By Kiran Khalid, CNN
The Muslim community in Des Moines, Iowa, is as small as it is diverse. The members of the four mosques here are from Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan and Bangladesh, among other nations. Although the roots of the Muslims here may be worlds apart, the community is a tight-knit group. That’s why what happened at their mosques here is alarming to so many of its members.
“That was really surprising, very sad that somebody would come or the FBI or Homeland Security would send somebody here to pretend to be Muslim and try to find out what goes on here. I feel there is no need for that,” said Dr. Hamed Baig, president of the Islamic Center of Des Moines.
Baig is talking about 42 year-old Arvinder Singh. Baid says he saw Singh a couple of times at his mosque, and that Singh would have been welcomed like all newcomers interested in learning about Islam. But it wasn’t until recently that members of the community discovered that Singh, who was raised a Sikh, was allegedly sent into their mosques to spy for the FBI.
Singh told CNN that the FBI told him, "'You look Middle Eastern, and we need your help for the war against terror.'"
Singh says he obliged because he had been charged with “selling or transferring precursor substances for an unlawful purpose” back in March of 2002. Singh says he unwittingly sold more than the legal limit of Sudafed, often used in meth labs to create the illegal drug crystal meth. The charge was deferred but the Indian-born immigrant says he worried about getting his citizenship, something he desperately wanted. Singh says the FBI came to him with a simple tradeoff: We’ll help you get your citizenship if you help us get some terrorists.
Singh spoke to CNN in an exclusive on-camera interview from Hardin County Jail in Iowa, where he’s been awaiting deportation. He says the promise to expunge his record of that felony was another promise left unfulfilled by the FBI: When he tried to apply for citizenship, he was arrested.
Singh says when he was first approached by agents, “I was surprised. I said, ‘Me? I have no idea about this’ And they said ‘We’ll train you. You’ll get used to it. We’ll make you go and do some work for us.’”
Singh says he assumed a Muslim identity– Rafik Alvi - and went into the mosques pretending to be interested in converting. He says he frequented mosques all over the state but attended the four in Des Moines regularly for seven years. He says sometimes the FBI gave him pictures of persons of interest and he would confirm that they were at the mosque. On a few occasions, Singh says he taped his conversations with congregants.
“They wanted me to go investigate some people in the area,” Singh told CNN in a jailhouse interview. “See what they’re doing, who they’re meeting. Who’s their family member, who’s attending them, what they are talking about. That kind of work.”
Anis Rehman, executive board treasurer of the Islamic Center of Des Moines and a college professor says he feels violated. “To know that somebody made an intrusive entry into the masjid for purpose other than prayer, or other than socializing or taking care of anybody who is in need makes me very much nervous and embarrassed, too, that I belong to a community where we have a member who has come for some other purpose. But later when we saw that he was not actually a member but a pretender then it made me more angry,” Rehman said.
Basim Bakri says he knew Arvinder Singh who used an American name, “Roger.” He says if Singh’s claims are true, the FBI just took a step backwards in building trust with the Muslims in his community.
“I think the FBI owe[s] us an apology because they did violate our civil rights,” Bakri said.
Rehman says the idea of a FBI informant in their tiny mosque is not only offensive but baffling. “I find that to send an impostor into our community which is so small where not only we know each other but (where) the law enforcement agents can perhaps pick each one of us by name and by family, I don’t think that the incident [on] 9/11 could warrant such action in a small community like ours.”
Weysan Dun, the FBI’s special agent in charge of the Omaha Division says the agency doesn’t confirm or deny the identity of its informants nor do they cut deals like the one Singh described. But he adds that if such surveillance were to occur, it would be unrealistic to involve mosque leaders.
“We approach our investigations with the intent of finding the truth and we are just as eager to prove someone innocent as we are to prove guilt. If we involve mosque leaders prior to conducting surveillance on a member of their community, we could be tarnishing the reputation of the subject of the investigation if it turns out the person was innocent. Thus, to protect those against whom unfounded or malicious accusations have been made, we cannot involve others prior conducting investigative activities,” Dun said in an email to CNN.
But that comes as little consolation to the American Muslims such as Bakri who says he’s demoralized that the partnership his community believed it had built with law enforcement was a one-way street.
“It wasn’t right at all, it wasn’t right from the beginning and they have no right to do that,” Bakri said, shaking his head in dismay.
ONE PERSON'S TERRORIST IS ANOTHER'S FREEDOM FIGHTER. THE FBI PRACTICED ILLEGAL BAITING AND ENTRAPMENT OF A VUNERABLE NON-CITIZEN.
Alien Shark There was proof
its funny how he is sad for being betrayed
THIS IS ISLAM, THE SO CALLED "RELIGION OF PEACE":
Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.” Koran 2:191
“Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.” Koran 9:123
“When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them.” Koran 9:5
“Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.” Koran 3:85
“The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them.”... Koran 9:30
“Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam” Koran 5:33
“Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.” Koran 22:19
“The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.” Koran 8:65
“Muslims must not take the infidels as friends.” Koran 3:28
“Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an.” Koran 8:12
“Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.” Koran 8:60
Everyone who reads these fake lines please go o QuranExplorer.com and click launch quran explorer on your right hand side. If You really Want truth then go and fight the true terror your under called fear.
Joes, outstanding posting of facts. FBI was stupid on only one part, picking the fool. Recruit from within their force.
FBI don't gotta apologize to no one.
The only good muslim... is a Kurdish muslim.
Did you mean, Saladin (Salahuddin) who thwarted crusades Mr Kumar?
Who. Cares...really Muslims Christians make allow kinds of atrocities so does the FBI, CIA, local cops politicians ignorant Muslims. It's the world.No one is innocent.
people, do you read what you type? its disgusting and degrading to even think like you do, people no matter the religion are the same as you or me. Im an athiest and i dont bash religion like you people of good wholesome chritian religion are doing right now. You make me sick and sad to live in this country.
You do not have to live here, pickup and leave quickly. Try Afganistan, they are very understanding.
people need to mind their own business. Theres good muslims and bad, same goes for christians, catholics, or any other religions. wasn't ted kazynski a christian?
I've talked to my Muslim friends who attend the only mosque in my city, and since 2001, every single adult worshiper has been approached to be an informant by the FBI, and all have refused (or said they did at least). We have a national labs here, a USAF base, and there is no terrorism here, nor any stirrings of it.
we know l what american and Israil are, indeed so let the normal people talk
It has been shown that 80% of all mosques in the US teach hatred against non muslims and the west. They hand out jihadi literature and are detrimental to the safety of the US. The true fact is tyhat they are just teaching the koran.
That's just a complete lie. That statistic doesn't exist. I'd say it's less than 1%, particularly mosques that are IN the west. I'd say there are more evangelical churches that teach hatred for America than mosques.
Good work FBI! Watch those muslims, there are always up to no good, and the more insulted they get, the better, maybe they go back to their countries
Wait! When they will get you. You are a typical Fox news lover who has no idea about the rest of the world
I know you are being sarcastic but the irony is that is exactly the thinking. The new immigration laws in Alabama are designed to persecute, harass, and threaten outsiders so much they "self-deport." Watch for this phrase in the GOP lineup, they all seem to think that making people consider the US worse than the countries they fled for economic and political reasons to begin with is somehow a) moral, and b) will work. If the US gets bad enough Mexicans would rather live with the cartel massacres, I don't know that the rest of us would want to be here, either.
Ban Islam, are you serious? A religion with over 1.5 billion followers or over 22% of earth's population it is the second-largest and one of the fastest-growing religions in the world. So stop being ignorant. No wonder more than half the people in this world dislike America & this country that we live in. It's because of people like you, people who are an embarrassment to this country. Yet let me guess you claim to be a holy Christian/Catholic? Get over yourself. No religion out there is perfect, just like no race, color, gender, age, or person is. It's just easier to point fingers and put hate on others than to sit there and look in the mirror & look at your own religion & see the kind of people who are a part of it. You make me embarrassed & ashamed to be living on the same earth & breathing the same air as you.
Fastest growing enforced religion. If the mullahs take there foot of the necks of the people there would be alot less muslims in the world. Any religion that says you must die if you recant islam isnt much of a religion at all.
I did not realize you were aloud to be openly racist in the USA. Wouldn't CNN be obligated to keep xenaphobic and racialy insightfull language of the screen.
Only against certain people. Apparently Muslims and blacks are not protected. CNN probably thinks that flame wars are good for getting sidebar ads out to more people.
Read Read Read and you will gain the knowledge and best of all the TRUTH....
Watch all parts...
If FBI wants to go to my church and "spy" I don't care I have nothing to hide
Isn't that what the Nazis told people who objected to random searches? "If you have nothing to hide, you won't object". This is NOT the American Way. Let's not strip America of the very ideals we strive to protect.
SINGH got exactly what he deserve, he betrayed Muslims, FBI betrayed him. Go back to India and do something better..
@ahmed before you can call yourself an all american muslim you must first realize thats exactly how the average american is treated.second you need a good old police beat down like the one i got for being in the wrong neighborhood.if i get treated that bad as a white american citizen then you should definitely be treated worse than me considering it was your people that committed that act of terror on 9/11.
There is no solid proof who who was behind 911 check this link...
Dov Zakheim 911 and missing Trillions from pentagon
and now watch....
Khhhhaaaaaaaann!!!! You're a moron.
@Noyb, wait, u r glad that FBI had spies in ur mosque ?? U want a non-muslim to decive u and be next to u in the prayer in the mosque ??
LMFAO@if something were to ever happen, they would KNOW that it wasn't us
Are u kidding ??? Whether u did or did not do, Fox news and its ilk will blame u buddy, its always you
FBI have no right to do this, and I am glade this man EXPOSED them
I am a member of this mosque, and was disgusted to see cnn filming in it that day, but unfortunately right now we have such weak community leaders that they allowed this to happen without having a clear statement or response prepared for them. let me be clear, i am glad that fbi or whomever had spies, that way if something were to ever happen, they would KNOW that it wasn't us, but for this pathetic excuse for a human being to say he was betrayed is the definition of irony. you just pretended to be muslim for the sole purpose of betraying people, THEN you sell drugs and revoke your green card, and now you want us to see you as the victim. i don't think so, gitmo is too good for you, but our community forgives you, i don't wish you punishment or harm, but will not help in your pathetic effort to rally support for your selfish acts either.
FBI are losers, they tried the same crap with me 4 yrs ago, they came to my house asking me to help them by monitoring ( spying ) on ppl in my local mosque, and when i got aggressive with them and declined their offer, they tried to twist my arm with some stuipd legal matters that i had in the past, when i showed them that i dont care, and made fun of them and almost kick them out of my house, they ran away and i never heard from them since, -- TO All muslims, dont get intemidated by these girly men of the FBI, be strong and tough with them and they will run
You're an idiot and most likely a complete liar.
get out of my country you filthy murdering Muslim. Go back to your pitiful homeland and beat your women and blow up your bombs there.
@jim there would be no islam haters if muslims werent driving airplanes into buildings,blowing themselves up just to kill non muslims,beheading their women just for wanting freedom and training children to be suicide bombers.
You need to check some history. The Crusades were a long time before 9/11 and there was no provocation I've ever heard of. It seems like you and others like you are setting out to treat these people like the Jews were treated for centuries. This is "American" land of religious freedom, why don't you start acting like an American instead of a Nazi.
No...there would still be Islam haters.
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Feds are dump as ususal, and wasting tax payers money on B.S
they have no clue about muslims cause they get trained WRONG by ppl who no clue, but more likely islam haters
Keep wasting tax payers money FBI
@peace on you- muslims dont commit crime?honor killings are ok?did you forget muslims intentionally drove airplanes into buildings?
@peace on you- you may call them faux news but in their defense i can say that they dont have to do 4 articles to get the story right as cnn did with the death of paterno.fox news got it right the first time.cnn has spent so much effort demonizing the tea party and fox news that 6 months to late you are finally figuring out the real criminal element is in the occupy movement.all you have on the tea party is that they alledgedly had a monkey sign.but for 6 solid months fox news has been reporting on the criminal activity committed by the occupy movement that cnn can no longer hide with bogus tea party articles:trespassing,loitering,unlawful entry,noise pollution,disturbing the peace,traffic obstruction,disruption of commerce,theft,possesion and use of drugs,child endangerment,vandalism,arson and inciting riots just to name a few violations of the law.
I like muslims more then black people, at muslims work and have job nlggers only take welfare
until i hear muslims saying just as loud that al quaeda has betrayed you and see an honest effort to stop terrorism i will consider all muslims as terrorists.if the terrorists were truly the minority of muslims we would succeed in ridding the world of terrorism.just maybe thats because the rest of the muslims would rather play the role that they are innocent than to do anything about it.
What are you doing on CNN? Shouldnt you be back on Faux News. What you dont realize is just like FLDS are not Christians, they are pedophiles who want to justify their agenda under the banner of religion, AlQaeda is the same thing. They are not Muslims, PERIOD. I can say I am a buddhist and therefore I am therefore required to get as much buddi as I can, but that does not all Bhuddists, sodomizers. There is not justification in Islam for murder of any kind. And as to why you never hear Muslims speak out against terrorism: It doesn't sell news.
I am very sorry what american FBI did that muslim people but it is not the fast time that american do like this, I am not surprising because american we know what he did Iraq, Afganistian, Libeya and many other muslim countries. American stands to decrease that muslim development and also papulations but allah will not agree with hem to happen that dreams
Majority of Muslims are terrorist right? Says the guy who is home-safe in his free safe land of the United States of America, where we believe in justice and fairness and equality and tolerance right? The good majority of Muslims come from parts of the world where we have seen all types of crazy things that the average American only see's on tv, on the news, or in movies. Most Muslims come from places where we see, live, crazy things. American's don't. The United States, God Bless the United States of America, Allah Bless America for occupying the Middle East, South Asia, and butting it's nose into the business of Muslims countries (and those corrupt Muslim governments who allows the US to come in, and were funded and backed by the US in the first place, but are hated by the Muslim people of the country). And those brave Muslims brothers and sisters who fight against the corrupt Muslim leaders who are oppressors, and the US which is also an oppressor, those brave Muslim brothers and sisters of mine are quick to be called "insurgents", "belligerents", "extremists", "radicals", "fundamentalists".
You live in America, you only see what you see based on TV. You don't see the rest of the world first hand. All this world politics which is going on, is really still the Crusades. Islam vs the Western elite. Islam is under attack because it has the power to challenge all other beliefs, and it has the power to attract the masses into belief, that is why them Elites want to fight it.
God will make the truth manifest, and falsehood perish. And all is in accordance with His Plan.
:It's rare to get a specialist in whom you might have some faith. In the world at eerspnt, nobody truly cares about showing others the answer in this issue. How fortunate I am to have definitely found a wonderful site as this. It's people like you exactly who make a true difference in this world through the suggestions they reveal.
kind of strange you didnt hear the muslims saying that al quada betrayed them after 9/11.so they may have got roughed up and harassed by police,thats just the average life of a typical american.send the muslim to gitmo where he belongs.
We did... no one listened.
I do not understand what kind of a person r u ? American ? Christian ?
McKveigh blew up the federal building ,do you indicate that all white christians should go to a Gitmo ?
This is neither American Nor Christian , do not be arrogant and go back to your senses,remember you r a human , not God . life is very limited ,remember where did you come from and where r you going at the end of your life .
i am a proud American Muslim i have no problems with the fbi spying on me. i have nothing to hide....and as for this informant who decided to turn against the fbi.......you're doomed buddy. not only you screwed yourself but the muslims in india gonna have a nice welcome home party waiting for ya. keep pushing the envelop with the feds they have all the tools to show you that they can teach you a valuable lesson !!
I agree with you , that there is nothing for us as muslims to hide , but what is not acceptable is that the FBI came to the Muslim communities throughout the US and told them they are asking for their cooperation, they all cooperated, as the community have nothing to hide, they went behind their backs to spy on them. would you blame them if they do not trust the FBI anymore ?
Islamic ideology is backward and barbaric and should be suppressed every time it rears it ugly head. It has no place in western civilized society. They are closeted intolerant and bigoted and should be looked down upon.
Dear Noxomus :
The muslim society in the USA has one of the lowest rate of alcoholism , crime , drug abuse , violence, divorce and domestic abuse , and one of the highest rates of education, family integration , and they are law obedient citizens . it is clear that you do not know anything about Islam , and if you do your information is very limited .and unless you have a special agenda I urge you to go back with an open mind and look for the muslims in your community and learn more .
The FBI spies on all U.S. citizens of all nationalities and religions everywhere at all times. the patriot act allows that. so just because you are muslim doesn't mean you have special privilege, so shut it.
not surprising in the slighest. the FBI did the same thing in heavily irish-catholic churches in boston back during the troubles. you know why? because–guess what–that's where terrorist supporters were most likely to be found. and they WERE found.
most terrorists are now muslim. mosques, especially those espousing a violent (or more violent, i guess) brand of islam, are going to be watched. get over it. you can still pray and do whatever else you usually do–but if you happen to support terrorism, the feds are gonna know. that's it.
The US Muslims are a peaceful community , they are law abiding citizens , they have no fear of anything to hide , but I do not thing anyone wants this privacy intrusion , please go and visit , Please do not guess , go to the nearest mosque in your area and see for yourself ,
please their eyes watch us too....
wendys or burger king?
It's not new, the FBI has been spying on mosques even before 911, I think if u have nothing to hide then you shouldn't be afraid.
If we cave into fear we give the terrorist what they want. The best way to combat terrorism is just to shrug it off. Once they see that we cannot be intimidated, they will invent a new villain.
They didn't have to 'invent' us, nor us them.
After bin laden fought the evil soviets they turned to the evil americans. Inventing an enemy is a classic way for leaders to rise to power.
i just ate a burger
So what's wrong with this? If the FBI made some white guy infiltrate a white supremacy group I'd be fine with it. Quit being a bunch of PC idiots.
No, it would have to be a light skinned black guy pretending to be white to make the analogy work 🙂
nope, still not right. More like a white liberal spying on the KKK. Being a Sikh doesn't preclude the possibility of conversion to muhammedism where as the light skinned would not be allowed to entry into KKK at all.
TRUST ME...NOT ONLY IN MOSQUE "THE SPEAKER" TOLD HIS FOLLOWERS TO DO SOMETHING ANARKIS, RACIST, FIGHT OTHER THAN MUSLIM, FIGHT ALL WEST WORLD LIKE USA, AUS, ENG, GER, ETC...THEY ALSO INFLUENCING PEOPLE TO JOIN TO FIGHT TO MAKE THEIR SUPERIOR RELIGION AS THE ONLY RELIGION IN THIS PLANET (THEY CALLED: ALLAH)...EXAMPLE: IN SOUTH PHILADELPHIA, ONE OF SMALL RESTAURANT'S NAME: WARUNG SURABAYA (BETWEEN 7TH AND MIFFLIN STREET):::> THEY SHOW VIDEO TO ALL IMMIGRANTS (EXCEPT: AMERICAN) WHO EAT INSIDE ABOUT HOW CRUEL AMERICAN'S HELICOPTER ATTACK IRAQ...AND TOLD US THIS LADY LOSS HER LEGS...BLA BLA BLA...AND SAY SOMETHING NEGATIVE ABOUT AMERICAN AND WEST WORLD.....(THE POINT IS AMERICA ALREADY HAVE AN ENEMY(MOSLEM) BEHIND THE LINES WHO PROPAGANDA TO FIGHT USA, DESTROYED THE LIFE OF PEOPLE WHO L0OKING FOR ASSYLUM IN USA, MAKING SEMINAR BETWEEN COMMUNITY TO FACE TO FACE ARGUE ABOUT CHRISTIAN AND MOSLEM, IN INDONESIA: TERROR, BURN CHURCH, NO RESPECT, AND SO MANY STUPID THING ABOUT RELIGION) ANYWAY, KEEP WATCHING MOSLEM...TRUST ME THEY ARE ORGANISE, NO RESPECT, STAB YOU FROM BEHIND: "KILL YOU BY ANY WAY, ANY TIME, ANY WHERE", TALKING BAD BEHIND YOU, ALWAYS ACT LIKE A THEFT, INFLUENCE OTHER TO JOIN AGAINST US, LOVE THE PROBLEM BETWEEN US AND POINT THEIR SELF AS A WATCHING PEOPLE IN THE COURT...YOU KNOW HOW TO RE ACT, RIGHT ? DON'T SAY SOMETHING IF YOU HAVE PROBLEM, DISOBEY THEM, DON'T PANIC, AND OF COURSE RUN AWAY IF THEY ALREADY INSIDE YOUR LIFE ESPECIALLY IN YOUR RELATIONSHIP OR FAMILY
What ever happened to Ali Muhammed?
Nothing new about government law enforcement lying. It all started with the "Lady in Red" who the FBI promised to take care of her problems with immigration.
The way I see it. If they have nothing to hide. Where's the problem?
well I mean, you wouldn't want anyone spying on you and your personal conversations, neither would I or anyone else. But I don't buy this story. If it is true than it is true, either way, CNN kinda jumped the gun putting the story out with no evidence. Not the best journalism.
Nothing to hide?
so would you go naked?
What's the point in tax dollars being spent, if the F.B.I will just sit in a room a play cards all day. That's what their there for, to protect the American citizens. To me it's only normal they do this. Same as taking a plane. They look through your bags etc....
Taqiyya, google it.
I heard that hate filled pastors give their 'flock' a few pieces of bogus information on Islam and send them to hate-based websites to learn more half fudged one sided information and send the 'sheep' out into the world to spread their beautiful message.
Taqiyya us a cop-out and an extremely weak argument at best. The following article explains why...this is a sight where the truth spoken regarding the obvious lies propagated by Islamophobics.
Congrats USA! You are now like the Middle eastern countries. The mosques are full of informants to shut the people up. The land of the free alright!
at first glance, I thought the same thing, but you know what...this story is not credible. It is based off the testimony of a man who says he has been lying for seven years, and there is no supporting evidence. Maybe he was dealing with the FBI agents in his head?
Actually his story does make sense otherwise why wasn't he deported a long time ago since his offenses occured in 2002. Selling those drugs would have been sufficient to deport him yet the charges were deferred for years. If he's not telling the truth then why wasn't he charged?
I like your comment bro, but see this is not new , mosques have been under watch since the 1950 or perhaps even earlier due to the ongoing problems between Arabs and the Israelis .
I am all forstopping terrorists, but if we are to call America the land of the free, we shouldn't condone secret spying on Americans and 7 year long fishing expeditions. Freedom and equality.
something about this story doesn't seem right though. Is there any evidence other than this dudes word? I don't like trampling of civil liberties or anything, but I don't like discrediting an entire agency over one guys word, who says he has been lying consistently for seven long years. remember, these are the people that would put their lives on the line for you or your children if they had to.
It is the Anglo Whites who are the haters to begin with; belonging to Evangelical and Baptist groups in particular. They just brought their European carp to the Americas and in the process killed of the natives. As for Muslims, their religion has an agenda of world dominance and conspiring to harm the infidels is a religious virtue. So long as this is preached in mosques and madrases, the infidels have no choice but to preempt violence. While many Muslims express outrage and discrimination, its a lot of BS for the public. Once among themselves and their leaders, they are out doing Allah's dirty work. They don't stop to wonder why Allah cannot take care of the infidels himself. Like all religious people, Muslims are just as stupid as Christians (all republicans included), Hindus and Buddhists and the rest. Religion is a human disease that is cured only by death. And I say " Thank God, for Death." In the end "human stupidity will prevail" and that is the Great Design of the Gods ! Its all in your stupid heads, people !!
It's all true. Religion will be the end of life. Stupid little deadly stories.
dear Gettheruth :
If you really believe what you have said about the muslims and infidels you are misled and ignorant about the faith of Islam ,if you do not have a special agenda , please seek the truth by going to the nearest mosque and see what the true message is .
I have attended different mosques over the last 20+ years and I have never heard any sermons preaching hate either. Sure, every religion speaks about it being the only truth and the others all fall short and should be done away with. However, most of the terrorist acts against America has been initiated by Americans. 911 has yet to be thoroughly proven. Science and the physics of science completely absolves Muslims of the crime.
I'm sure this guy is making stuff up. I work with immigrants and people will say some crazy stuff to stay in the country.
Born and bred Americans will say weird things to get out of trouble too. Kids who get caught picking their noses do the same as well.
Great, we have a cynic working with our immigrants....
GOD bless Canada
This also happening in Canada at a much larger scale.
Are you kidding? There's no such thing as Canada now... it's all foreign cultures segregated into their communities. The city I live is 85 percent Chinese, for example.
It was an ill-conceived idea to put someone who might have an ulterior motive to do this task: "We’ll help you get your citizenship if you help us get some terrorists." Sincere Muslims don't want any criminal element in their mosques either. I can tell you that if I heard of some kind of plot, I'd report it. I would welcome an UNBIASED FBI investigation just so that they can see for themselves that we are interested in happy, peaceful lives. No community, no neighborhood, no nation prospers when they are in fear for their lives. I can tell you that if an undercover agent met me, my family, my fellow congregants, they'd have nothing bad to report... they might even be bored from the routine lives we lead. If these allegations are true, then I'm disappointed in the FBI (or in that particular branch) ... they need to work more closely with us and see that we don't want the bad guys around either. I'm all for getting the wrongdoers out of our communities but let us do it in a better way.
Weird thing about this story is the FBI got a sikh/punjabi guy to do this even through he doesn't look like he is from the middle-east or muslim country. Just because the average american can't tell the difference between brown people – the people in the mosques (or potential people that the fbi wants to reach) will know the difference between people that decent from various countries. I hope this story is false because i can't believe the FBI was be this stupid...we're need smarter tactics to defeat terrorism.
India has the largest muslim population and sikh look like pakistanis so i dont see anything funny about this
I'd have to read the story again but I think he was sent as a convert or someone who was interested in converting. Even though he may not look like a stereotypical Muslim, his fellow worshipers would have still accepted him since Muslims come in all shapes, sizes and colors. Generally, the first assumption when a new one comes to the mosque is that he/she is a visitor. The second assumption would be... he/she is here to pray alongside the rest of them. The idea that there would be an informant or a criminal informant would likely be the furthest from their minds, which is, I guess, if the story was true, why this plan was hatched.
Nadia... I could be wrong, but I believe that Indonesia has the largest Muslim population. But I see your point... without the traditional Sikh garments and symbols, I don't know that I could tell the difference, which is, I think what Nick was trying to say... Mr. Arvinder Singh probably looks like he would fit in seamlessly.
I agree with you we should have better and more intelligent ways , ? a drug dealer has a motive to get a citizenship to be the informant , and for seven years ??
correction there are muslims in India and in the Punjab , so his shape fits , especially he claimed he wants to become a muslim
Why was it malconceived? Most terrorists who wish death to America are Muslims. I am of Italian origin. If italians were conducting acts of terrorism, I would totally support infiltrating Christian Churches were Italians pray, Italian restaurants, pizzerias etc. Why is it wrong to spy on the people who want to destroy us and have sworn to do so? It would be very naive not to do that. Then again a lot of people who comment here have not travelled outside the US. A lot are left wing whack jobs. Others are just "born and raised in California" and can't see past their nose!
You misunderstood... investigation is fine. I personally have nothing to hide. The ill-conceived part was to use a person who is desperate to stay because he allegedly has a criminal problem and would have been deported if he did not cooperate (turns out he's gonna get sent away anyway). So his motives may be suspect. It would be different if the FBI had used someone without bias.
The issue of the FBI spying on mosques or any other place (church, synagogue, temple etc) because these practices are needed to protect america. I bet most of you would be fine with the fbi doing the same with organized crime (the mob). How are the FBI supposed to catch people planning attacks?
What I have an issue with is whether this singh guy is telling the truth or not. If he is telling the truth then america/FBI should come through on their part of the deal. He helped them out and they should drop changes and let him stay (they need to investigate this to find out the truth).
Don't forget people, we can't wait for another attack to happen – the FBI, Homeland sec, and others need to be on the offensive to ensure our safety.
If you look at statistics , the muslim community in the USA has one of the highest rates of education ,and family values and on of the lowest rates of crime , violence , drug abuse , alcoholism , divorce or domestic violence , they are law peaceful and abiding citizens , but if the FBI wants to have an informant they should not use an informant with an Ulterior motive : a drug dealer with a need to get his citizenship and avoid deportation ?? what kind of dependable informant !
because you can't investigate people for maybe. it's called probable cause.
In my country, police would watch Christian churches. If they even spoke to someone that was muslim, the police would swoop in and start arresting people.
Right now,it is not xians who are making problems with the world...it is Muslim s. They taste blood,hate being hosted in the countries of those they vow to kill. Musli Ms, any Muslims who read the Sudan are dangerous people. It is just fact. And now they kill tribally,along their own religious lines. Awful crap. Take a look at thereligionofpeace. Dot com sometime.We at banthemosque believe in the removal of any subversive muslim mosque, which is about ninety nine percent of them. And yes,we would love to ban any religious group who has a political agenda including Xi'an churches who try to preach politics and votig from the pulpit. No religion passes the tests of subversion and hate like the Muslim s though.
Please leave us alone. Let us abuse and enslave our women, marry children and plan your death. It is our religion.
That almost sounds as brash as some of these muslim activists are becoming. They love the freedom we have here to spout their hatred, and threats, and the freedom to hide under religious persecution laws. Fact is, any follower of the Syrian is dangerous and subversive. And, yes, I am serious. Check out the truth at banthemosque dot com
Follower of the Quran is what I meant
What a stupid comment. I'm not muslim but how can you put all people under one banner? So all muslims are bad people and can't be trusted? You don't think there are good honest american muslims that are part of communities.
There are bad apples in all religions and countries! Half of america thinks terrorism started in 2001 (meaning they basically started paying attention to terrorism in 2001) but the world has been dealing with terrorists for a long time. What about the IRA from ireland? Should we discriminate against all irish? There are white supremacists in various parts of america....should all white people be discriminated against?
Your views are very dangerous – we need to get back to being one country!
Nick, it is not the people, it is the religion. If u are a devout Quran reading and devout muslim, then you are required to be in jihad against infadels, which includes non Muslims. So, it is the teachings of the Syrian that cause the muslim devotees to be bad people. Yes, there are a ton that wish no harm to anyone, but that goes against therir own faith. But, most t if called apron would harm non believers. It is the nature of islam...dangerous.
Just went on the website you noted in your post. I that is the source of your hate I suggest you do more research. Getting all your information from these sorts of sites is dangerous because they have their own agenda. I read through some of the quotes and explanations and checked them against other sources and the quotes on that site have been changed to make it seem like the sole reason of the quran is to destroy the rest of the world.
Please do your own research from a variety of sources and form your own opinion (not just on this issue but everything like politics too).
This site is basically doing the same thing extemists in other countries are doing (twisting words and not telling the whole story) to get people to be on their side.
Should I get my Bible out & reference the Biblical backing for the abuse & enslavement of women (and men), as well as the Biblical decrees to murder non-believers & others (including children)? Should I point out the Christians who marry children (sometimes more than one), or the Christians who abuse children (in all the horrible ways possible)? Should I go gather a list of Christians who have killed in the name of their religion? (There's a number of domestic terrorists on that list...)
There are extremists in both religions. Heck, most religions have extremists (though it's usually only the Christians & Muslims who are violent; you never hear of Buddhist terrorists, after all). The thing is– with comments like yours, you just reinforce the hatred. I mean, I'm neither Christian or Muslim but I live more in fear of what people like you are capable of doing in the name of God than anyone else in America.
Thank god! A normal logical thinking person! Some of the comments here are pretty crazy so its good to know there are logical thinkers out there.
We never learn from history....people have killed in the name of religion for thousands of years and yet everyone still wants to carry on. What is worrying about some views in america is that we are free here and have all the information at our fingertips (unlike some places in the middleeast and north korea) and yet there are many people here with backwards views. I swear some people still think the cold war is going on.
none of that is part of islam at all, so you shouldn't even talk, cause you're not muslim. you're way out of bounds.
Mistake #1 was trusting law enforcement. They aren't on your side.
Being Muslim in Iowa.
wow – so much for the rights of Muslims and US citizens. What about the poor Arvinder Singh who did nothing but unwittingly sold more than maximum amount of sudafed? He was left hanging for more than 7 years and then deported. no one is commenting one iota about that. Muslims and Christians are a spoiled breed.. Learn to understand the point of view of other religions and stop pretending that no one exists besides Christians or muslims...
Mr Singh got what he deserved.. Betrayal begets betrayal no matter what religion or race you belong to..
This happens everywhere- not just in mosques. That is the purpose of secret intelligence. The same thing happens in Islamic countries. (I've spent the last 3 years living in the Middle East, and Islamic governments did the same to Christian churches. They sent in 'under-cover' Christians to search out the Christian churches and make sure Christians were not sharing their faith with their neighbors. I learned to accept it and live with it.) Its what all governments do.
No way you spent 3 years in the middle east. Your just lying
The Non-Muslim. The Muslim Community is angry because You do not need FBI to go to a mosque.
If you have a question about Islam or Muslims, Go to the nearest Mosque, Ask to Speak to the Imam. Take off your shoes if you are in the prayer area. and ask him any question ( politely and humbly because you want to Know the truth). If he refuses to reply, just tell him God has ordered you to answer my question and you have violated that order and see what he will say and leave. Go to a different mosque and repeat the cycle till you get an answer (I assure you (95 % probability wise) will get the answer from the first or the second cycle)
I would advise America's muslims to keep in mind that the allegations of Mr. Singh are coming from a man who is facing deportation on what amounts to a meth charge. Mr. Singh may be telling the truth, but it is also likely he's lying to avoid drug charges and to stay in the country.
As to this: “To know that somebody made an intrusive entry into the masjid for purpose other than prayer, or other than socializing or taking care of anybody who is in need makes me very much nervous and embarrassed, too, that I belong to a community where we have a member who has come for some other purpose. But later when we saw that he was not actually a member but a pretender then it made me more angry,” Rehman said:
Mr Rehman, there are people who use your faith's mosques and schools to plot terror attacks against your fellow citizens and neighbors. If Mr. Singh was a pretender, he was sent in there to find people who might be defiling your holy places with plots of violence.
Innocent until proven guilty. Even our own justice system screws up but you fix it by adopting such perspectives.
During the 1960s and 70s the FBI, CIA, Secret Service, and local police forces all over the country had agents and informers among the membership of the Nation of Islam under the leadership of Elijah Muhammad.
Most Americans don't care as long as they do it to people and organizations they don't care about.
The FBI also had agents among the Ku Klux Klan, but many of them were just as racist as the true Klan members.
They do this at my mosque, too, in the DC area. How is it fair that we are targeted for this? Should we put concealed FBI agents in Norwegian community centers because of Anders Breivik? How about in every church because of Tim McVeigh? It's ridiculous; this needs to stop. It is unfair and unlawful to target a group of people solely on the basis of their religious practices. It's saddening and it makes it seem like the government sees me and the remainder of the Islamic community as less than Americans, when we are just as American as anyone else.
You are less than American if you are a devout muslim. The Quran is dangerous and hate filled. We will continue to watch until Muslims stop building mosques.
You are very stupid. Your views give everyone else a bad rep. That website you keep quoting is full of inaccuracies where quotes are changed to make a point.
I see more hatred from you than any normal muslim (note i didn't say terrorist or extremist because most religions have extremists).
You talk about being american but you are not....what happened to the first amendment? Comments and views like yours are not what made america great....views like yours are holding this country back.
I hope someday you do more independent research instead of taking that banthemosque site as fact.
Racism and discrimination is the center core of nation. Happen to Africa-American as slaves back in 1800’s and continued until 1970’s. Also happen to Italian and Irish people early 1900’s and happening to Mexican up to these days. We love buying cheap Chinese products and dislike the ideas that jobs are going to Chinese people. Now it’s turn for the Muslim
Your logic sounds right. But it is the Anglo Whites who are the haters to begin with; belonging to Evangelical and Baptist groups in particular. They just brought their European carp to the Americas and in the process killed of the natives. As for Muslims, their religion has an agenda of world dominance and conspiring to harm the infidels is a religious virtue. So long as this is preached in mosques and madrases, the infidels have no choice but to preempt violence. While many Muslims express outrage and discrimination, its a lot of BS for the public. Once among themselves and their leaders, they are out doing Allah's dirty work. They don't stop to wonder why Allah cannot take care of the infidels himself. Like all religious people, Muslims are just as stupid as Christians (all republicans included), Hindus and Buddhists and the rest. Religion is a human disease that is cured only by death. And I say " Thank God, for Death." In the end "human stupidity will prevail" and that is the Great Design of the Gods ! Its all in your stupid heads, people !!
Amazing generalizations, these. Please give evidence for your statement of Muslims, “conspiring to harm the infidels is a religious virtue”
Where did you get it from? And “So long as this is preached in mosques and madrases, the infidels have no choice but to preempt violence”
Which mosque and how many mosques have you attended where you heard this being preached from? You are such an awful liar—not even a good one at that. You are not even trying to be sophisticated in your hate but just spewing raw sewage!
And again, “Once among themselves and their leaders, they are out doing Allah's dirty work.”
Did you go and listen to them talk to each other? Are you fluent in Urdu, or Arabic or Punjabi or Farsi or maybe Pashto perhaps that you could so easily eavesdrop and hear what they are saying?
And this usage of the word “infidel”, well, for your information the Quran and the Muslims never use it when referring to either the Christians or the Jews. Both are referred to as the “People of the Book” (meaning the Scriptures) or “ahlal kitaab” in Arabic. So stop wallowing in your own venom. Get enlightened and learn to love.
Are we not war on terror? Internal stabilization of society is more important than war beyond boundaries. Tell our Muslim brothers" have you brought any guy and presented to FBI that catch this guy from our faith with ulterior motive" Muslims should clean their house and nobody will be informant" Information is central to the safety of USA. I congratulate FBI for
Putting a lot of effort for everyone. I challenge Muslims to change their sharia law , satanic verses, woman' s right.
Pl listen to "wafa sultan " on you tube. I would not be worrY,
even if FBI is sharing my house.
1 in 3 of all terrorists are reported to the authorities by members of the U.S. muslim community itself.
I'd say they're doing their part.
1 of 4 black kids smoke pot, so we can assume most black kids smoke pot
1 of 3 Mexican's does cheap labor and takes cash pay. we can assume most Mexican's are job theft
1 of 7 fat people are fat because the visit McD and Burger king, so we can assume McD and Burger are the leading cause of obesity in America.
If we use factors like these, we no longer need to think on our own, might as well let others think for us
It it's true, that would be cool. Post a link where we can verify your claim.
Are we not war on terror? Internal stabilization of society is more important than war beyond boundaries. Tell our Muslim brothers" have you brought any guy and presented to FBI that catch this guy from our faith with ulterior motive" Muslims should clean their house and nobody will be informant. Information is central to the safety of USA. I congratulate FBI for
Putting a lot of effort for everyone. I challenge Muslims to change their sharia law , satanic verses, woman' s right.
Pl listen to "wafa sultan " on you tube. I would not be worr
Ed even if FBI is sharing my house.
good job FBI.... FBI didn't do anything wrong.... they didn't offend God of Islam.... all they did is spy on the people inside the mosque.... and please don't tell me that everyone who visits a mosque or a church or a temple is a saint....
Sending someone in undercover, doesn't violate anyones civil rights. And I for one I'm glad to see the FBI/law enforcement know what they are doing. They have discovered many Jihadis this way in other States, keep up the good work.
Who gives a CRAP about what the FBI did. No one's rights were violated and we are sick of whining Muslims who think America is targeting them because we want to know if they are involved in terrorism. Oh wait, we are targeting them and we have EVERY reason to do so. If they don't like it, they can hop back on the camel they came on and go back and eat sand and live in mud huts. Keep complaining! No one is listening and no one cares about you!
Did you mean to reply to me? I agree with you.
you Americans R The BEST!!!! you animal fat your Idea is like dog eat more food and making dirty with good people so stop crying like woman.
Now that you're a Muslim, why should we believe your story? After all, the FBI denies it.... hahaha
Whats the big deal FBI sends people into churches to spy on pedophile priests. Get over it Muslims, of course you are welcome to go set up shop in Saudi Arabia where the religious police will spy on you.
paranoid white people/
As a non-Muslim I am not happy that the FBI does this kind of thing. As an American I am saddened that the American Muslims in the story above do not seem to see why the FBI is doing this kind of activity. American Muslims... like it or not there are people that worship the god you worship that believe they have a duty to defend Islam against every perceived threat. They murder people every single day across the world. Simply type into Google "Islamic Attack" or "List of Islamic Attacks this year".
The US (thank God) does not allow Islamic terrorists to kill its citizens or the citizens of other countries if we can prevent it. Unlike Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan, Somalia and many other Islamic States that not only encourage terror groups but export terror and the idea of a global jihad. As long as this condition exists in the world the FBI and other agencies will (sadly) be forced to monitor Muslims.
your information about the muslim community in US is very wrong , the Us Muslim community has one of the highest rates of education , and family values and one of the lowest rates of drug abuse, alcoholism , crime , divorce and domestic violence .
and assuming a need for spying , do you think about using an informant that is a drug dealer that has to provide information , or face deportation and loss of citizenship ,was appropritate? is that the right person to use ?
Welcome to any other American's life, Muslims. We all experience the same $h!t but there isn't anything we can do about it. No need to complain.
Totally agree with you!
st*upid m*us*lim hahahahah