper love and marriage.
To all of you who say that I should not be able to raise kids, I will tell you to try to take my children from me. See I was married and I had my child the Christian way. I got married to a man, had my daughter 18 months later, then found myself single for the next almost 10 years. I was looking for my soul mate and met a lot of nice guys, but no one that felt right for me. I reconnected with an acquaintance from high school that was in the same situation as I was, and it hit me like a ton of bricks. I never looked at women that way and still don’t, it is just her as a person. I want to spend the rest of my life with her but I want her and I to be able to make the decisions for each other as we get older and if either of us gets ill. Why should she or I have to bring papers from a lawyer with us everywhere, giving us the rights that all the “Married” people take for granted?
Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness should be universal and not be based on any version of Theology. The division of church and state says that it is supposed to be separate. Keep your religious opinions out of civil rights for all people, no matter their color, disability or sexual orientation.
Why can't my posts be accepted? I didn't curse or use unacceptable language. Is this opinion board being censured for some particular reason? I'll try again and be careful of what I write.
If all of those who are vehemently opposed to gay rights for marriage and family, saying that they would turn against and deny any of their own children who find themselves to be gay? Are these the same "religious" people who refused to life a finger to help their sons and daughters who were dying from AIDs? So many parents wouldn't even allow their dying children into their lives or homes when they learned they were afflicted with AIDs. They did that because their "religious" beliefs removed all of God's compassion from their hearts.
Our world is filled with evil and always has been by the lies and deceit taught by every religion. No one needs to "belong" to any religious money making crime organization. We can all believe in and pray to our Gods without anyone else's interference. In fact, the very Bible these hatefilled people claim to follow tells us to pray privately and not to exploit the will of God.
Organized religious is just a business selling Jesus for money to those they can exploit. Just note that today, every famous Evangelical leader in America has turned their religious groups into family run businesses and all are turned over to their sons when Daddy dies. They live in multimillion dollar estates, have fleets of private jets and live wealthy lives. Meanwhile they beg money from the poor and undereducated while selling them lies that they can only get to heaven through their donations.
If this is supposed to be a lesbian couple, whose the dude in the picture?
Lesbian couple = two women. There is no dude!!!
You know, religious groups have been advocating for gay marriage since marriage was around. That is, as long as gay people marry straight people.
When people like Newt Gingrich can marry 3 times (so far), cheat on every spouse and disrespect them in every way, and then shrill for "family values" to not include ALL people....
Worry about your OWN life, fill your own family with love & morality. Stop worrying about other people.
Not sure how heterosexual adultery constitutes as argument for homosexual marriage. Try again.
If that lifestyle remained private, there wouldn't be anyone worrying. Once something goes PUBLIC, it becomes everyone's business. So keep that mess in your own house and out of our view, and your business will remain your business.
political agendas and political correctness will catch up with you. If you dare present this agenda or your rights as
gay or lesbian in an Islamic culture. Believe it or not see what is coming towards you next.
so, comparison to an islamic country is justification for inequality in our own?
What a sound argument... Here we go again. "If we let gays get married sharia law is not too far behind."
It must be miserable to be so full of fear.
Funny how the people that are against gay marriage always say "This goes against my religion and it's forcing me to accept a lifestyle I don't agree with." This is only true if you were forced to go to gay weddings and have gay friends. You want to be a bigot, that's your right. The religious freaks in this country better get with it because if they can take away our right to freedom of marriage it might not be too long until someone can take away their right to free religion. Think about that jacka$$!!!
This argument isn't about religion. It is about people who only feel secure themselves in a society where they make all the rules. Today we see the members of so many religious cults behaving just like cult members do, it is their way or no way. Homosexuals have no bearing on the lives of these cultists but frightened people who fear they are losing the ultrawhite privileges they've always enjoyed, are being told that certain people will overtake their lives. This is the stuff that dictators use to frighten their masses to adhere to a party line. That party line cleaves to all the haves, but leaves the have-nots to suffer beholding themselves for the scrapes the leaders throw to them. Personally, these cultists only real argument is about the sex between two homosexuals. This intrigues them as sex usually unspoken in the cultists realm. Gay marriage and child rearing will prove to be more moral, more long-lasting and produce better chldren because they do not rear their children in ignorance and intolerance and in the false prophets who claim to speak for Almighty God. No they don't speak for Him, they speak for money and power exceeding anything that God can imagine.
NoOn8 – You tell 'em!! I loved your post and agree100% w/ everyone who's said that legal marriage should be available to all! ♥
Their religion has already been stripped from them once they step outside of their private property and enter the public world. In our society, It's ok to be gay but not religious (Public School System).
Well, dick, here's the deal – the god of the christians, jews, and muslims, commands that you go out and kill gay folks. Your muslim cousins have the balls to obey your god. Wonder who your god is more pleased with? The muslims who obey his command to kill gays, or you guys who refuse to do as he commands.
Exactly where in the bible does God say to kill gay people?
Katie – Leviticus 20:13 says it... which of course the anti-Gay 'Christians' desperately try to ignore, while quoting Leviticus 18:22 over and over again...
Here we go again with the false anti religious interpretation of the Bible. You are confusing GOD's law with the laws of Moses. GOD only has 10 laws (Commandments) and Leviticus 20:13 isn't part of it.
Remember that Moses was still only human and did his own interpretations, which does contradict GOD's commandments of not killing (murdering).
I can't even believe this is an issue...EVERYONE has the right to be married. I really hope, for their daughters' sake that this passes and their daughters can see how us as Americans have evolved away from the bigotry that once ruled this country.
It won't let me publish the word hom#se#ual
haha! Thats why i had to use "those people" b/c it wont let u post the word hom#se#ual! hahaha! Apparently its more acceptable to say "those people" then to use the actual definintion. The "H" word. So funny. Guess i have to say "gay"
Boy, that must have hurt!
No, it didn't hurt, i just wasn't as descriptive.
They probably want us to use the word "gay" to create the illusion that they are happy being wrongful-lust-addicted perverts. See Romans 1:18-32
2 Corinthians 6:3 or Romans 14:13 "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way." Yet every day Christian's quote the bible as you do, turning people further from fellow Christians and further from God. We allow the better to be the enemy of the good and in so doing become promoters of even more sinful ways.
Paul wanted everyone to live chastely, but he provided a blue print of taking the path of least resistance in "it is better to marry than to burn with sin." The same should apply to all of those whom Christians wish to counsel; "I wish that you could be like me, but if you can't...[least sin option here]" Instead we castigate and alienate and in so doing we put them on a path to more sin; lies, lust, adultery, envy, etc.,. At the same time we try to send a message that says "God loves you and wants you" and the first message of hate makes the second message of love seem disingenuous.
Toby, your god commands that you kill gay folks. Are you obeying him? If not, why not?
Marriage is laughable/ meaningless these days. Marriage has gone to the dogs. Might as well give it to these people as well.
Marigold by calling anyone "these people" I can see the bigotry and racisim coming out your pores.... crawl back under your rock and live your happy little life in your own little world.
You are clearly channeling the ghost of Archie Bunker. When you and YOUR PEOPLE die off, so will the bigotry and the stubborn refusal to evolve.
Couples with reproductive power don't die off. you got it backwards
You people shouldnt talk about those people like that
us people dont like it
Why are only some of my comments being received?
God must be censoring you!
Are there certain key words they censor?
The "H" word is one
Why do my comments not appear
Because you're an ignorant, uneducated bigot.
well i guess saying bigot is not as bad as hom#se#ual apparently
Because they are pointless. Makes sense to me.
If they want to be married just let them be married. Like this should be such an important issue. How about instead of wasting my tax money on whether abortion should be legal or pot should be legal or gays should be able to get married, make it all legal and move on. They should spend it on something useful like helping to create jobs for the masses of unemployed. But NOOOoooOOOOoooo even though I vote and speak out like many others it does not matter. United states of wedontcareaboutourpeoplegtfo is how it feels.
This family is making a mockery out of all of those recent celebrity divorces
This is how it should be,and sad that it even has to be an issue,that it has to have a story to legitimatize it,that fools even respond with half of their idiotic comments.
Good for your family,wish you the best.
You didnt say that when you were sucking my d1kk last night
Wow.....strange discussion. Apparently most of the commenters here are from the states. Last time i checked the USA was not officially a Theocracy. Why are so many of you so obsessed like acting like it is? I suppose the concepts of the Enlightenment, Civil Rights and Human Rights have just passed you all by....and you take great joy in ignoring the teachings of this "Christ" person you profess to worship. So...ignorant and hypocritical - not a very satisfying way to get through life i would imagine.
That's the difference between where you live and the USA. Our mouths are not being held hostage. I can't be given a fine based on an opinion. Socialism is on its way to fascism. Thank goodness for freedom of speech. USA!!!
Yes we have freedom of speech. But I could never understand why so many of you are so proud to be ignorant?
i am from the usa but i do not live ther... i do not like what go on there !!! like the gas price u think 3$ a gallon is alot mmm try 2$ a liter .. and people with no health insurance casue it coast to much.. and for the people that say they bleave in god ... some of them do not go to church at all
Ah, friend...you have not visited the States then? We only pretend to yell about freedom, but really the govt controls most of our lives as well, oh and the "Christians"....as the daughter of a minister in the south I can say that in the south, sometimes being a "Christian" has nothing to do with God's love, mercy, forgiveness and grace. In most of the US "Christianity" is a platform to condemn all other religions as "baseless" and "cults"...oh, and to disrupt beautiful loving families like this one...
I would like to challenge the LGBT community and it's advocates to answer this:
1. Are anti tobacco advocates bigots? Do they hate the smokers? Do smokers call them bigots for campaigning against tobacco?
2. Are the MADD (Moms Against Drunk Drivers) bigots? Do they hate everyone who go to bars/ liquor stores/ parties/ clubs/ etc? Do drinkers call MADD bigots?
If you answered NO to any of these questions, you are automatically hypocrites and hold different standards for yourselves than the rest of us. Religious people are no different than the above advocates. Yet, they are regularly ridiculed and scrutinized while the Jews, Muslims, and others who share the same views relax in the shadows. Very interesting.
Another question: Are the biblical verses in the Old Testament which demonizes the LBGT community, originally Christian? If not, why are they (Christians) being placed at the front lines of bigotry towards gays? What about the Jews? Did you know that the Hebrew Torah was the original demonizing force towards the LGBT community. Why exclusively bash Christians? Why aren't Jews and Muslims included? And what about the millions of atheists who happen to share these views as well? Where is their bigotry? Why aren't they questioned? It's a 2 way street that the LGBT community will continue to ignore.
"If you answered NO to any of these questions, you are automatically hypocrites and hold different standards for yourselves than the rest of us. Religious people are no different than the above advocates. Yet, they are regularly ridiculed and scrutinized while the Jews, Muslims, and others who share the same views relax in the shadows. Very interesting."
Correction, Jews and Muslims are rarely ridiculed. I was referring to Christians in that sentence.
Wrong. If the fundiot (fundamentalist ldiot) muslims and jews were on these threads castigating and denigrating gay folks, they would be held in the same contempt as fundiot christians.
I'm curious, your god demands that you go and kill gay folks. Just how many have you murdered?
Your post is nonsense. Why would you compare being born gay to smoking and drunk driving? There is no associatioon between the two.
Claiming being gay is wrong because you think your version of a god wants you to think gays are icky is irrelevant.
We aren't a theocracy. What ever your version of a god, or any god, wants, needs, desires or demands is irrelevant.
Dude, are you serious? You only focused on what you wanted to in regards to my post. If I have to break it down elementary style so that you can understand, then so be it. I'm comparing the whining of bigotry toward those who don't agree with you. You want to play the stupid apples to oranges game because you have no real dialogue or argument. If you along with others broaden your state of mind instead of your stupid feelings and emotions, your jaded view would become clear.
The definition of bigotry is not exclusive for the LGBT community to use against others. Again, we are comparing the use of the word bigotry between selected groups with their own beliefs and orientation, and not necessarily gays to substance abusers. But if we make that comparison, at least substance abusers are smart enough to know that these people don't hate them, but they despise tobacco, drugs, and alcohol. The same with religious groups and those who disagree. We dislike the actions but not the vessel itself. Why? because human beings are copy cats by nature. Anything labeled as norm could persuade someone who wasn't accustomed to that norm to be curious, and that's what is happening in the adolescent world. Our kids are easily influenced. And to many of us who plant our morals and values into them don't want them experimenting with that.
Where did I use the word GOD in my posts? BTW, I'm not religious.
Nonsense comparison, smoking and drink driving are personal choices that can have negative effects for those people nearby. Being gay is innate and has no ill-effects on straight people nearby, expect the prejudiced ones like you who get all hot and bothered about it!
Well, this post right here was going to be my rebuttal.
Nicely said sir.
This is probably one of the dumbest, poorly thought out arguments I have ever had the misfortune of reading. Good luck at your community college.
Odd Post. I have never seen a single incident whre any of those groups or associations have been denied the right to legally marry by their detractors. Can you please provide statistics? Thanks.
All religions are hypocritical and bigoted. But, the fact that you would compare gay advocates to MADD and smokers shows your lack of intelligence. Do not try to defend yourself cause you showed your as$ buddy. Gay people don't cause cancer or drunk driving. These people are not advocates for "traditional marriage" they don't like gay people and want to use their religion as a scapegoat for their own bigotry and to dictate what other people do. Civil rights are not to be voted on. Lets put your rights up for a vote and see how you like it.
Responding in parts, since their 'filter' doesn't tell you what your text violation is.....
Ok, I’ll bite.
1. “Are anti tobacco advocates bigots?” – Some are, some aren’t… “Do they hate the smokers?” – By the way they look at a smoker when they light up, you might think so… “Do smokers call them bigots for campaigning against tobacco?” – Why would they? Smokers and non-smokers alike agree smoking is not healthy; there’s no debate there.
My response to the comparison: Smoking and its effects on health and community are for the most part widely accepted by both sides. I don’t know many smokers that don’t want to quit for one reason or another. The LGBT community members, on the other hand, don’t have a choice in their status (contrary to bigot’s claim that being gay or tr@n is a choice; were straight people always straight? If gay/tr@n people ‘chose’ to be so, when did straight people choose to be straight?).
Sorry to burst your little free willed- bubble but there are many out there who chose to be gay. Just visit a local prison sometime or ask a lady who was physically and/or s*xually abused by men, and are resentful towards all men as a result.
2. MADD …. Bigots? Again, drinkers (when sober… lol) typically acknowledge the impact of being drunk while participating in activities they shouldn’t (driving, boating, working, etc.).
I fail to see why answering NO to either question qualifies me as a hypocrite. While I do not agree that religious people are no different than the above advocates, I, like those that I @ssociate with (I.E., not all LGBT community members ‘flock together’ so to speak), do not ridicule or scrutinize them for their religion. To the contrary, I respect their views and opinions so long as they do not attempt to force those opinions upon others as undeniable facts when they are not. But if a non-smoker were to try to force smokers to adopt specific behaviors or views based on their own belief under the guise of unfounded claims expressed as fact, I would not hesitate to label them as a bigot.
As for the demonization of the LGBT community by ANY religion (or lack there-of): My personal interpretation of retorts and accusations by BOTH sides is that neither side shares a common understanding of the other. One of my favorite quotes (which I do NOT know the source…): The path to righteousness is seldom traveled by a multitude of understanding. I acknowledge that I don’t know everything about any one thing, religion or state of being.
As for the demonization of the LGBT community by ANY religion (or lack there-of): My personal interpretation of retorts and accusations by BOTH sides is that neither side shares a common understanding of the other. I acknowledge that I don’t know everything about any one thing, religion or state of being. But when others claim that they do, and then claim Divine Providence dictates a specific behavior, change or punishment, I draw the line. Far too much time has p#ssed since the ‘original’ writings of the Word of God or most other writings in the name of Divinity to be able to claim the current tr#nslations are without fault or void of possible miss-interpretation. One thing that sets me apart from the majority of the LGBT community is that I really don’t care what others think about me. The one thing I DO have in common with nearly ALL LGBT community members is that I believe I have the right to live as a HUMAN BEING, and with the same rights as all other humans, regardless of my religion, se#ual preference or understanding of self.
Now that you are done venting. For the last time, I'm not comparing substance abusers with gays in the way that you obviously WANT to view it, unless you lack comprehension. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming your literacy skills are on par.
It seems that the LGBT community and their advocates have played out the word BIGOT. I'm using these selected substance abuse groups as examples because there is controversy which is similar to the 3 religions vs. the LGBT community and advocates war that's going on. Just like most anti substance abuse advocates don't hate each other but still disagree, neither should religious groups and the LGBT community. But the way you and many others seem to view things, you would NEVER have gotten that message.
I have mixed emotions on this topic. I am a straight male who has grown up with a gay brother. He has never wanted to conform to what society was doing. He is happy just being the way that he is. For you too say that you are upset because you can't marry or that your family disturbs others is just as badly as those who feel that way. Many families have a gay person living among them whether they know it or not. I would just be happy with who I am.
The flip side of that is, I don't believe a gay couple should be alowed to have children. This I do not believe is right. I would say it to my own brothers face that I don't think its right. Now, that is an extreme opinion, but really all that child is gaining is a life of being ridiculed. You as the gay person "chose" this lifestyle. And yes I do believe it is a choice. I don't believe you have the right or anyone has the right to subject a child to such hate and discontent to the rest of the world becuase you had needs as well.
I do think you thought about your choices and everything you stand for. But what are you standing for now? You have a family, but that isn't good enough. You are a typical person. You can have the world and you are always going to be left wanting more. Life just isn't going to be good enough for you until you feel like you are "equal." By the way, I don't think you will ever feel that way. One day you will say how you got looked over for this because you are gay, or you got a ticket because you are gay or they don't like you because you are gay... When are you going to accept that you "chose" to live a harsh lifestyle and with that lifestyle comes a lot of difficult times along the way. 20 years ago when you said you were gay, you would have never thought to ask for anything... Now this new sense of the "Me Generation" that is all its about. This isn't about every gay and lesbian out there. This is because your feelings are hurt and now you feel like it is your time to shine. I wish you the best of luck. And I hope that you teach your girls what the bible says vs what you are doing especially since you are church going people. I hope that when your daughter gets older and realizes that she doens't have a typical family, you can see the look of confusion on her face, because now you have made her different. You have given children something to pick at her about. You have made it harder for her to succeed in life. I just hope it was all worth it to you.
I am not going to argue what I believe versus what you believe except on one subject. Her children. As a child growing up, kids will find any reason, any reason at all to pick on other children. Glasses, being too tall, too short, red head, foreign looking, having no parents, having only one parent, being adopted, etc. Why does it matter that her child may one day be asked by another child "Why do you have two mommies?" Are you saying that people who look foreign are bringing it upon their children to be teased? Because they are different? Because it is their choice to raise their child in a country where they are different, are they making their children suffer? And why are you hoping that her children suffer? Whether it is her choice to be gay or not, as a christian, you should NEVER wish suffering on a child of God, no matter WHAT the reason. And the fact that you are doing so truly makes me question you and your faith.
Marci- I know that growing up with a loving family is what is important, and I'm glad you are teaching your daughters that as well. I wish you and both of your daughters the best of luck, and if they ever feel upset due to others teasing them, for whatever reason, I know you will be able to help them handle it.
This is a very weird opinion… Are you in essence saying that red-headed or ugly people shouldn’t have kids because one day their kids will be picked on? So we should start genetically engineering people for the sake of avoiding bullies in school? You must be a high schooler to have come up with something so short sided.
Yes. Redheads and unattractive people should not reproduce.
It's a shame that you think gay people should not have children because the world is full of bigots like you who judge them and ridicule them. So, overweight people should not have kids because more than likely they will be overweight and those kids get picked on so they are being selfish. That's the same argument!!! The person I feel sorry for is your brother. He has a sibling who is so narrow minded and bigoted and doesn't love him enough to think he deserves to live and be treated like everyone else. I really hope your brother is smart enough to cut you out of his life. It's people like you that make this world a less than desirable place to live. Gay people are born gay, but you have chosen to be an ignorant bigot.
When did you choose to be straight?
I am making a conscious decision to be straight everyday, but it's so hard! I see lesbians enjoying this fun lifestyle living in fear of bullying or being outed at work and fired by some bigot or getting disowned by their families. Man, it sounds like so much fun while sleeping with my husband and having complete societal approval is such a drag. I don't know how much longer I can go on!!!
this is a beautiful article. I met you a handfull of times over 10 years ago I still feel the impact of those meetings now. You were and still are an inspiration. Love is not something that can be defined by society, its a personal thing. I fail to understand how a family that is obviously as loving as yours can be wrong and defined by gender. A family is a family is a family. Nobody or bill can stand in the way of that.
Well if they give children good life then who cares?? gay couples seem to better at raising children as they take it seriously and they plan for it properly.
And straight couples don't? Talk about having a superiority complex laced with bigotry. All of the millions of straight couples who carefully planned for their children in the world aught to be proud of what you just said.
Not as much as gay.
Obviously you live in a dream world since you are visibly able to see every straight couple in the world and how they plan for their offspring. Time for you to wake up.
Why does society need to validate them? Society is under no obligation to do so. They can't force what other people think, it seems like they are doing so partly from their guilty consciences- deep down they know it's wrong, so they try so hard to get everyone to give them a sense of approval for their sin. All people are sinners and are welcome at the foot of the cross to receive forgiveness for their sins and allow God to empower them to live according to His will. Gay acts are not His will, no matter how much a person feels they cannot change. As long as a person acknowledges their sin and is open to God helping them they are totally accepted, no one is perfect. But denying sin denies God's grace to cover sin. A person has a
free will but that doesn't mean everyone else must grant approval for what they do through changing marriage laws. They may change state law but they cannot change moral law any more than they can change the law of gravity. Gay marriage is morally wrong and always will be.
Society can't force anyone??? Obviously society forced you into the belief that being an idiot is acceptable.
toby: perhaps modern man doesn't see "sin" as did bronze age man
toby: you have no authority to state what is or is not "morally wrong".
You seem to want to force your religious beliefs on others, the US is not a theocracy (even if your type want it to be!)
Indoctrinate the youth through gay marriage. Nice try! Not as long as people like me are around.
From reading your comments I feel as if your threatened by lesbians, for they don't fall in love with you. Like some twisted form of rejection. I'm going to assume that is what fuels your hate based on your comment about them not wanting white males. Our country has long strived to overcome people fearing change and fearing what is different. This is our next hurtle and we as a country, one state at a time will overcome this prejudice. With or without you agreeing. You are going to become the minority. The minority of bigotry.
Fortunately, people like you WON'T be around after awhile because as nature shows us, when living things can't adapt to anything, learn or grow... they usually just die out along with their antiquated ideas. RIP The Puritains.
Bigots will die off. Good riddance
They sensor this stuff bro
Your community does a great job of segregating themselves and closing out people, especially white males. White males are the enemy! HAHA just live your life! You look like a family to me so just be one, and stop confusing your daughter with things she can't comprehend.
I am a lesbian. Some of my best friends in the world are straight men. My wife and I don't discriminate. Don't make assumptions.
He's just going up and down the comments section like a raving lunatic posting his idiocy. What a turd he is.
why does my comment not appear?
You know its not just Christians that don't believe in your lifestyle.
This is very true. All types of close-minded religious sects don’t support gay rights. But the Christians are the ones who are spending millions every year trying to keep this family from enjoying health care rights, tax credits, child custody rights, etc that a straight couple would get.
Just as there are Christians who *do*... sorry, you had an argument there, I just know it....
"Why do my Christian brothers and sisters feel so strongly that my love, my relationship, my family has the power to shred the fabric of our very society?"
The Gay and Lesbian lifestyle is a deviant lifestyle. The child's mental learning will be poisoned, as they will be forced to watch this deviant behavior with no real defense against it as it will be the only lifestyle projected.
there are a lot of children that grow up in less then desirable homes ans till turn out right (not that a gay household is lass desirable) does that mean single parents are horrible too?
Seriously??? Did you really just say that???? What rock do you live under?? The only thing that can really corrupt a child's mind like that is abuse and the hateful retoric you are spewing...go ahead...i'll wait while you get out a dictionary...these children are LOVED....why does that bother everyone so much? People are DIFFERENT....I suppose you walk the straight and narrow and never stray from the "path"...except you are condemning a group of people that you do not know and have no authority to do so..that would be God's job...not YOURS..maybe you should spend more time praying...
I don't want to be cruel to this very kind lady and her cute family, but I am compelled to say that the "god" that she made her vows in front of and danced with was Satan. Many people have made this mistake and continue to do so today. One day you'll see this is true. I know God, and while I don't always understand His ways, I know they are right. She questions whether anyone can break up their family. The answer is a resounding "no". Time; however, will. Her family is very different than mine, more than she knows. My family will last after we die; hers will not.
"You know god but dont understand his ways" is the key line there buddy every considered that these 2 people in love for 20years and raising children as a family is one of gods ways.
Well I hate to break it to you but in the same fairy tale your "god" condemns gay marriage he also condemns the wearing of clothing made of two fabrics. So assuming you own a polyester article of clothing you are just a bad in gods eyes as two guys diddling each other.
Steve L - God doesn't make mistakes. And if God doesn't make mistakes, how come he continues making three in ten humans gay? I'm a Christian and I believe in the bible. But the bible is man's interpretation of God's word and it is continually evolving, just like society. After all, we don't continue to own slaves, we allow divorce, et cetera, et cetera.
God knows what he or she is doing!
30%????? Where did you get that statistic?
Steve, this is why religion is poison. Listen to yourself! You'll use your religion to justify any sort of judgemental BS.
Ethics means doing what is right, no matter what you're told.
Religion means doing what you're told, no matter what is right.
All religions are like that. It's poison for the mind, and for society.
With the God given free will, everyone has the right to choose what they want to be or do. Christians have to accept that, can we force them to do what God says is right? No. Have people committed horrible acts in Gods name to do just that? Yes.They have the right to do it, we have the right to tell them of the love of God. Do people who call themselves Christians say these things lovingly? Gandhi said it best "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians." What Jesus said and did, and what people say and do in His name are to different to compare. Even daemons believe in God, that doesn't mean they will be saved, you have to follow the will of Jesus and God and the Holy Ghost, love God, and love every living soul on earth. If anyone says something against a human being in the name of God, beat them to death with a Bible and let them find out just what God wants from us.
I agree! Im a christian and i dont get why the majority of professing christians think the "right" thing to do is to try and control people.
Ms. Weis, you have a lovely family. I support gay marriage BECAUSE I am Christian, and look forward to the day when all the states recognize the right of two consenting people to enter into legal, valid marriage regardless of gender. It's a shame, in this day of rampant divorce, that people who want to make lifetime commitments are not allowed to do so, and their children can't enjoy the legal safety of two married parents.
Fine be gay or lesbian and make it so but DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO RAISE CHILDREN !!!
Why not? I have seen straight parents raise some of the most absolutely disgusting little spawns ever to be birthed onto this planet but I have never seen a gay family that didn't seem relatively stable.
Anyone who can raise children in love, grace, and mercy should be allowed to do so.
Funny, I was thinking the same about bigots
So let them sit in an orphanage being neglected or bounce around to foster homes....that's a great plan... (SARCASM)
In the 70's I worked with 2 women, school bus drivers in California. One was originally from Denmark, she had 2 daughters, the other from Mexico was childless. They were very nice,polite, very clean and neat and did a great job, were responsible, caring and private. IThey were like by all 53 other bus drivers. I had a feeling they were Lesbian partners, but would never of insulted them by asking. They did not display or act out any of their private life or affection in front of anyone. Years later, they purchased a home together and that is when I knew they were a couple. The daughter they raised were very beautiful , very well cared for and , unconditionally loved. They were 4.0 students all through school. They participated in a wide variety of sports , band social groups and charities. Graduated , attended college, one is a dentist, married with a daughter and son living in Denmark with her Dentist husband, the other daughter is a surgeon, married and living her life with the man of her dreams. ""Love"" people....is simply love . They are not just lucky in the life they made for them selves, but the life their Lesbian parents guided them through because of the love they all shared.
Why, exactly, is one group's moldy old book filled with hate speech allowed to have any influence whatsoever upon the laws of this country?
Sounds a lot like wanting to impose shariah law, except it's a different moldy old book full of hate speech.
Because it's their religion and what they believe. And they have just as much right to participate in the legal process as anyone else does. Who are you to say they don't have a say?
THIS COUNTRY WASN'T EVEN FOUNDED ON RELIGION – it was founded on freedom FROM religion you idiots! The founding fathers were NOT Christian... they were deists! I swear, you'll read the bible because you can't comprehend an actual history book...??? That doesn't even make sense! So regardless, your religious beliefs do not trump civil liberties and they do not get to dictate what the rest of us believe here. You want your Jesus nation? Move back to Bethlehem.
Not all Christians feel that way. I view gay marriage as a civil rights issue, and believe that two consenting adults who want to make a loving, legal lifetime commitment to each other should be allowed to do so.
1) if Christians/anti-gays get their way, it directly impacts another group of people's right to pursue their freed om and happiness on their own terms.
2) if gays get their way– it has ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on the lives of the Christians who hate them so much.
That was in reponse to LKHAMBLIN, by the way.
It does have an effect if gays get their way because they will now try to sue others who disagree with them. To have no effect would require the gay marriage bill to not only exempt churches from participating but also wedding planners, bakers, and photographers, and adoption agencies. As of now, these people will be forced to participate against their wills. How fair is that? Not really live and let live is it?
toby: they will try to sue people who disagree with them? do you sue people that disagree with you? people can try to sue over darn near everything/ whether they prevail is the big question.
I hope that one day when looking back, it will seem absurd that there was once a time when everyone wasn't free to marry the person they love and the mother/father of their children. It's time for acceptance and love in our society. Let's stop hating each other over the way that we were born and start appreciating loving families, no matter what form they come in. Any child is lucky to have two loving parents in their life.
That time is coming. A day will come when our children will sit in history class and laugh at the stupid neo-cons in the early 2000's for their attempts to persecute and discriminate gay people, much the same way we laugh at the folks who used to keep slaves and argued in favor of that practice. 20 years from now, we won't even understand how anybody was once that ignorant....
When my wife and I were getting married, we went to my childhood church. And we were told it would be a battle to even have a commitment ceremony. But my pastor told me that one day it would look as foolish as those who opposed interracial marriage when people opposed our union. And I hold onto that.
Why does the media put so much attention on the poofs? Nobody cares. Next.
What's a poof?
Then why are you here posting?
If God doesn't exist I have nothing to lose. I have lived a nice productive life. However, if you find that Jesus really exists, you're in for a nasty surprise. Stop drinking the koolaid this nasty media is feeding you!
I have lived a nice productive life as well. Why would I be in trouble?
If God would only have me as his friend if I went to church every Sunday to worship him, why would I want anything to do with the egotistical ass?
That is a great question that NO ONE has the answer to. It depends on how much you want to risk or what your beliefs are. Lets just hope your beliefs don't become the object of your demise.
Wow, you're so smart? Wait, Pascal came up with that back in the 17th century? And it didn't make sense then, either? You don't say...
That little argument has two major flaws. The first has to do with arguing for a particular reason. If it is your position that not only does God exists but that God exists and his nature is "x" (let's say, the Christian God), then the argument doesn't even support your position. There are many monotheistic religions, and they are all essentially incompatible. This means that if God exists, ether only one of the religions is correct or none of them are correct. So, by believing in a particular God, the probability that YOUR particular belief about God is correct is scarcely more probable than the atheistic position. You are only marginally more likely than an atheist to believe in God in the "right" way, meaning that you are only marginally more likely to end up with a favorable afterlife. In other words, absent any evidence that any religion is more likely to be correct than any other, YOU as a believer are in just as poor a position as the rest of us. Of course, this all depends on a faulty assumption as well: that God actually CARES if you believe in him or not.
The second problem with Pascal's Wager is that it implies that one can simply choose to believe something one does not think is true, and furthermore, that God would be satisfied with anyone making this choice simply because they are afraid of an unfavorable afterlife. The first is an assumption entirely unsupported by fact (can you believe that the sky is red if you just want to believe it enough?) and the second is, at best, implying that shallow, self-serving faith is acceptable to God. Neither is very supportive of religion.
Now, if you try to use this as an argument that God ACTUALLY exists (rather than an argument that it is merely preferable to believe in God), then you end up in the realm of logical fallacy. To assert that anything is true simply because that truth leads to either subjectively or objectively (in this case, VERY subjectively) preferable consequences is called an appeal to consequences, and is quite silly. The end of hostilities between Palestinians and Israelis would lead to the preservation of much innocent life (certainly a preferable consequence), but that is NOT EVIDENCE that it will actually happen.
Oh so I should worship a fairy tale man just to be safe? Well in that case I have news for you friend the God Florgoy came to me and a dream and said hes going to send you to burn in a pit of lava for all eternity unless you turn and follow him! Do not deny the truth! You have been deceived by the deceiver Yahweh who is the king of all lies turn to Florgoy He died so you may live!!
if a different god exists, rahul, you may be screwed
Just so you know, this is actually a well known philosophy. It is called Pascal's Wager It was of historically of great importance. So, if you stumbled on this yourself, it is very impressive.
I think that if God is exists, he would be ok with this family.
I used to care before but I no longer care. I'm single and will stay single. To hell with morals and ethics and society in general. We each have to answer to God individually one day. To each his own.
I'm going to love it when you find out that God doesn't exist.
"We each have to answer to God individually one day."
Thinks its funny how lesbians try to act manly & are attracted to other butches & gays act more feminine than straight women ( i know not all do, but most). Doesnt make sense to me, why be attracted to man that acts like an extremely feminine woman & not just like actual women. Think they are confused
I think you're an idiot.
It doesn't have to make sense to you. If you aren't attracted to a certain type of person, don't date that person. Why should other people's preferences make a whit of difference to you?
It's genetics, something that is CLEARLY beyond your comprehension. Drop the science book and go back to the NASCAR.
You're kidding right? My wife and I are both feminine. We wear makeup and carry purses and wear dresses. Many lesbians aren't butch – you just can't see us or believe we are gay.
"I know not all but most"... Oh yeah? So your saying you have come into contact with "most" gays and lesbians? I don't think they are the ones who are confused.
Apparently you are just closed minded and know nothing about the LGBT community. My girlfriend and I are both feminine and not butch at all.
It doesn't make sense to me, Brett. Why are some men more turned on by bleach blonds than brunettes?
To me, this looks like a loving, happy family. I would welcome them to be my neighbors. I would encourage my kids to get to know their kids. I would explain to my kids what gays and lesbians are, so they are not ignorant. And, as a person of character, I would expect my children to defend children of gays and lesbians from all teasing and harassment. When my children are old enough, I would let them date these kids, bring them to our homes, take them on camping trips, and take them horseback riding.
The values I teach my kids are love, inclusion, and compassion. And that is where I stand on this issue.
Best response so far! Thank you for sharing.
If more poeple did that the world would be a better place
I am a gay 16 year old and the fact that this is even a question anymore astounds me. The choices I make on who to love should not affect another. If I want to marry my partner, why should someone be able to choose whether or not to allow it?
I am a 16 year old KKK member and the fact that killing someone that is inferior to me is absurd. The choices I make on who to hate and kill should not affect another. If I want to kill someone, why should someone be able to choose whether or not to allow it?
P.S.: this is a parody so all those to literal and no sense of humor don't take it to far. I AM NOT ACTUALLY A KKK MEMBER AGAIN THIS IS A PARODY. I AM AGAINST RACISM AND HATE CRIMES COMPLETELY. PLEASE READ ALL OF THIS BEFORE YOU REPLY BACK.
har har. Unfortunately your analogy fails, because killing people/hate crimes is beyond the realm of personal life, whereas marriage to whoever is not. Marriage falls under civil law, violence under criminal law. THAT's why your analogy doesn't work.
i understand that however again it was a parody and not to be taken seriously now take the dick out of your ass and settle down ok thanks.
That isn't a parody. The word you are looking for is "moronic."
dummy. you're BAD parody has no point. go home and read a book or two.
Your choice to be what you are depends on your belief in God or not. If not, then do whatever you think you can get away with or what makes you feel good and to hell with anyone else. Cuz in the end, we are not the ones you will have to answer to.
Okay, Mr. Common Sense. Explain it to me: How EXACTLY does another person being gay harm YOU or ANYONE ELSE?
I hear a lot of Christians here talking about what the bible says, and what being a Christian means, but, by their words here, I think they may have missed a point or two in Christ's example, which is their right. I will be judged for my sins, and only mine. That leaves me very little time to worry about anyone elses!
To be Christian is to be Christ-like. Stop trying to convince us that Christ had something we need. It's really the other way around. We have something that until we beat it, and get rid of it, we will never be Christ-like. Christ had NO EGO! He did not belittle others, he loved everyone, no matter what others perceived their sins to be, he showed love and respect to everyone he came in contact with. What is in our heart defines us, and if love is in your heart, then you are closer to being Christ-like than anyone who spouts hate and uses Christ's name as an excuse to do it.
If you recall, his Father destroyed a couple of cities for doing exactly what our Governor is going to sign into law if it crosses her desk. I think they were called Sodom and Gomorrah....
Read your Bible. Those cities were destroyed because gang rape was considered normal and acceptable. They were totally willing to gang rape and murder a woman instead. It wasn't about gay.
America can be so backwards.... The silly things we preoccupy ourselves with. And once again religion is to blame.
I'm fairly confident you could trace most societal conflicts in our history back to religion being against someting in some way.
And yet they would not have those two beautiful children without the aid of a man.
So what? My partner is adopted, does that mean his parents were somehow unfit to love and care for him? Children do not make a family, LOVE does. have love in your life.
There is more to the equation than simply LOVE. It all depends on where God stands in your life. Not all LOVE is good. For example, a serial killer LOVES to kill. That doesn't make it a good thing now does it?
That love is love in semantics, not the kind of love that is being discussed here. You are talking about love in terms of enjoyment, not love in terms of affection. There is a huge difference between the two. Do not let the English language's use of the same word confuse you.
The Bible said God is love. If God it Love, then love, as pure affection for a person as it is, without compromise, is good by definition.
You are so right, but what does that prove? That you need sperm to have a baby? Lots of straight couples need donors too. Not exactly cutting edge news, but I'm glad you're fighting for all that knowledge of biology, soon you will watch a birthing video, try not to puke.
From The Seattle Times, yesterday, 1/31/12:
"The Rev. Joe Fuiten, senior pastor of Cedar Park Assembly of God Church in Bothell, is troubled by the introductory section that begins: "It is the intent of this act to end discrimination in marriage....". Characterizing the state's marital laws as discriminatory, he said, sets up churches like his and their affiliated operations to appear discriminatory in the eyes of private funders that may in the future consider them for grants."
This cracks me up because what this Reverend says he's troubled by is that his religious organization may be perceived as discriminatory in the eyes of private funders.....BECAUSE IT IS! LOL!
He's more concerned with how his organization will be perceived than by the fact that his organization is in fact discriminatory towards gay people. Quite telling really. Religious priorities have always seemed backwards to me anyway though.
Religions don't like to be reminded that their entire system is based on bigotry and exclusion. They also don't like to be reminded that they fought HARD in this country to deny voting rights to women and people of color based on a few silly passages in the "good book"...ha! They used the same arguments, it will damage American society to include these two group and give them equal rights. Most people today are too stupid to realize they are being led by their nose rings to the slaughter house along with all the other cows.
hey leo no religious grouped tried to deny any rights to people in fact they were the leading abolitionist in the mid 1800s. and also helped women gain there rights. Im not siding with any religion I'm just stating the misinterpreted facts that you said.
chuck, you fail at history. There's a reason that Susan B. Anthony (as one example) absolutely hated Christianity. Care to guess why?
Oh, and read up on the history of the Southern Baptist Convention – you know, one of the 3 largest Christian denominations – and why they formed in the first place. One clue – they didn't like 'checkerboard' congregations.
Well Leo, one day we each will find out for ourselves what is true and what isn't. Let's hope you make the right choice and don't have to pay too much for your mistakes.....
Crocker – your insistence that every person will have to one day answer to your version of god is beginning to sound quite desperate....are you really that insecure that others can and do believe differently than you that you continue this attempt at scaring people into believing as you do?
The conversion tactics of guilt and fear – staples in any good religious fiction.
Perhaps the solution to his problem is to strip all religious organizations of their 501(c)3 status and instead treat them like private clubs, which in essence, they are. That they are receiving favorable tax treatment seems egregious to me. Especially while receiving that preferential treatment, they are using funds to actively attack civil rights seems dead wrong. And to be frank, if I was planning on getting married to my partner, the last place I would go would be down to the local pentacostal church, where I know they dislike the gays. These people are making up a laughable argument. Why would any of us want to get married at a private club whose beliefs are at odds with our very beings? If a photographer doesn't want me to PAY them to do my wedding, that would be their financial loss, and I would move on to someone I would prefer to have my money anyway. This seems like a non-issue.
Love thy neighbor, unless they are gay. Isnt up to "God" to judge? I'll stick to my favorite creed, do as you will, and harm you none.
Well, there are 3 words for love in the Greek, (the Septuagint from which this passage is partly translated.) In english you can love cheese, your dog, your child, wife and etc. They way you love your spouse is different from the way you love your dog, or cheese, or children, agreed, and all are different – unless you like k-gogi, which puts dogs and cheese in the same category...
What if your neighbor is a cannibal? Can you love him, or will he love you, especially in a nice cream sauce?
I'm pretty sure the majority of gay families and people, do not cause harm to other human beings, like a cannibal would. How are they affecting you in any way? Your beliefs are yours, and it is up to God to judge them. It is a non issue to a straight person.
It doesn't surprise me the level of ignorance around the gay-lesbian reality, what does, is the violence used. People continue to attack this fact of nature in the most vile way with the only argument of religion. Religion is the real problem , it is a cancer that should be terminated, if you are not able to separate your subjective belief from reality then you live a life full of lies and limitations. The cliché about the 'liberation' religion provides is false, it is the lie preachers from all cults want you to believe to keep you prisioner. The true liberation comes from respecting your fellow men and women and living your life with decency and compassion.
BTW, religion has NOTHING to do with faith!
Eyes so that they cannot see, and ears so that they cannot hear, Alejandro.
Fools are those that chain themselves to anachronic and violent dogmas and, on top of that, use them as weapons to attack mercilessly at others just because they don't have the courage to understand that life and nature are bigger than themselves.
You, sir, are an anti-Muslite.
Great! An entire generation of children who were raised to believe that one of the two genders of humanity is completely unnecessary.
Not the appropriate message.
I wonder what message is being sent by hetro couples that abuse, beat, and starve their children.
Are you suggesting that ALL hetero couples beat, abuse and starve their children, or are you just congratulating this lesbian couple for not doing so? Is your message that is you have a biological mother and father and that they live together their children will be abused? Is this the message? This is what you are implying.
Since that's not actually the message being conveyed other than in your own mind, your statement is invalid.
This is simply untrue. These children are not raised to believe men are unnecessary. And children of gay men are not raised to believe women are unnecessary. Just because there are none in their immediate family does not mean that they are bad. Just because you don't have a dog, or an espresso machine, doesn't mean they're bad. Or to make a more apt metaphor, just because a family is of only one race, it doesn't mean that others are bad or unnecessary. This analogy, therefore, does not carry.
Actually Kate, it does send a very mixed message. In fact it would seem to those Kids as if men are Not necessary. Gay is fine. Gay parents are not. Sorry! It is just wrong and it should not Be allowed. Where does it all end? Children are the product of a man and a woman, Not two lesbians. So just leave the kids out of the equation.
s. Lutz – so your solution would be, what, take these kids away and throw them into the foster care system?
s. Lutz, you are a yutz.
if the bible told u to stick your finger in a light socket would you do it? none of your anti gay remarks stem from anything other than what some piece of book says.
Can you please explain to me logically why these anti-gay people dont want gay marriage, I just dont get it and there are never any stories explaining why.
We'd be so much better off if the Biblical censors decided to exclude the book of Leviticus from the Bible ... all of the hate-filled bigots couldn't use it as justification for their prejudice, and baby boys would be sparred from mutilation and get to keep their foreskins.
Whoa! Hold your horses. Before you do that, I would like to invoke the passage on putting to death Adulterers, specifically certain presidential candidates.
Jesus let her go.
Blessings and best wishes for success for you and your beautiful family.
I honestly wonder how the 'good Christians' on here feel about what happened to Matthew Shepard. Do ppl like that abhorrent Fred Phelps speak for their 'Christian family values'?
It is true what the Bible discusses, that the sin of one tarnishes the entire group.
Whether this is the appropriate response to your expressed idea I leave up to you.
Anyone in your family ever commit a crime? By your measure, then all of you are criminals and just as guilty and should suffer the punishment.
Funny thing about most religious people Dizzy – while they will adamantly condemn people like the Phelps clan, they do in fact hold to the same beliefs...they're just not as activist about it.
Kinda like how when Camping was making his latest "end time" predictions and all these religious people were attacking him for being an extremist....while they themselves believe the same frickin thing, they just disagree on the timing! LOL!
I am very impressed by the remarkable advances in technology which have enabled such remarkable inventions as the "Web" and the manner of publication of thoughts and words at such a lightning pace; it is truly awe inspiring.
Would the meaning behind these words match the ease at which they are published. By tortured logic, appeal to anti-deluvian works of literature, ad hominid argumentation, and the proverbial "gut check" you do a great disservice to the blessings of liberty.
The self-same liberty which provided men (and women) with the opportunity to invent new technology such as the "web" must be allowed to expand, except that we might slip back into the dark ages which cursed man-kind in the era before the enlightenment.
When we disenthralled ourselves from Britain, we specifically rejected a monarch who had claimed to be appointed by God. We were determined to be governed by men (and women), by laws and by reason.
I am deeply disappointed in the level of American discourse.
Therefore, I will continue to spin in my grave like a roasted pig on a spit.
The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye. The more light you shine on it, the more it will contract.
– Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.
It could also mean the more light it reflects...
Thank your parents for breeding ignorant trash such as yourself.
I am pretty certain Jesus said he did not come into the world to condemn us. He also said the two most important commandments were to love your neighbor as yourself and love god. That being said, how is persecuting gays christian behavior at all?
perscuting isn't, WARNING however is a completely different story.
Oh, the arrogance! It never ceases to amaze.
The Bible calls it a sin. It also calls drunkenness and lasciviousness a sin, too, and lots and lots of other things.
Jesus says there is only a single sin that cannot be forgiven, and it's not 'gaiety', as it were.
However, without faith there is only the law, and you have only to break a single law to be guilty of the whole law.
He that has ears, yadda, yadda.
Yadda, yadda...and doesn't Leviticus also say it is a sin to wear clothing made of mixed fabrics? And to have a tattoo? Yet it also puts a specific price on humans as slaves. Quite the good section of the good book. While you are convinced that gay people are sinners, I am equally convinced that you sin against God who made all in his image.
Great article. As more people discover that gays are just like the rest of us – and only want to be treated with the same respect and given the same rights – it will be harder for those who hate to stand behind their Bibles and use the pathetic excuse that, "God told me to hate them."
Gays are just like the rest of us in the sense that a) we are all sinners, b) God loves them too, and c) God will forgive them if they repent and admit their transgressions. These people are not repenting – they are seeking to spread the misconception that gay behavior is indeed acceptable. They are also exposing children to "wicked" and "perverse" practices...nothing admirable here.
Do you repent each time you enjoy seafood that doesn't have fins or scales? And if you have children, I really hope you had your wife "bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering" (Leviticus 12:6) otherwise she is still considered "unclean" and should be put to death!
Perverse practices? You mean taking them to school, reading to them, taking them to soccer practice, providing food and clothing, comforting them when they are hurt?
Nonsense. My wife and I raised two gay and yes – straight kids. You don't know what you are talking about.
I don't subscribe to your antiquated, extremist, Middle Eastern cult's faith. I, like the majority of people on Earth, do not follow The Bible, and your beliefs mean nothing to me. I DO, however, believe in common decency, morality, and equal rights for every American.
There is nothing more perverse than the belief that religion is still necessary or needed.
I have nothing against religion.
Seriously, I don't. I think it's bull, of course, but I have no objection to it, and I'm certain it has loads of valuable affects. (Of course, millions of people die in the name of religion every year, so maybe the world would be a better place it religion was less "If you don't do this, you'll go to hell" as opposed to "be a good person, love everyone, and don't try to force your opinion on anyone else"- I don't wander up to religious people and tell them they're idiots.)
It is arrogant and bigoted to assume that you are better than someone because you are different. The Bible says "love thy neighbor," not "love thy neighbor, unless thy neighbor is gay." You preach acceptance and then lay into someone for something that is none of your business.
If their was a god I wouldn't like him much- sitting on unlimited power while children starve in Africa in the name of "free will" while at the same time condemning people for their beliefs, religion, and race is a bit hypocritical for my tastes.
The Bible says very clearly in Genesis 19:6, Leviticus 20:13, Deuteronomy 22:5, Romans 1:25-26, 1 Tim 1:9-11 (NIV) and 1 Corinthians 6:9-7.1 that gay behavior is “wicked”, "detestable", "an abomination", "unnatural – perversion", “contrary to the sound doctrine” and "immoral", respectively. Are these words of hate or words of warning? There is nothing outdated about God’s Word. Uproar is expected from people who refuse to repent and conversely want to legitimize their sinful behavior...
I don't subscribe to medical advice from 2000 years ago and I'm sure as heck not going to subscribe to some book that has talking snakes, virgin births, magic fishes and loaves and some guy who supposedly lived in the belly of a fish for three days for my spiritual guidance. You might as well use Mother Goose – its all fairy tales.
BTW – Deuteronomy 21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them.
Throw rocks at your kid lately?
No way. My daughter has only cost me money from the day she was born. This is certainly good news since America was founded on biblical principles.
Leviticus also says I can sell my daughter into slavery, does that make it right?
So, how do you stand on Gingrich:
"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Congratulations, you can cherry-pick phrases out of the Bible to suit your hatred of people different from you!
Please tell me, how many other verses from the Bible do you choose to ignore in your daily life without feeling need to repent for them while at the same time condemning gay people?
And for the last time, being gay is NOT a choice as your name implies ... trust me, I know, God made me EXACTLY how I am and I can no more choose who I love than you can!
God does not create something inside a person that makes them gay- it really is there personal choice. he is the creator of all things wether you ackowledge that doesnt take away from its truth. when we choose to act out in our sinful desires we are doing only what we want. James 1:3" Let no man say when he is tempted ' i am being tempted by GOd' for GOd cannot be tempted by evil nor does he tempt anyone" and "choosing" to love someone, well, actually love is a choice not a feeling. another reason why the family is detiorating in this country because we base things as sacred as marriage on something as fical as "feelings". we dont always "feel" love for someone but we act out the characteristics of love
"it really is there personal choice..."
Spelling aside, you know this as a fact because you're gay, right? I mean, otherwise you're trying to say you know more about being gay than we who are actually gay do, while not even being gay yourself. Which of course is illogical, irrational and at the very least, quite ignorant to claim.
itzachoice: dip your crucifix in a vat of lubricant and then sod-o-mize yourself
Oh yeah!!!! Itzachoice might just like that action!
Another Christian throwing stones. God loves SHINES on through you? You are the type of person I think of when I picture a Christion. Wow, God must be proud. Oh, wait until judgement day...you might be in for a not so nice surprise. I would love to see the look on all of the judgmental Christians faces when they find out all of the judging they did of others on earth turns out to be there ticket to HELL!
its not judgement, you take our "opinions" which is actually truth and get offended.. why? because we all have GOds laws written on our hearts and know right from wrong but some choose to disobey, were not calling you names, were not destroying who you are. the Non-believers on here on the ones that are extremly abusive but its ok. John 3:20 " For everyone that does evil hates the light, neither does he come to the light, lest his deed should be exposed"
Yep, and just think of all the people that they are turning away in their self-righteous wrath... didn't Jesus give some very explicit WARNINGS about Christians who thought their dogma was so important they could push people away from Him? Oh yeah, something about committing suicide with a millstone...
Leap forward to the New Testament and see what God's love is all about.
Itzachoice, I hope you don't wear sweaters and jeans together!
Leviticus 10:19 http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=citation&book=Leviticus&chapno=19&startverse=19&endverse=
Why is your screen name Itzachoice? We are all christians just as much as you are and we can all be just as good or bad people as the straight girl sitting next to us. I truly believe I was born this way and if I'm not living a life to make myself happy then why should I live at all? What do you have to say for the "christian" communites that have the highest teen pregnancy rate, that they made a sin but they can repent their sin by how? because it's too late they already concieved a child. Well, it's too late I already realize how unbelievably happy I am being in love with a girl and who are you to say I need to stop being happy. God loves everyone and if I believe and have faith in god and if I live a life as a good person then I will see ya there in heaven holding my girlfriends hand. P:S: its not a choice.
"You shall not wear a garment of different sorts, as of woolen and linen together." I bet you wear polyester you filthy hypocrite.
Hisloveenduresforever, I am a Christian. I am straight. And I stand firm in my belief that God made us all a certain way, including gays. And who are we to say that what God made is wrong? I cannot stand by and allow "Christians" to use the Bible as a weapon of hate without standing up and saying enough. So ... ENOUGH!
i'm so sorry that you have been mislead but being a christian is a follower of Christ, hence the name. if you are a follower of Christ you believe on the foundational truths, that God was made flesh born as Jesus Christ, born of a virgin, carried our sins (everything from our thoughts, to being gay to the worst possible thing) died on the cross, rose again and that the bible is the inspired word of God, written by sinful men. if you dont believe those things my friend you have been deceived and are not a christian. with Love i ask you to please find a true God honoring church.
YOU ARE A BLASPHEMER! HYPOCRITE YOU WEAR CLOTHING WOVEN OF MULTIPLE FABRICS YOU ARE NO BETTER THEN THE FILTHY SODOMITES. I HOPE YOU ENJOY YOUR POLYESTER BECAUSE IT WONT PROTECT YOU FROM THE HEAT OF HELL!!
You'd fit in nicely with the Pharasees.
Well Helen, as you are a Christian, let me introduce you to the brick wall of religious beliefs that the rest of us are already all too familiar with.
"A good parent is someone you don't have to recover from."
A very well-written, thoughtful piece. I commend the author and wish her and her family many blessings in the future.
You’d be amazed at all of the diseases that q ueers get, due to their unclean lifestyles, e.g., oral-anal contact.
You are truly uninformed.
Give me a break. I suppose your idea of S-ex is Missionary position with the lights off, no talking and then you adjourn to your seperate beds when it's over. O-ral, a-nal, toys, roleplay....all practices commenly used by hetero's. Grow up from you 1950's notion of intimacy.
Lesbians have the lowest rate of STDs and STIs of any demographic.
And at the moment, the demographic of HIV that is rising the fastest is.... straight old people.
Gene – if you're not gay why do you care what gays have? BTW – ever seen the stats on straight STDs?
I have been out for years and the most damage I have seen towards our (Gay's and Lesbian’s) children were from their peers and general acceptance from society as a whole because their parents were Gay. It was the bullies in schools, the children in the local playgrounds and parks. Children from families that have not taught acceptance- love thy neighbor – love the sinner- hate the sin.
I am a Christian, I am gay and I have taught my kids the family values I was raised with, unfortunately I could not shield them from the people who did not raise their children with the same family values.
My children and my friend’s children had to learn about acceptance the hard way – how to accept others despite the unchristian behavior and hurtful words of hatred. Shame-shame.
We must take responsibility for what our children take into the streets, what they learn at home is what they act out in public. Are you living the example?
Yes, I am living the example. I stick my di ck in my wife. Not other men's @sses.
Do you stick it in her a s s? You did not specify, and if you do "go Greek" with her then you should reconsider how straight you really are.
Gene – the point is – no one cares where you stick anything and you shouldn't care what goes on in law abiding citizens bedrooms.
You said it ALL! it does all start at HOME. Teach your children WELL. we all learn how to Talk, eat , and walk by our PARENTS. It all starts there. So HATE does breed HATE. It up to Us, the people who do teach thier children well,, to pass along the good news.
If i was gay, I would just kill myself.
Sucks to be you.
No no JB, Im straight.
@Tim ...someones a little over defensive.
And if I had a closed mind that allowed me think I was superior just because I liked girls, I would be depressed too.
It's really too bad you're not gay then.
It still sucks to be you.
You may be straight, but your also a dick.
It's not "your also acdick."
It's "you're also a dick."
"your" is the possessive, similar to "his," "mine," "our," or "her."
"you're" is the contraction of "you are" similar to "I'm" for "I am ."
This is basic English that we all learn in grade school.
If you were gay and had to deal with all the bullying and harassment that most gay kids have to endure, I might understand why you would say that.
But since many gay kids have killed themselves due to the previously mentioned reasons, I find your statement beyond offensive.
Then I pray you are not gay. And I pray that you are never faced with the choice of whether to take your life, or to keep fighting to find God's plan for you. Suicide is not a joke, gay or straight. Life is a gift. I pray you never have the impulse to truly hurt yourself.
"It is said that a man would look to a thousand year old book to tell him right from wrong, when the real answers are written in his own heart."
Aren't we all suppose to be created in "God's" image...so wouldn't that make God partially gay?
I think all religions of all faiths should only be concerned with teaching people how to Love God and each other. We as indivduals are responsible for our own salvation. We should not put pressure on society to say who should be able to marry and love one another. Seriously, they only teach each other to HATE and shun those they feel are not worthy of recieving God. They hide behind God and thorow stones. I know that most people that do practice religion knows the quote> Tho Shall NOT Judge! ...Hemmmm seems that is all they do. According to the bible this is a Great Sin! where did they get this free pass to do so?
I am with you on this. It seems when people are/become religious, they feel 'holier' than anyone else and able to pass judgement on them. That pride is a human failing seems to pass them by. Instead of improving their own behavior and actions, they prefer to label others who are different.
Perfectly said. I am shocked by the hatred. God loves all. God wants us to love others as we love ourselves. Simple.
Once the government is able to identify the gay gene, abortions should be performed on the spot.
Your callousness is obscene. Just who the hell do you think you are? If you consider yourself to be morally superior, I have to tell you that you are showing no signs of it.
Abortions? Wow, you sound very christian. How about we just abort the kids without the intelligence and moral fiber to know right from wrong.
I know we would all miss the chance to see your wit and candor on CNN.com, but that is a price I and most people might be willing to pay.
The ends justifies the means right?
Edward, perfect response to an asinine comment.
Unfortunately the "stupid" gene has not been identified yet. I am sure your genome contains multiple copies though, if such a gene exists. I wonder if retroactive abortions for that gene will ever become a viable option?
Edward, very nicely done.
Right after they find the hater gene....I guess you would never have been born.
Seriously, if you have a problem with gay people, tell all the straight couples to stop having gay children.
There is no "gay gene". Rather, se.xual orientation is a multivariate based in genetics (groupings of genes – more importantly,, what those genes code for, how they are expressed) along with hormonal baths in utero, neuronal plasticity, neuroanatomy, etc.
And if you, and those of your ilk, wouldn't choose to be ignorant about science, you would have known this – thus sparing us from your inane post.
However, we do know that there are specific anatomical difference in brain anatomy in folks like you. Do you think that we should begin aborting all ignorant fundiots?
And how about the inbred-jeebus-sucking gene?
Once a person professes a faith in god they should be sterilized.
Its a choice! They are not born that way! If they compare themselves to blacks, hispanics or other nationalities they are wrong. People are born black, hispanic, etc. wth.....
And some people are born without fully functioning brains, yet they still find their way onto the internet to spout their uneducated opinions.
Get over yourself.
Then post the citations to the peer-reviewed scientific research that says gays choose to be gay.
So far, after tens of thousands of requests, not a single solitary one of you has ever posted a single solitary citation.
Why is that Vincent?
Do me a favor Vincent. If being gay is a choice, then go ahead and choose to be gay for a while. I am straight, and I can't do it.....
Try harder, you'll get it eventually!!
And you know this how? Why would anyone choose to be hated by so many people? Why would you chose to be gay with the way society (i.e. you) are toward people that are slightly different. Are you mad because no gay person would touch you with a 10 foot pole? Don't you think we really need to focus on the serial killers, child mole sters, child por n freaks, etc. I used to feel very sorry for people like you, now I just wish you to go away...far far away and hope you never breed to continue your ignorace and hatred.
The only people who believe being gay is a choice are closet gays.
Tell when you decided to be straight.
Does gay for pay really pay well?
Gay people receive thousands in government subsidies each year.
Prove it, Frankie Boy
Well they don't but religious wackjobs do.
Wow! Where's the form for that subsidy? I need to get in on that!!!
Christians: Using the Bible to justify your position to atheists is as useful as reading a phone book to them. I believe in the Bible too, but you can't use it to reproach a person who doesn't believe in it.
Atheists: Enough with this "your religion," "sheeple," and "zealots" nonsense. Billions of people follow religions worldwide, and it does your argument no good to belittle them because you don't think the way they do.
It is possible to have this argument without getting personal. We have plenty of legal activity in this country that contradicts the teachings of the Bible. We also have plenty of laws that are certainly based in Biblical principles, or at the very least, based on fundamental and unshakable standards of right and wrong. Personal anecdotes for each side accomplish absolutely nothing. Also, I've got 110 8th grade essays to grade this weekend. Does any member of the grammar police want to help me out?
"It is possible to have this argument without getting personal."
Honestly...no it's not. Beliefs are very personal, but they're also unprovable in the realm of religion. The fact that religious people try to use their beliefs to control the lives of others and belittle them for no reason is in no way equivalent to the defensive reaction from those of us who've had enough of this middle ground fantasy.
There is no middle ground with religious people – if you disagree I'd argue that the people you're thinking of aren't very religious.
The zealots (which isn't meant to be offensive, just an accurate description of those certain religious people) may give the rest of religion a bad name, but as an Atheist, even the "decent" religious people still hold to beliefs that don't, and never will, have any meaning to me or bearing on my life or decisions...except for the decision to stand up to religious ignorance, arrogance and self-righteousness.
It is personal.
QS, it's absolutely possible to have this debate without getting personal. People bring up the religious aspect of this argument when they run out of things to argue about, or because they are brought down on every other aspect. To go on about how all religious types "stuff religion down your throat" and try to discredit their personal beliefs makes you no better than the zealots you (and I) hate so much.
Being based on Biblical principles is not the same thing as being consistent with Biblical principals. Biblical laws were cultural practices in place well before that actual writing of the Bible. Furthermore, it is rather arrogant to call something like a prohibition on murder or theft a "Biblical" law, considering that particular law is a social prohibition has been in place in pretty much every human civilization that lasted more than a month, not just the ones that followed the Bible.
Gays are subhuman defects. When they have children or adopt children, they are instilling zero sense of normalcy into their upbringing.
Truer words have not been spoken.
Shut up Chauncey. The only thing subhuman here is your narrow mind.
More asinine words have never been spoken.
Guys... Don't feed the troll.
Ladies, thank you for scaring the brains out of those who would teach the next generation to hate and discriminate.
George- I assume you are joking.
I wish your mother swallowed the night you were conceived
If you are normal, than I am perfectly satisfied with being abnormal.
The word "normal" does not logically imply anything about objective positive or negative value. A person of average intelligence has, by definition, a "normal" intelligence. Genius, on the other hand, is very abnormal Does the fact that he is normal make him better than a genius?
With all of the horrible things going on in this world, you're going to choose this as a subject to rant and rave about??? Let these people live their lives how they want to. It's not hurting you.
They SHOULD give them the RIGHTS that everyone has. They are HUMANS, they love no differently than straight people. Gez you people act like being gay is a plague or a disease. You people think it's so "damaging" to children and families for gays to be able to marry. Okay so gays being able to adopt is not as damaging? Stop being ignorant, I am all for gays being able to marry because being married to one another is not about God it is about two people loving each other and wanting to be together.
They do not live in this world alone! Changing laws for the few is not my idea of sweeping change
I'm sorry but, just because the legislature finds it appropriate to change the law does not change my view that gay marriage is wrong. To quote "Kind Of The Hill"... it's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
Your quoting a cartoon that stereotypes conservative rednecks? Brilliant!
Jeff – I mean AMEN to your comment, not to SPLAT.
So...should someone quote the Simpsons to refute your "brilliant" response? What an idiot.
You want to have everyone worship your God? Move out of the country. It wasn't founded on the bible, it was founded on freedom of religion and representation of the people in government.
NOT the representation of a select portion of people. By being an American citizen, they have the right to freely express their love. You have no monopoly on Marriage.
WOW. Such a loving christian you are. Why are all the "good christians" so hateful. I know more church goers that I wouldn't let babysit a gold fish let alone raise a child yet, these 2 women have been together longer than most hetro marriages and you all think that is wrong. At least their children will grow up right, not to be a hater.
That's a great point to make!! You tell them!!
Because, you know, it turned out so well for the first "traditional" family and all...
wow....king of the hill....bravo!
News Flash! If Adam and Eve were real Incest would be acceptable.
*snort* Quoting 'King of the Hill'? Wow, you really have run out of things to say...
...and it cracks me up that to you:
Gay Marriage = Bad
Starting the human race through incest = A-OK!
An irrational law is still irrational no matter how many people favor it.
Laws discriminate against the few. There have been dozens of laws made for that purpose. Why not make our country and our world more, not less, inclusive and loving.
to all the Christians out there on this post (i dont see many): Stand firm because "those who stand firm to the end will be saved" Matt 24:13. we will always be called hypocrites...because we are we are all sinners saved by grace through faith. we unlike the world do not rely on our "good works" to be considered valuable or worthy. we are saved by grace through Jesus Christ not by anything we have done simply because we believe. thank you Jesus life is not fair and i will not receive my deserved punsihement. for all the non -believers: the louder you scream and more angry you get only proves that much more that Jesus is alive. i have never went on a blog about any other god and hear such anger and seething teeth. his name and message offends us. why? because it sheds light on our lives and tells us something is seriously wrong. i only post in hopes that someone would read this and maybe plant a seed of curiosity and they will seek for themselves the one God who is mighty to save.
in reply to hisloveenduresforever: Amen!
That is some funny stuff. Glad I don't live in your reality.
"We are saved simply because we believe"? Regardless of how we behave, how we treat others, how much love we give others, how much compassion and kindness we show?? If I lie, cheat, assault, and slander others all week, am I o.k if I go to church on Sunday and say "I believe"?? Your simple faith is just that, simple and blind.
not at all and im so glad you asked. i was pointing out that our salvation has nothing to do with us or what we do. by believing in Jesus Christ the fruit of our salvation is that those behaviors are no longer part of who we are. you may mess up and sin but you are no longer a slave to those behaviors. james 2:18 " But some will say ' you have faith, and i have works, but i will show you my faith BY my works" – we are a work in progress. - James 2:17 " Thus also faith by itself, if it does have works is dead"
apparently, slaves feel the need to be saved. back on your knees for the massah.....err, messiah
Oh great. I really wish that whoever keeps leaving the Christian Troll cage unlocked after feeding time would get with the program already! They got loose again and found their way to a computer.
Yeah, the Pharisees loved to pray out in public too, and tell themselves how good and holy they were... looks like the same sort of thing here.
I wish they would give them all the RIGHTS they think they deserve no matter how damaging it is to children and families because I am so sick of hearing about the plight of the gay and lesbian. It's getting SO old now!
m, I'm sure they are pretty tired of having to fight for the same rights that you and I take for granted as well.
You gotta fight.....
For the right.....
You gotta fight.....
For the right.....
Yeah well I'm tired of seeing straight people kiss and hold hands in public without fear of having the tar beaten out of them but I somehow seem to manage. The notion that gay people cannot be good parents is so moronic it's laughable. That's what they said regarding interacial marriages.....imagine, MILLIONS of children not knowing if they are black or white....must be so confusing and damaging to them! (sense the irony)
Interracial marriage is completely different leo... they have 2 different gender parents. Having parents of the same gender really effects them, they need both a masculine & feminine influence in their life. Ill give you an example, growing up a boy on my baseball team was adopted by 2 lesbians, now this may just be coincidence but he is now gay. I have a hard time believing that it was jsut coincidence though, i just think its what the child is exposed to media, parents etc. Acceptance is the reason its on such a huge spike right now, its the "cool" thing to do
you're an idiot.
Right Brett, because gay people only have gay kids and straight people only have straight kids?? My parents are straight but, oh wait! I'm a LESBIAN. Your facts don't seem to match up.
So Brett, according to your line of thought, that boy should have grown up to be a lesbian, not gay.
Nice Story. But it doesn't change the fact that their family is contrived and based on their selfish desires. The belief that you should be able to do whatever you want and that you can have everything you want is very destructive. There are lots of things that I want, but I live within my biological/god-given limitations. Others should as well.
Oh fer crissakes just shut up.
don't fall for it...Dave's just sore cause his wife loves a strap on.
All families are based on selfish desires. There is no "unselfish" reason to reproduce. Now before you get all offended, there is nothing wrong with being selfish sometimes.
offended? not even close.
I agree. Amputees shouldn't get prosthetic limbs, deaf people shouldn't be allowed to consider cochlear implants, infertile couples shouldn't be allowed to breed, and people in wheelchairs should just learn how to get up stairs.
so you agree that being gay is a disability?
I cannot wait till the real issues come knocking on your door cause if you cannot handle this...no way you'll survive a real problem.
Uh....what? Equality in the eyes of the law for the benefits of health care and taxes is "everything"? Next you're gonna tell me that being gay is a choice, aren't you...
it is clearly not a choice for most gays. However, i do agree with your line of thinking that these "rights" are all about money and benefits. when in doubt, follow the money. it's not about love at all. that is the dirty little secret of the whole "rights" movement.
@dave, actually it's about both. But hey since we're on the subject maybe we should treat all married people as individuals and take away EVERYONE's rights to inheritence, hospital visitation rights, taxes, etc.....wonder how straight people would like that...
Actually, it's about equality more than money. You know, being able to make medical decisions for your partner if they're hosptalized, being able to carry insurance for them, the right to not testify against your partner, basically all the same rights and privledges that are given to straight couples. Oh and yes, the economic benifits of inheriting the house and money that you've built up with them over a lifetime without the government taking most of it or their family taking it because you didn't have a will.
If you're worried about the money, then lets remove all governmental benefits from marriage and make it a purely religious function with no other rights included.
So infertile couples shouldn't ever have kids? It would go against their god given biological abilities after all... and since you're giving up things for the good of god and society, might I suggest you not have any children either. Afterall with the current overpopulation in many parts of the world and the many orphans out there, more babies is the last thing needed.
If they think marriage is all about reproduction, then I guess infertile couples shouldn't be allowed to get married, either.
Good thing then that we live in a country that doesn't allow religion to control others....as much as they still think they should be able to.
All of these types of issues need to be put to state referenda. Let the people decide, not corrupt politicians and activist judges.
And don't give me the "tyranny of the majority" crap. That's the battle cry of the weak minded.
Special interest groups and corporate lobbying have killed our so-called representative system. It's time for pure democracy.
There's a reason for the judicial branch of the government. It's to keep the free-thinking populace in check by using a (one-can-only-hope) more developed knowledge of the law to ensure the protection of everyone's freedom. "Activist" judges are the ones who enabled black people to vote, interracial couples to marry, and they have generally upheld civil rights in the face of a majority viewpoint which is now seen as ridiculous. The occasional job of the judiciary is to drag the populace, kicking and screaming if necessary, into the brave new world where they aren't allowed to be bigots.
We aren't a democracy. We're a republic. Look it up.
Did you miss my last sentence? I know good and well that we are a republic (representative system).......a failed one.
This isn't the 18 or 19th century anymore. The system was set up to protect from the uninformed and uneducated masses. Well, times have changed and people in the US are now informed and educated (the ones that aren't usually don't vote).
The public are educated and informed?
When did this happen?
It happened right before we elected Bush into his second term.
So, will we also leave the vote of segregation, slavery, etc up to the people? Will it be a state by state vote or will it all be at the Federal level? I mean it would really be a pain for a mixed race couple to cross a state line and then one gets sold and the other thrown in jail for being married to the wrong color...but hey, that should be up to the people right? Lets just scrap any concept of personal freedoms and vote on everything.. state religion, who can vote (I mean womens suffrage, what a waste), and every other freedom we currently take for granted.
Excellent answer iamdeadlyserious. Pete, I did read all your sentences, including your childish name calling. While our founding fathers intention may have been related to the unimformed and uneducated masses they were smart enough to not limit it to that. Even though more people are educated and we have information overload on everything these days I don't know if the masses are well informed. We choose where we get our news from and many people, on both sides, will only read and/or believe what they want to hear. I also think that when it comes to our rights the masses are more ignorant and bigoted and we all need the protection the Judiciary provides from their tyranny.
Tyranny of the majority, Pete, Tyranny of the majority! Don't like it? Too Bad!
Its a conservative idea to allow the states to address the gay rights debate, and usually I agree with conservatives. However, if the government had done that during the 60's civil rights movement, I'm guessing quite a few states would still be segregated. There needs to be a federal mandate. We need to stop preventing American ciitizens from trying to live their lives. Our country is founded on freedom and prosperity.
How any human being can read this – hear the words of this woman – and still feel that her family is somehow inferior to yours, I will never know. As a number of people here have pointed out, Gingrich is a staunch defender of some freaking crazy, rightwing 'marriage act', meanwhile he has made a mockery of marriage at least 3 times. That Beverly Hills Housewife person went to Vegas and got married as a goof, said it "was fun", and got it anulled the next day...and she has a "right" to get married and this couple DOESN'T? Read some of this crap right here: men speaking about God and children when I KNOW they've been unfaithful to their wives or divorced at least one, but they fear that gay-ness will what – rub off?
Newt's own sister happens to be gay, and he rally's against her ability to have equal rights. His own sister. He chose not to attend her and her partners wedding. OK fine. Probably not a bad thing. I wouldn't want him to be in the same room as myself either. What a piece of crap for a human. He want's his rights as a fat, arrogant white guy but stands in the way of others that want only what he is afforded. Respect, equality and the ability to choose the one that you want to spend your life with and the rights that are afforded her brother. Oh, Newtie has tried that now 3 times. So this isn't about morality. It's about them and us. Pitiful, ignorant, arrogant man!
I am a married man very much in love with my wife. I hope with all my heart and soul that every couple who love each other like my wife and I love each other have the right to marry and all the privliges that come with marriage. I have so much happiness and joy from being married to the woman I love, and what kind of selfish lout would I be to begrudge that same happiness and joy to someone else just because they happen to be gay?
Well said, Patrick. I wish you and your dear wife every happiness, just as I wish ALL those who love another.