Opinion: Don't be fooled, housing segregation is still a reality
Editor’s note: Kris Marsh is on the faculty at the University of Maryland, College Park. She received her Ph.D. from the University of Southern California and was a postdoctoral scholar at the Carolina Population Center at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. She is on Facebook and on Twitter @drkrismarsh.
By Kris Marsh, Special to CNN
(CNN) - Recently, the Manhattan Institute, a conservative think tank released a study, "The End of the Segregated Century." Highlights of the study hit the press like wildfire. Headlines like “Segregation hits historic low” jumped off the page, and articles declared the findings to be proof that “the legacy of the civil rights era is still strong.”
Given that one of my areas of emphasis as a sociologist and demographer is racial residential segregation, I was saturated with emails, Facebook posts, and Tweets asking for my reaction. Above all, my main response is that we must be careful as consumers of information; in this case, readers who stop at the headlines are in danger of overlooking the fact that race still maters and that blacks are still highly segregated in the United States.
As social scientist, we employ three overarching theories to explain the existence and persistence of racial residential segregation: economics, preferences and discrimination.
Economics
Historically, there was a time when only the small population of free blacks were able to own property. This set the groundwork for the wealth disparities between blacks and whites that persists today. In general, unlike potential white home seekers, potential black homebuyers often do not inherit wealth from the previous generation. In most cases, blacks do not have the flexibility to borrow money from parents to purchase their homes. This potentially limits blacks’ ability to purchase homes in certain locations causing middle class blacks homeowners to live in close proximity to the black poor and reside in suburban areas less substantively white and affluent than their white middle class counterparts.
By way of illustration, consider Baldwin Hills, California. Baldwin Hills is a predominantly black area in Los Angeles County. This area encompasses both multi-million dollar homes and a housing project with a reputation so dangerous that during the 1980s and 1990s, it was commonly known as “The Jungle.” In the 2001 Denzel Washington film Training Day, this housing project was used as the location for a scene in which a police detective engages in a midday gun battle. That same year, the director of the film Love and Basketball chose a multi-million dollar home in the same area to represent the residence of a former professional basketball star.
This divergent cinematic representation of Baldwin Hills illustrate the propinquity of the black middle class and the black poor and provides a dramatic example of a widespread phenomenon: that the black middle class is a spatial and social buffer between the white middle class and the black poor.
Discrimination
The discrimination perspective points to a range of public policies and private practices that perpetuate racial residential segregation and deter blacks from moving into predominantly white neighborhoods. Beginning in the 1930s and continuing through the 1970s, the Federal Housing Administration adopted the practice of "red-lining," a discriminatory rating system to evaluate the risks associated with loans made to borrowers in certain areas resulting in financial institutions denying loans based on those areas, usually dominated by the poor and minorities. Research on the recent housing crisis shows that the geographic concentration of high-risk loans and foreclosures had strong racial undertones.
Private discriminatory practices include "racial steering," where real estate agents channeling black clients into racially mixed or predominantly black neighborhoods or quoting astronomical prices in areas that are predominantly white in hopes of deterring black buyers. Real estate agents have been known to use fear to persuade whites to buy property near other whites and/or move when non-whites move into the neighborhood ("blockbusting").
The treatment of blacks in the housing market provides strong evidence that discrimination played and continues to play an important role in explaining why blacks and whites live in highly segregated neighborhoods.
Preferences
A large body of segregation literature suggests that racial differences in residential preferences perpetuate racial segregation. For example, the preference of more-advantaged groups, usually affluent whites, is to distance themselves from less-advantaged groups, usually blacks and the poor. While this suggests that whites prefer majority white areas, blacks tend to prefer areas that are equally integrated (half-black and half-white) and they prefer more black neighbors than do member of other racial and ethnic groups.
A residential segregation research finding that I have always found interesting and equally offensive is that Asians, Latinos, and whites all rank blacks as the racial group least desired to have as neighbors. This finding holds up even taking class into consideration: when middle class blacks move into white neighborhoods, whites are still inclined to move.
I live in Prince George’s County—known as the wealthiest black county in America—and often ask fellow residents, who are upwardly mobile and have the social and human capital to live in a number of counties, their reasons for selecting this area. The most common answer I get is: “I want to live around other black middle class people and I want my children to grow up around other black middle class children.” (See the book "Blue Chip Black" by Karyn Lacy for further discussion on this topic.)
When you take all this into consideration, it is clear that there is much more to this story than the headlines trumpeting record low levels of residential segregation. Blacks are still more likely to have black neighbors than white ones. And by no means does lower black segregation suggest that we live in a “post-racial” society—a term that Tim Wise recently called a “nonsense term devised by those who would simply rather not deal with the ever-present reality of racism and ongoing racial discrimination.” The take home message should be that race (and class) still matter in terms of residential housing patterns. Yes, segregation is decreasing, but it is still alive and well.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Kris Marsh.
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from my experience (and i'm 57 years old) most white folks prefer to live around other white folks//ie,in predominantly white areas//i while the media loves to portray interrracial rlationships and hih school kids of all colors hanging out together as being the everyday norm,this is far from the truth. for the most part whites still hang with whites,blacks with blacks etc...prime time tv and hollywood movies do not depict the norm//i see nothing wrong with preference and that includes white flight,which even i am a victim of..real estate agents are msart enough to pick up on the fact when someone is white flighting and he has the knowledge of those areas and will then endorses them./
HOUSING SEGREGATION ?????NOT TRUE....YOU CAN LIVE ANYWHERE YOU WANT IF YOU CAN AFFORDED ..CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE IN AN UPPER CLASS TOWN ? BLAME YOURSELF, STOP BLAMING WHITES...LOOK AT TIGER WOODS ? HE IS PROBABLY THE ONLY BLACK PERSON IN HIS NEIGHBORHOOD ...MONEY DICTATE WHERE YOU LIVE...STAY IN SCHOOL--STAY AWAY FROM THE WRONG CROWS --STAY AWAY FROM DRUGS...I'M SURE MOM SAID THAT OVER AND OVER BUT MANY DID NOT LISTEN....BLAME YOURSELF.
Clearly you didnt read anything Dr. Marsh wrote and/or paid attention in your U.S. History course in high school.
Clearly you didn't read his post. He didn't refer to any past event, his post is in present tense. What does History class have to do with his comment: "MONEY DICTATE WHERE YOU LIVE...STAY IN SCHOOL–STAY AWAY FROM THE WRONG CROWS –STAY AWAY FROM DRUGS" Seems like sensible advice..
History, as Kris Marsh noted in her post, lets us know that economics was never the driving force behind racial steering. Reading social scientific examinations of the effect of race in the housing market shows not much has changed.
I agree. As evidenced by Ms. Marsh's own commentary when Blacks told her "I want to live around other black middle class people and I want my children to grow up around other black middle class children.”
The most liberal position among ante-bellum Democrats regarding slavery was that slavery was an issue that should be decided by popular vote. For example, Stephen Douglas, Lincoln’s opponent in the 1858 Illinois senate race and the 1860 presidential campaign, advocated "popular sovereignty." He defended the right of the people in the territories to outlaw slavery, but also defended the right of Southerners to own slaves and transport them to the new territories.
The Democratic Party’s war against African-Americans continued after the Civil War (which many Democrats in fact opposed, often working actively to undercut the Union war effort). Democrats, both north and south fought the attempt to implement the equality for African-Americans gained at such a high cost. This opposition was often violent. Indeed, the Ku Klux Klan operated as the de facto terrorist arm of the national Democratic Party during Reconstruction.
Democrats defeated Reconstruction in the end and on its ruins created Jim Crow. Democratic liberalism did not extend to issue of race. Woodrow Wilson was the quintessential "liberal racist," a species of Democrat that later included the likes of William Fulbright of Arkansas, Sam Ervin of North Carolina, and Albert Gore, father of Al, of Tennessee.
In the 1920s, the Republican Party platform routinely called for anti-lynching legislation. The Democrats rejected such calls in their own platforms. When FDR forged the New Deal, he was able to pry Blacks away from their traditional attachment to the Party of Lincoln. But they remained in their dependent status, Democrats by virtue of political expediency, not principle.
As the incomparable Ann Coulter has observed, when Strom Thurmond, the praise of whom landed Sen. Lott in hot water, ran a segregationist campaign in 1948, he ran as a Dixie-CRAT, not a Dixie-CAN. When he lost, he went back to being a Democrat. He only repudiated his segregationist views when he later became a Republican
Even the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which supposedly established the Democrats’ bona fides on race, was passed in spite of the Democrats rather than because of them. Republican Senate Minority Leader Everett Dirksen pushed the bill through the Senate, despite the no-votes of 21 Democrats, including Gore Sr. and Robert Byrd, who remains a powerful force in the Senate today. In contrast, only four Republicans opposed the bill, mostly like Barry Goldwater on libertarian principles, not segregationist ones.
Indeed, the case of Sen. Byrd is instructive when it comes to the double standard applied to the two parties when it comes to race. Even those Democrats who have exploited the Lott affair acknowledge that he is no racist. Can the same be said about Sen. Byrd, who was a member of the KKK and who recently used the "n" word on national TV?
"Ah, but this is all in the past," say the Democrats. "Now we push a pro-African-American agenda." But the reality differs significantly from the claim.
Take the issue of education. The single biggest obstacle to the achievement of true equality in the United States is not poverty, but education. If Democrats sincerely wished to help the minority children on whose behalf they claim to labor, they would embrace school choice to help such children escape the trap of sub-standard schools. But that would offend the teachers’ unions upon which the Democrats depend for financial and "in-kind" support. So as has often been the case with the group politics of the Democratic party, African-American interests are sacrificed to other groups who have more pull.
"Affirmative action" has become the touchstone of Democratic racial politics. Democrats portray anyone who opposes affirmative action as racist. But affirmative action, as currently practiced, is racist to the core. It is based on the assumption that African-Americans are incapable of competing with whites. It represents the kind of paternalistic racism that would have done honor to Calhoun. For the modern liberal Democratic racist as for the old-fashioned one, blacks are simply incapable of freedom. They will always need Ol’ Massa’s help. And woe be to any African-American who wanders off of the Democratic plantation. Ask Clarence Thomas, Thomas Sowell, Shelby Steele, or Ward Connerly. Although they echo the call for a "color-blind society" that once characterized the vision of Martin Luther King Jr., they are pilloried as "Uncle Toms" of "Oreos" by such enforcers of the Democratic plantation system as Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton.
If we need the perfect symbol for the true character of the Democratic Party when it comes to race, we need look no farther than Rhode Island Congressman Patrick Kennedy. Rep. Kennedy portrays himself as a friend of African-Americans. But his touching solicitude for African-Americans as a group is gross hypocrisy. When inconvenienced by a real African-American woman trying to do her job, Rep. Kennedy shoved her out of his way, giving her arm a yank for good measure. In practice, the Democratic Party as a whole cares as much about real African-Americans as Rep. Kennedy does.
I found this article to be very interesting and insightful. I think it is very easy to become complacent about racial discrimination when we hear statistics about residential segregation declining. However, it is critical that we do not become misguided in our thinking and assume that this is no longer an issue. Dr. Marsh did an excellent job discussing this point.
Thank you for the research on this topic. Based on my experiences whites move out when blacks move in. Another article written that I am able to embrace. I appreciate your efforts to bring these and other topics to us. Please continue to educate.........
KIM, WHITES MOVING OUT OF TIGER WOODS NEIGHBORHOOD ??? OR SHAG ?? WRITE MY POST ABOVE..
READ MY POST
Economics isn't just white people's fault. It's hard to afford a house for any single mother with a bunch of kids. Going to college, marrying, then having kids might make things easier... well... unless you just want to blame white people for your problems.
Ahh, I see you are demonstrating your Ivy League education again. Using those big words I see. Everybody with an ounce of brain knows you are a blowhard who cannot figure out how to turn off the caps lock button. You post racist gibberish, list no sources and then scream "racist" at those who disagree. (By the way, nooooo one believes your educational claims) Love ya Ghost/Spirit, or whatever your calling yourself now..
Ghost/Spirit, I noticed on 2/15/2012 you responded to someone's post and mentioned my family. Specifically my wife and brotherin-law.. Please refrain from bringing my family into this. I really don't mind your name calling and racist rants aimed towards me, I find it rather amusing, but even you must know that it is beyond the pale to bring someone's family into the arguement..
Ahhh, Ghost/Spirit is demonstrating that Ivy League education again by using those big words.. What could you possibly mean with "FK?" Must be one of those big Ivy League words that the rest of us are just too un-educated to understand.. Love ya Ghost/Spirit
mmm, someone who uses the gutter language that you use telling another to grow up??? You are just full of contradictions Ghost/Spirit.. If you actually wanted to hear my, or any anyone else's, opinion on those subjects you would not speak the way you speak. I noticed that you have asked others to respond to your hateful loaded questions and have gotten no reponse from anyone.. You should learn from past mistakes and speak respectfully, you might then actually engage someone in thoughtful debate.. Love ya Ghost/Spirit
Ahhhh, the Ghost/Spirit responds with more of his thoughful words.. Bet ya all the true Ivy League graduates out there cringe whenever they see another post by you.. 🙂
go fuk yourself get out
Ahh, the Ghost is demonstrating those debate skills he learned in the Ivy League.. Name calling, racial slurs, lying.. You spent you're education money well Ghost..
Here is what I pulled f rom this... In "Economics" she says that black families could not make help them with money to buy houses in better areas. In "Discrimination" she says blacks were given loans to get houses. They kind of cancel each other. White people want to live by white people. Rich by rich, black by black. If you want to move because I have moved into the neighborhood, go ahead. You have the right to do that. I think there are bigger fish to fry. Segregation may exists, but it is the result of everyone, not just white people.
Mexican white democrats created Jim Crow and it was the party that implemented segregation laws go check the history.
I am from the West Indies ,a Caribbean island . I have lived in London, Canada and here the USA. I never met racism or such total ignorance based on preconceived ideas until I came here. I would call myself educated . I had a college degree and I was a school teacher in my own country . Although I graduated with honors from college I had to take the GED in order to get into college here. Well I did not have to take the actual class since the gentleman at the center asked why I was even there . I took the pretest and scored too high for that. I CLEP the test itself and scored high enough to get a Florida high school diploma. No matter what type of degree you have from another country it is not acceted here even though the the level of the educational system elsewhere may be higher. I used that as my stepping stone (putting my pride aside) and started at the bottom. Now I am a college Professor and a Registered Nurse but I still meet people who think I am the Nurses Aide or the LPN and that the whte Nurses Aide/LPN in the room is the Registered Nurse. Nothing wrong with being any of those because I had to climb the ladder that way. But goodess people this is 2012 stop assuming . We are not all crooks and scoundrels niether are we all on Wellfare.I paid my way through college for allmy degrees no PELL or othe grants. My daughter graduates from NYU with her Masters this year no grants only LOANS. My last child is working on her 2nd degree at age 25 years old no PELL grants. I cannot understand why people lump all black people together. People from the Caribbean do not understand this type of racism or the concept that we are all lazy no goods. We are generally hardworking ambitious people. Just that we are BLACK of all shades . NO ONE is responsible for the color of their skin so look at all people through different eyes.
Sad, but absolutely typical.
@THE SPIRIT OF ANASTACIO HERNANDEZ, KILLED BY THE BORDER PATROL
A delusional w e t b a c k with obvious issues you remind me of a small dog that nibbles at ankles they bite but it dont hurt you can only laugh at them. You tamale smelling rio grande river rat.
I hate to point out what no one is willing to say, but here it is. Look at the demographics of cities and neighborhoods....and the higher the blk population, the higher the crime. You can't deny facts that are present on every place that keeps records, such as city-data, etc. For that reason, I stick to white neighborhoods.
I hate to show that you dont read closely but look at the post I showed you before. Whites are more likely than blacks to commit crime, but not be convicted. So if you want your stuff stolen and to see people get away with crime for no other reason than because they're white, stick with Michael...he's a smart racist.
I live in one of those affluent primarily white neighborhoods and if you look at the crime statistics, we have a higher rate than the surrounding less expensive neighborhoods. One of our neighbor's kids was arrested after a drunken/stoned burglary spree one night( he was already on probation from another burglary). Another kid was arrested last year for breaking into homes on New Year's eve and then trying to sell the stuff at a party that included guests from those houses. The idiot was arrested. He was also found to be responsible for an assault and attempted burglary on an elderly gentleman. And there have been many more cases like this. Also, upscale neighborhoods attract criminals who target what are perceived as more affluent areas. Home invasions are more common. All white kids.
Very poor neighborhoods, whether black, white or Latino all tend to have higher violent crime rates. More of a socioeconomic issue.
@MarkinFL your lyiiing a s s
Whites self-segregate.
Blacks self-segregate.
Asians self-segregare.
Hispanics self-segregate.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.
I believe she discussed that fact in the article. However, the other factors are just as real.
Neighborhoods and housing are segregated to an extent, definitely. When I first moved out on my own and tried to find affordable housing we went to look at some apartments in a predominately black area of Washington D.C. As soon as we stepped out of the car and took a few steps towards the complex we were approached by a threatening stranger, yelling obscenities at us. We got back in the car and left. No one wants to be the only white person in a neighborhood of blacks. Such as I believe it'd be the same the other way around. It's human nature to stick with what's familiar to us without making us racists.
Less then 20 years ago,when I called a real estate agent about a home listed in a certain area, she told me that " thats where Black people" live.It was when interest rates were sky high here in California and no one was buying.But I had a solid down payment, excellent credit,VA approval, etc. I made a point to meet with this agent, and the look on her face was priceless when we met. I guess on the phone , she couldn't tell that I was Black ( having to recite MacBeth in high school helped). Needless to say, I didn't want her services, and found a agent that that offered a state first time buyer discounted rate, as well as placing me in a neighborhood, where I was received very well, as the first person of color to buy and move in. The positives and negatives are still out there..
I'll move wherever I want to, when I want to, and next to I want to. We always cryin' bout somebody doin' us wrong. Why do we still have this slave mentality, wanna live wit' massa!!!! First of all, why are you using white real estate agents??? Everybody and their momma got a real estate license.When i bought my house, I got with my homie who just happens to be an agent. I looked everywhere. And when I decided on the house I wanted, I got it. I did'nt give a d****!! about who was next door. As black people why we always tryin to show the white man we just like him. We are not. We are different. We always beggin' whites to accept us. Lift your head up, stand tall, be proud to be black. We the most envyed and copied race of people this world has ever known. They say they don't want to deal with us but everything these other races do are knock-offs from our culture. They know it thats why they hate us so much. I'd rather be feared than loved any day of the week..........
By only choosing a black real estate agent you're being prejudice yourself. Just sayin'. Practice what you preach.
There is a trend of Black Women dating, having relations and marrying White Men. I am a White Man dating a Black Woman. We talk to one another why we are attracted to each other. One of her reasons, is the Black Men mentality which is described to me as crying and pointing the finger about stuff like this.
If a black woman tells you that one of the reasons she is with you(a white male) is because of her past dealings with black men, you should run as fast and as far as you can. Her only reason for being with you should be because of who you are, not the color of your skin or the color of men she has dated in the past. Understand this, men are men regardless of race, language or color. We love life, our wives, and families. We for the most part will handle any issue and stand against any foe that threatens any one of the three. Color of a person is not the issue. It's the character of that individual.
I hope you took the time to let her know that immature, cowardly, unsavory men come in all shapes, colors, and sizes. Some are wealthy, some are poor.
Oprah covered something about this. Black women having a hard time finding husband material in their own race because of the high incidence of black men being raised without fathers or the higher likelihood of them having been in jail or such. It's a sad reality, but it's good to see people more open minded about interracial relationships.
Jon Michael thank you for your comment. I am an African American woman and just as you did I based my decision of where I lived on the same premises as you. The things you mentioned were very important to me as well. I have lived in this home now for eighteen years. I have white neighbors, blacks, and other races and there has never been a problem. Some white people are afraid to live around black folks out of pure ignorance and fear. To know us is to love us. My home is clean, emaculate and I take pride in caring for it. Just as you have white trash, we have black trash, that is the only difference! Period.
Jon Michael, thank you.
What is with the comment : "In general, unlike potential white home seekers, potential black homebuyers often do not inherit wealth from the previous generation". It sounds like you think that many if not most, white homebuyers are able to buy homes because they inherited wealth from a previous generation? Where are the studies supporting that statement? I do not know know anyone in my social circle, or in my neighborhood, of any color, who was able to buy a house because of inherited weath. I am finding your comment quite racist.
Inherited wealth in white families? Haha! That couldn't be further from the truth. If only 1% of our country are considered wealthy, then where does this statistic come from? My family moved here in the early 1900's with a couple bucks in their pocket and worked hard, have been persecuted for thousands of years for their Jewish faith. We're buying a house with tax returns and liquidated 401ks. No one's given me anything.
Statistically, a far higher percentage of white families have had some sort of property to pass down to their children. Of course not all white families have that, but FAR higher percentage of white families do.
Very insightful. This is a problem that I have observed while living in L.A., D.C., and Chicago. I am glad there is someone studying this issue and giving voice to it.
Will the author please refrain from using the term social scientist it degrades the value of real scientist. Thank you.
nomorecare-God Bless You to Know the truth and stop Hating because of Ignorance- I am going to Pray that God will Open your eyes , Love in Jesus!
I somewhat I agree with Vengeful Tick on most of their comments. Yet the dressing does not matter to some even if you were handing them cash. Racism is breeded from ignorant people who have learned to hate because of what they've heard or think rather than what they really know. There are rich, poor, middle class in every race. Some just refuse to except change because they want to think themselves better than another group, class, etc. God is no respector of persons. He blesses whomever he chooses. Whether black, white, brown, etc. Racism is nothing but a sin/curse which if not careful will come back on those who've wrong others. It affects the generations after. God Help Us All not to see color but to Love one another-In Jesus Name
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"While this suggests that whites prefer majority white areas, blacks tend to prefer areas that are equally integrated (half-black and half-white) and they prefer more black neighbors than do member of other racial and ethnic groups."
This explains why the secregation still exists.
"blacks tend to prefer areas that are equally integrated (half-black and half-white) and they prefer more black neighbors than do member of other racial and ethnic groups"
Wha????!?!?! This is a contradictory statement. Both segments could stand on their own, and both are still inaccurate.
"In general, unlike potential white home seekers, potential black homebuyers often do not inherit wealth from the previous generation."
Ummm, racial, stereotypical, and also in accurate. Very few of any race are inheriting from the previous generation.
Whites tend to get money from their parents to buy a house??? LOLLLLL!!!!! My parents are in fact RICH and aren't giving me a dime to buy a house! I'm gonna do it myself, thank you. And I don't make a high salary!
"In general, unlike potential white home seekers, potential black homebuyers often do not inherit wealth from the previous generation." I question what percentage of white home seekers inherit wealth from the previous generation? I'd guess less than 50% (maybe less than 10%), but I'd like to see a study on this claim. My point being, potential white homebuyers often do no inherit wealth from the previous generation either. Arguably the percentage might be higher with whites compared to blacks, but most of us don't inherit wealth and have to make it on our own regardless of skin color.
You should read some of Dalton Conley's work on wealth.
His book is not widely accepted as the definitive explanation of racial differences in wealth. In some circles it is described as disguised Marxism..
This trash article belongs to local newspaper of the ghetto, not here. We don't need to read another oversensitive blacks calling racist to everything they see
I take it you dont mean the Jewish ghettoes, Mr. Kobee?
oh my gosh-when will this paranoia over race end & people just make an honest living & mind their own business?Look for racism & you will find it.Real or not.
So, are black people saving up huge sums of money for that vacation to Africa? Didn't think so. Whites save for vacations to Europe, Asia, even South America. But blacks? Even they take vacations everywhere else BUT Africa.
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If I moved next to a black family, I would be afraid of having to put up with loud "boom boom" music where the bass would be heard throughout my house. Some people have no consideration for others feelings when they play that type of music.
There it goes judging people by the color of their skin, "if I moved next to black people". I am black and live in a mixed neighborhood . I have lived here for 19 years and all my immediate neighbors are white with a Hispanic family in front of me. Most of them have been my neighbors since I moved here and I was the third 4th black family to move in. I don't play that type of music neither does anyone else in the subdivision. The Hispanic family plays spanish music when they gather together but it is not loud and offensive. The only time the cops had to be called for loud music was years ago was when my next door neighbors teenagers (white) had a wild party awhile the parents were away . The Dad came home found the party going and he called the cops to get the group to go home as they were still hanging around after he shut it down.
There is a trend of Black Women dating, having relations and marrying White Men. I am a White Man dating a Black Woman. We talk to one another why we are attracted to each other. One of her reasons, is the Black mentality which is described to me as crying and pointing the finger about stuff like this.
One of the many things is the white mentality committing racist acts and then ignoring the benefits they receive from those acts.
My ancestors were farmers from the Netherlands who emigrated from the Netherlands in 1892. No one in my family has ever owned a slave of any kind. I chose my neighborhood based on my perceived ability to resell my home should I later decide to move. I based it on crime statistics, quality of schools, and proximity to areas of town I would like to frequent. It never crossed my mind as to what nationality my neighbors were, nor what the color of their skin was. I suspect most white people are the same as me (with the exception of the Dutch heritage 😉
What I mostly took from this article is that black people segregate themselves regardless of socioeconomic status. While the color of a person's skin has no bearing on their intelligence, capabilities, etc; one's CULTURE has a huge influence on such things.
Shhh. People don't like honesty when it doesn't benefit them.
No, I believe the author's saying that blacks want the freedom to partake in the American dream like other groups..... Equality, what an interesting concept.
The thing is, blacks are more prone to commit random acts of violence. Whites can be violent, but it's not usually random. People fear blacks because of the nonsensical violence in their neighborhoods. It's like an entire race of lone wolves, everybody doing whatever makes them feel good at the time, not thinking anything through. No one can be safe when those types of people are around.
Ummm, no. Whites are more likely to commit crime, but blacks are more likely to be convicted of crimes. Can we say, whiteness?
"Whites are more likely to commit crimes"? Don't let your emotions take away from the truth.
Just for you Chris: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/01/blacks-far-more-likely-th_n_817105.html
phillip granville spaulding, the news article you quote talkes about sentencing not the act of committiing. I have notices that you seem to cite obscure news reports to back up your claims, and frequently mis-state what they were about..
No Kelly, I cite things you may have access to such as news reports. I can cite peer reviewed journal articles that directly speak to these issues, but you likely don't have access to those. Your comment about government benefits is equally troubling. The percentage of federal aid to welfare is under five percent and of that five percent, most goes to Medicare....a program for those who are retired.
phillip granville spaulding, the news article you quote talkes about sentencing not the act of
phillip granville spaulding, please refresh my memory about my comment on government benefits.. The post we are replying to has nothing to do with that subject and I see no comments I have made on that subject here. The post we are responding to was talking about crime an violence. But since you have decided to go off track and talk about welfare, your statement that welfare is 5% of the US budget is very confusing. Even a breakdown of President Obama's budget shows that much more is spent on welfare. Again, not sure where you get your information. Oh, and I did notice your swipe at my perceivged lack of education.. How petty..
“I want to live around other black middle class people and I want my children to grow up around other black middle class children"
Then we don't need social and cultural integration.
A racist is one who won't deal with the problems of their own but condemns all other races.
In college I have to give sources for quoting or protraying statistics and facts. Yet I see none in the author's story. Please show me facts and resources. I live in a community that is middle and upper-middle class. It's a great mix of black & white with a few other races sprinkled in.
Stereotypes to exist for a reason. I've lived in trailor parks, I've lived in lower-income housing, I've lived in upper-middle class neighborhoods. You could see the stereotypes fitting more than not. It's just the way it is. See a pick-up truck with one bench seat with 6 people in it? 9 times out of 10 it's Mexicans. See a low-income housing area with that Caprice Classic having ostrich seats and 22's on it? Chances are it's owner is black. Several cars all over the front yard of which one works and the others are in various stages of dis-repair? Chances are the owner is white.
Does this make me racist? Or am I simply pointing out the stereotypes? Are there exceptions to all of them? Of course there are. I moved out at 17. Got a job, kept going to school. I needed a way out. My parents were both dissabled and dirt poor. I needed money for college. I joined the Army. It was my out because as much as I did my best in school...I couldn't get scholorships and student loans were not an option (no credit, no family income). It's been 15 years and I've worked hard at getting to where I am.
Am I rich? No...in debt up to my eyeballs. But I make no excuses...I am where I am due to my own decisions. I don't blame my parents because they are poor.
Many people here have really hit the nail on the head with this. It's more of an economic class issue than anything. To the person who said that her and her husband made a lot of money but weren't shown a specific house because the realtor didn't think they could afford it. Did you look like you could? Not speaking of race, but dress, and conduct. I often go to places and get looked at with an odd eye. I remember when I was finally able to get my dream car, a BMW 525i. I went in some average joe/lower income clothes and they looked at me odd until I showed them my pre-approval. The same has gone for me when shopping for my two large screen HDTVs. I got an odd eye in some old clothes until I paid...it's not so much about race as it is how you conduct yourself and how you dress. I expect that reaction when I dress down (meaning, dressing in relaxing clothes).
Great post!
I agree. We usually get the same looks because we dress down.. most of the time. We aren't in a position to buy new fancy clothes all the time because it's more important to make sure our debts are paid and we have healthy foods on the table for our family. My husband has an excellent credit score, and we live well within our means. We live comfortably from a $30k a year salary supporting three people. The problem is many people keep themselves poor by not living within their means and trying to keep up with societies ever changing consumerist trends.
The author references a number of works to support her argument. How many did you reference in yours?
phillip granville spaulding, can you please name one of the studies for me. I must have missed it, which I occassionally do.
So again, why do blacks force themselves into living around whites? Isn't living with other blacks good enough? If not, then what's they problem? Ahh, must be getting away from that "culture". So tell me, what culture are most well-off blacks wanting? Not their own, that's for sure.
So you didn't read the part of the article where she articulated that wealthy blacks choose live in affluent Prince George's county together? Blacks by in large are not racist, so they look for the AMERICAN DREAM like everyone else. Most new neighborhoods are in the suburbs so people want a new house move to the suburbs. Redoing houses was just really catching on in America when the recession hit so, so urban renewal was taking place. Most minorities just don't let color deter them, and that is the difference. Everyone knows there are hateful whites and nice whites, and so they feel free, unlike you, to explore the world, and CHOOSE any type life they want. I can't imagine living in you small pent up world, must be boring in there.
You sound ignorant. Black people don't have one all encompassing culture.
this is a free country "amigo". I live in California & have great renters in my houses (hispanic, white & black). need to get used to see asians & east indians moving into wealthy "white" neighborhoods. I am a green eyes latino that have nothing in common with indians for instance (other than a common career). they enriched me & I have the opportunity to witness to the them about Christ my Saviour. In my church our pastor is white, deacons from all colors, we have whites, asians, hispanics & blacks ...... we loved one another, for it is bible.
to whomever left me a comment with no name: I am not blonde at all. I am a proud Latino, yes! I happen to sit on church every Sunday & learn about the love of Christ. I "learned" thru my faith to love everyone, even my enemies. contrary to the Hollywood stars our brothers & sisters @ church visit the poor in Stockton, Manteca, Lathrop & Modesto evey week and bring them in our buses 250 a week .. glory to God! we lov the poor & try to do what the savior commands us to do. Please do not confuse me with the un-decent latinos of Hollywood. I am not that rich, popular & by all means not as good looking. America will change if we forgive one another, work hard as what we do & stick to our families. God, Family, Country.
faideal, I enjoyed you're post.. You seem very sincere, and I am glad you are doing well.
"Being American" is a culture, your post reeks of ignorance as if ALL black people behave the same way and believe the same things. Not all black people want to live around white people or think white people are the most wonderful thing on this earth. I can only speak for myself when I say I prefer a neighborhood of mixed nationalities and that is much more than just black and white. Anyone who wants to live a peaceful life does not want to live in "the hood" has nothing to do with that persons nationality.
agree. 100% still a lot of ignorance out there. just do what is right and you never be wrong. God cannot be mocked. If you read this reply & have children teach them to love everyone regardless of the color of their skin. If people do not know how to love because were taugh hate, then go the place of worship were the bible in being preached and learn from the Master – JesusChrist my Lord. the problem in the back community is mainly that MALES are not sticking to their homes by largernumbers than other races. Once this change, the family will be strong, the finances of the house strong, the stability of the childre strong, our communities in general strong. MEN in general are under attack by the system in this country, even Hollywood ridicuols Godly MEN and portray them MEN as sizzys. that is eroding one of the mot important pilllars of the household. Once the leaders are removed from the houses we can see the consequences for th rest of the family.
Some one at CNN write articles about Latinos and Blacks, stereotyping these groups as violent, lazy, illegal, not good English, you name it, by doing so they are creating move division amongst all races. CNN is as racist as the white people in this country. The employee who writes this articles can be black, latino , it doen't matter , they are just writting what the white bosses are asking them to do.
I sensed no anger in Marsh's essay, but the shouting in your comments scares me. Is all well with you? Do you have something you'd like to get off of your chest?
That's correct. They work hard to get out of the ghetto and don't ever want to go back. These next generations coming up might be interesting to watch, because there are quite a few rich black people nowadays. Majority of the NFL and NBA is comprised of black athletes with LOTS of money. Reference Chris Rock for this one, the only unfortunate factor is blacks are more likely to spend the money on useless items like cars and jewelry instead of investing to generate more revenue. The black athlete is rich, but the white man who signs his paycheck is wealthy.
Have you read Marsh's work or essay? It appears as though you havent. The athlete or comedian is not the average member of the black middle class. Moreover, racism (people willingly charging blacks more for the same items that whites purchase at a lower rate) prevents blacks economic advancement.
I think it's more a financial sense and not just discrimination. People would much rather buy a home or real estate where affluent white people are. Like I much rather buy a house in a white neighborhood than I Latino neighborhood, it just make more financial sense
Why, because low self esteem makes some whites believe they have to be BETTER than others, and this is racism at it's core. So they start running when anyone of color -Asian, Indian, Black, move in even though these people have the money and socioeconomic class to move into the area. It is a sad commentary on our society.
So it's just white people's insecurities? Perhaps it isn't as simple as that. Different cultures has a lot to do with it, for instance.
Chris we are all Americans. Stop trying to divide and conquer. My next door neighbors are Armenian, across the street there is a family from England, then we have a mixed Asian and White couple, and mixed Black and White couple and then many other whites and Asians. And everybody is always friendly, and nobody has a problem. I don't know what you think people do at home, most Americans know we are a melting pot and enjoy one another's differences. And our food get togethers are always a wonderful cultural exchange. What are you hiding?
I believe people are more inclined to stick with what's familiar to them. To say that white people are insecure is incredibly generalized and again.. prejudice. So, practice what you preach. The reason I personally don't like living in predominately black neighborhoods is because of my experiences living in Atlanta as a child. I was not allowed to ride my bike in certain parts of my neighborhood because I would be taunted. I had my bike stolen by those kids numerous times. Mind you, I've had good experiences with blacks. Grew up with many as friends, and they had the same beef with their own race as I did. White people have sticky fingers too, but I usually have a better judgment of what they are up to because I'm white myself. Different cultures have better understandings of each other.
Lynda chastises Chris for trying to "divide and conquer," and then uses racial stereotyping to make her point.. mmm, I think Lynda has issues..
I agree. Property values in 'white' neighborhoods are higher. It does make financial sense, but there is are still elements of race and discrimination as the author pointed out.
it i sad but true. I am latino & agree. However, I will never move to a neighborhood that has only 1 race. that is weird especially in California.
huh? why would people rather buy a house where affluent whites are? what makes that area special? This is not true for everyone.
CNN = Communist News Network enough said
I am a hispanic housing professional, the author fails to mention is that the Fair Housing Act prohibits redlining, stearing and block busting. Those who prevail against these practices get huge awards in civil court. This law was even enfoeced against a Hasidic jew who wanted to move to a Hasidic neighborhood in Bensonhurst Brooklyn so he could be near people who share his cultural ties. He r poor renter sued and lost because the feds were trying to integrate the neighborhood.
Why is it that the middle class blacks in the author's neighboorhood do not move to the black ghettos, the answer is because they do not want the driveby shootings and crime. However, if you are poor and rely on an inner city housing authority they may offer an apartment in a black ghetto to a poor white or hispanic to "intergrate" and thereby maling these "outsiders" targets. This occured in LA's infamous Nickerson Gardens in Watts. I live in an integrated housing tract and have great black, white and hispenic neighbors. The Fair Housing Act has flaws in that it fails to look at the reality of high crime areas and the need for cultural ties. It is also dumd in that it requires a landlord to allow a wheelchair tenant to move to the 4th flooe in a building with no elevator, when a fire ovvurs and the disabled person dies the landlord gets sued because to not allow that disabled tenant to move into the 4th floor is illegal..