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Opinion: 'Doonesbury' strip says Texas' abortion law is rape - I agree
"Doonesbury" is currently focusing on Texas' abortion law. You can view the strip at GoComics.com/doonesbury.
March 15th, 2012
07:41 PM ET

Opinion: 'Doonesbury' strip says Texas' abortion law is rape - I agree

Editor's note: Carole Simpson is the leader-in-residence at Emerson College’s School of Communication in Boston, where she teaches journalism and communications classes. She is the first woman or minority to be the sole moderator of a presidential debate, and chronicled her 40 years as a broadcast journalist in her memoir, "Newslady."

For an opposing view, click here.

By Carole Simpson, Special to CNN

(CNN) - Pulitzer Prize-winning cartoonist Garry Trudeau has done it again.  For more than 40 years his comic strip, “Doonesbury” has been criticized for poking fun at presidents, other political figures and government decisions. But his strip is being yanked from some newspapers this week because, for the second time in his career, he has created a storyline that takes on abortion, God forbid.

What prompted Trudeau to invite the wrath of conservative pro-lifers everywhere is the new Texas law, which demeans, demoralizes, and may even damage the reproductive organs of women who dare to seek an abortion.  Passed by the Republican-controlled Texas legislature and signed by Gov. Rick Perry, the law forces a woman who wants an abortion to receive information about her fetus that only can be obtained by a vaginal ultrasound.

During the procedure a doctor inserts a 10-inch sonogram wand into the vagina of a pregnant woman. Then the doctor must show her the image of her fetus and make her listen to the heartbeat.  Then the woman goes home to spend 24 hours considering her decision to abort.  Texas lawmakers wanted to make the procedure so invasive, so painful, and so emotionally devastating that the woman would change her mind.  They hope the woman bears the baby, which may have been conceived through rape or incest, or even if the birth may endanger her life.  It’s a prescription for child abuse, child neglect, or child abandonment.

For this week’s “Doonesbury,” Trudeau created a story damning the Texas legislature.  It begins with a Texas woman going to a clinic seeking an abortion.  The nurse tells her:  “The male Republicans who run Texas require that all abortion seekers be examined with a 10” shaming wand.”  WOW.

Another strip shows a doctor about to perform the procedure, and the bubble of words coming from his mouth says, “By the authority invested in me by the GOP base, I thee rape.” BAM. Trudeau pulls no punches.

Trudeau told The Washington Post that the procedure, in itself, is a form of rape: “The World Health Organization defines rape as ‘physically forced or otherwise coerced penetration— even if slight– of the vulva or anus, using a penis, other body parts, or an object,’” said Trudeau. “You tell me the difference.”

The cartoonist has picked sides on what’s being called the “war on women.” He thinks women are getting a raw deal.  But that’s of little comfort.  Eight states now require ultrasounds before a woman can get an abortion and two others are fighting legal challenges to implement the procedure.  None of the other states, however, have laws that require the invasive ultrasounds Texas mandates.

Women of the Lone Star state should look into the possible infringement of their rights guaranteed by the Eighth Amendment to the Constitution prohibiting “cruel and unusual punishments.”  That would appear on its face to include vaginal ultrasound procedures inflicted on women by a state government.

Women used to proudly herald, “We’ve come a long way, baby.”  But now it looks like we’ve hit a brick wall and men are starting to take back some of the mileage we fought so hard to gain.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Carole Simpson.

Posted by ,
Filed under: Health • Politics • What we think • Women
soundoff (2,400 Responses)
  1. Nicholas in Florida

    I though that conservatives were against government regulations and big government telling us what to do? Oh, just because it goes against your morals you are willing to compromise your beliefs, how amazingly pitiful. This issue was put to rest with Roe v. Wade. Move on to fixing real problems like cleaning up the problems that Bush and his cronies have left for us.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • sean green

      By that logic slavery was put to rest during Dred Scott. You know Jane Roe is pro life now right?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:57 pm | Report abuse |
      • Tracy

        I'm sure it sucked having her name associated with this case...But that isn't the point. There are lots of women with lots of reasons...Some of which are medically necessary. The right to terminate a pregnancy is bigger than Roe... or the men who passed this law... Frankly, the procedure often saves adult female lives. This new law will torture women who want children but have to terminate. These things happen.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:06 pm | Report abuse |
      • Mack

        Irrelevant, Sean. If that's your big trump card, you've got a lot of work to do in your debating skills.

        March 14, 2012 at 12:23 am | Report abuse |
  2. indianinusa

    well, if it is rap3, then ban all such ultrasound tests completely. guess who will protest it then? yes, the house slaves who are part of the democrat plantation party. in 1983, blacks opposed abortion. planned parenthood was started by a eugenicist who wanted to eradicate blacks and today planned parenthood targets blacks. this professor gets a few crumbs thrown at her in the form of grants and now sings the line of white eugenicists. shame on this house slave.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • Drew

      lol "targets backs." Last time I heard, planned parenthood provides a service

      March 13, 2012 at 10:00 pm | Report abuse |
      • bridhesdottir

        Speaking as a black person, I have to say that we aren't exactly in short supply. I don't know how we ended up being called "minorities".

        March 14, 2012 at 12:45 am | Report abuse |
    • CommonSense

      "if it is rap3, then ban all such ultrasound tests completely"

      Your conclusion is not a valid result of your proposition (i.e., if this use of ultrasound is actually rape, it will not result in the ban of all ultrasounds (that is your implication). The rest of your statements don't make sense, given this.

      March 13, 2012 at 10:03 pm | Report abuse |
  3. Hansel

    "It’s a prescription for child abuse, child neglect, or child abandonment." <- And what is abortion a prescription for?? I love the liberal logic – kill the baby to protect it from being harmed!

    March 13, 2012 at 9:48 pm | Report abuse |
    • howdareI

      pretty soon they'll be using that logic on the rest of us, kill us before we can question their stupidity. You have to love that about liberals, they are very liberal at taking away your liberty!

      March 13, 2012 at 9:50 pm | Report abuse |
      • sean green

        We can't be trusted to make our own decisions eh? That is taking away work from a government official.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:52 pm | Report abuse |
      • Tracy

        Dude, If somebody passed a law that said you needed an unnecessary medical procedure before making a decision about your body, you'd scream about lost liberty. The difference here is that you aren't a female.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:02 pm | Report abuse |
      • howdareI

        Tracy – you think there aren't already tons of mandated procedures that we have to go through, and guess what, they're worse because they aren't even passed through a law of our elected officials, they are by insurance companies and doctors who you have no control over. Your position isn't even an argument. At the bottom of all of this, is a complete sense of sick and tiredness of this recent government trend to be all things to all people by taking away everything from everyone. I actually think that abortion has its place and there are definite needs for it, but I am sick and tired of the socialist push to keep stepping on my liberty everywhere possible. Our founding fathers would kick all of our pansy asses into the see and start over. The U.S. is a disgrace right now.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:09 pm | Report abuse |
      • Hansel

        Tracy – not YOUR body. The body of another human being.

        howdare1 – this is the same website (CNN) that had a front page article yesterday calling for the FCC to forciably remove Rush Limbaugh from the airwaves. Freedom of speech, the right to LIFE, liberty, & pursuit of happiness – these things are all ok as long as they fit the liberal worldview. Otherwise they must be abolished.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:09 pm | Report abuse |
      • Tracy

        Of course its my body!!! Thats the point. Thats what I fight for.... Rights to My Body... and sure.... I hate these mandated things as much as anybody else. If I'm pregnant & know that there is a probability that taking the pregnancy to term could kill me...guess what???? I don't want your opinion to have an effect on my healthcare.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:22 pm | Report abuse |
      • Mack

        Hansel: This is where you're gravely mistaken. Of course it's about the woman's body, just like it's about your own body. You want to default to the undeveloped cell mass instead of a living, breathing human being. This is why you won't advocate for embryonic stem cell treatment for a 5 year-old burn victim because the embryo will be destroyed....never mind that it was a left-over from an in vitro couple and would be trashed anyway. Sometimes your dogma won't allow you to see the forest for the trees, dude.

        March 14, 2012 at 12:36 am | Report abuse |
    • sean green

      Well they already support the right to die and euthanasia, this only changes the decision of killing yourself to the parent. I've heard it argued the baby would much rather prefer that then adoption but all the adopted kids I know grew up to be pro life.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:51 pm | Report abuse |
      • profart

        Then you don't know many adopted kids. The rate of pro-life and pro-choice is about the same as the rest of the population.

        Adoption is also not always an option. Additionally, pregnancy is not an easy thing. If I had a young daughter who was raped, or if my mother was raped, and the result was a pregnancy, I sure would prefer there be safe methods for ending such a pregnancy available- without any more trauma than necessary, thank you very much.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:12 pm | Report abuse |
    • Drew

      YOu realize that with every insemination, hundreds of thousands of sperm are killed? When a woman ovulates, a potential human is destroyed. This happens all the time naturally already

      March 13, 2012 at 9:51 pm | Report abuse |
      • profart

        And it is estimated that some 50% of actual pregnancies (where an egg is fertilized and implants) end in miscarriage before the 12th week.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:59 pm | Report abuse |
      • Mack

        Yes, they commonly forget that. Or, they forget all of their friends who had in vitro and a bunch of the embryos didn't make it. Oh well....at least their friends got to have that kid (or four) that was their god-given right.

        March 14, 2012 at 12:38 am | Report abuse |
    • BobTBuilder

      I think the government should just offer free euthanization for unwanted pregancies. That way they don't have to be involved with what happens in between.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:55 pm | Report abuse |
    • SodaPop

      How true.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:56 pm | Report abuse |
    • BMW57

      A fetus is still not a baby, even if you wish really really hard.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:57 pm | Report abuse |
      • BobTBuilder

        Thank god you're here to offer these moral arguments.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:58 pm | Report abuse |
      • sean green

        it's also not a plant or an insect. It has a functioning heart and a brain as well.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:59 pm | Report abuse |
      • Hansel

        Please google "Gianna Jessen", then come back and explain again how an aborted fetus isn't a human.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:02 pm | Report abuse |
      • SodaPop

        I guess to a immoral person; calling a living being a aborted fetus somehow makes it all ok. Even though it's fully formed, has a heartbeat, and feels pain.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:13 pm | Report abuse |
      • profart

        Sean, am embryo often does not yet have a working heart or brain.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:14 pm | Report abuse |
      • Rigel54

        A fertilized egg is not a baby. A fetus may or may not have a heart and brain, depending on how you define them and what stage of development. Certainly in the 1st trimester they cannot be said to be remotely developed enough to be "human."

        March 13, 2012 at 10:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • profart

      According to recent studies, having abortion as a safe and viable option with appropriate counseling to support a woman in early pregnancy leads to fewer abortions, and fewer deaths of the women who do choose to have them. If I was a rape victim, and the result was a potentially dangerous pregnancy, where would I rather be- in a world where I could get a safe abortion, or a world where I would have to go to a back alley to end that pregnancy or risk the complications? Where would you want your daughter to be?

      March 13, 2012 at 10:02 pm | Report abuse |
      • Hansel

        So you would be ok with banning abortion for people who are simply inconvienienced by getting pregnant and allowing abortion ONLY in the case of rape? If not, then your logic rings hollow.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:12 pm | Report abuse |
      • profart

        Since my longer post was eaten, I'll just say here- abortion should be reserved for medical necessity- which should be a decision made by a doctor, not a politician.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:43 pm | Report abuse |
  4. SodaPop

    What bunch of selfish and lazy self serving fools!

    Yeah, you have to be careful with a woman's reproductive organs. She she may actually want to have a child some day, so don't stick a 10 inch wand in there, just put some forceps in there and yank the child out piece by piece. It would be just awful if she was made to feel guilty about killing a living being. Of course many women DO feel guilty afterward. Many women find it hard to live with themselves after the procedure, but let's ignore that as well.

    It may be perfectly legal to pluck a plant from the ground, dry it, and smoke it, but no one would argue that the plant was alive before it was plucked.

    Also abortions hurt your reproductive organs worse than any wand would, as they cause scar tissue.

    Murder is murder, so how dare you compare the act of stopping it to rape!

    March 13, 2012 at 9:47 pm | Report abuse |
    • Observer

      FACT: It is imore dangerous for a woman to deliver a baby than to have an aboriton.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:51 pm | Report abuse |
      • SodaPop

        It becomes more dangerous after each abortion. Abortions cause miscarriages. Either way; abortion is 100% lethal for the baby.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:54 pm | Report abuse |
      • howdareI

        SOLUTION: Effective immediately NO MORE DELIVERIES – ABORT all babies, it's whats best for the women.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:55 pm | Report abuse |
      • God's-Girl

        Where are you getting your "facts" from?

        March 13, 2012 at 10:11 pm | Report abuse |
    • Tracy

      ummm Huh? pot? huh?....

      March 13, 2012 at 9:55 pm | Report abuse |
      • SodaPop

        Pot??? I was making a point about what's alive, and what is legal. It had nothing to do with pot. Liberals...

        March 13, 2012 at 9:59 pm | Report abuse |
    • profart

      Actually, the plant IS alive before you pluck it. Plants are living things- basic, elementary-school biology tells you that. Never planted a seed in a paper cup?

      D&C does not use forceps. It is also a safer procedure than delivering a baby, when done in a proper clinic.

      However, I applaud the fact that you made no exceptions for rape, incest, or the life of the mother in your consideration of the life of the embryo (the usual stage for a D&C) or fetus. Either it is a baby, or it is not. No need for discussions about raping a rape victim again, if she wishes to abort, then you don't care about that or her, anyway.

      Of course, if she had contraception available to her, she probably wouldn't have gotten pregnant in the attack- although no method is 100% effective (keeping in mind that a rape victim cannot choose abstinence- that's the definition of rape).

      March 13, 2012 at 9:58 pm | Report abuse |
      • SodaPop

        Uhhh, that's what I STATED, That the plant is alive. It may be legal to kill it, but you can't argue that it's not alive. You're a little slow on the uptake?

        I didn't bring up rape because less than 1% of abortions have to do with rape, so that point is moot. Also, of course the life of the mother is important, then you are simply choosing between two lives where the mothers life is more important.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:08 pm | Report abuse |
      • profart

        My apologies. Your post actually reads: " but no one would argue that the plant was alive before it was plucked." Apparently it is a typographical error.

        I would like to see the source of your "less than 1%" stat. It is not my experience, but that is, of course, anecdotal. Even so, the vast majority of the women I know who have had this decision were making a major medical decision, due to issues of complications and histories of complications, or because of major birth defects that were not survivable.

        Increased education and contraception availability decreases situations where abortions would be considered- in a way, that is also an abortion; ending the pregnancy before it even begins.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:27 pm | Report abuse |
  5. tluv0

    Good thing my wife is used to 10 inches.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:46 pm | Report abuse |
    • howdareI

      Now that's funny, i don't care who you are....

      March 13, 2012 at 9:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • AntiPalinAlaskan

      Wow...you must have one MACHO pizza guy!

      March 13, 2012 at 10:06 pm | Report abuse |
  6. KIRK

    ou people who are for the murdering of children don't you dare say anything about Hitler
    your argument that it legal is folly WHAT HITLER DID in his country was legal
    AND WE MAKE HIM LOOK LIKE MOTHER TERESA
    WE HAVE MURDERED MANY TIMES HIS ENTIRE TOTAL
    OURS LIKE HIS IS SLAUGHTER OF THE UNWANTED
    BUT WE ARE WORSE WE KILL THOSE WHO CANNOT FIGHT BACK
    he would have loved us and been proud and said damn why didn't i think of that

    March 13, 2012 at 9:46 pm | Report abuse |
    • Drew

      This isn't about abortion. Abortion is already legal. This is about a complete lack of regard for women

      March 13, 2012 at 9:48 pm | Report abuse |
      • Hansel

        No, it's about complete lack of regard for human life. You are so outraged that a woman has to go through some discomfort, but you don't care that an innocent child is being killed? Wake up.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:51 pm | Report abuse |
      • howdareI

        how so?

        March 13, 2012 at 9:53 pm | Report abuse |
      • Drew

        I'm outraged because the "discomfort" (rape) is entirely unnecessary medically

        March 13, 2012 at 9:55 pm | Report abuse |
      • Scott

        Legal smegal. Maybe you missed the part that what Hitler did was legal. So yeah, it is about abortion.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:57 pm | Report abuse |
      • Drew

        Scott, civilized society doesn't function without laws

        March 13, 2012 at 9:58 pm | Report abuse |
      • God's-Girl

        Drew:
        Yes, this IS about abortion. Sure it may be legal right now. But does that necessarily make it right? Slavery was once legal. But it was never right.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:16 pm | Report abuse |
    • Observer

      Serious question: are you pro-choice or anti-choice?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:48 pm | Report abuse |
    • KIRK

      you all friggin insane why not send the babies to Joseph kony at least there they could shoot back at you

      March 13, 2012 at 9:48 pm | Report abuse |
  7. iLiveInTheSouthButDon'tKnowTheseCrazies

    Folks, there is good news in all of this...for those who minds are changed by this disgraceful treatment, their baby gets a free "I survived an abortion and all I got was this lousy t-shirt!" consolation prize. Unfortunately, the shirt will be treated as badly as these unwanted babies, so neither one really stands a chance.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:46 pm | Report abuse |
    • sean green

      I saw one of those on a guy at a coffee shop once. he explained his mother tried to abort him and failed and now they are both pro life. Nice guy.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:49 pm | Report abuse |
  8. torqueflite

    Beautifully stated, Ms. Simpson. I wonder how male legislators would feel if their backsides were so violated by their state governments.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:45 pm | Report abuse |
  9. COMMISSIONG

    I think we need to put a cattle prod up the equivalent structure of all those who enacted the Texas law. Let's start with good ole boy Rick Perry. He won't mind if it's in the name of saving babies, right?

    March 13, 2012 at 9:45 pm | Report abuse |
  10. Omgami

    I always thought that if the zygote wants to live, then live, but not in my body. Perhaps the day will come when those unwanted zygotes could be saved and implanted in another human body, like a male body for example.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:44 pm | Report abuse |
  11. sean green

    How many abortions are cases of rape and incest? You read this and you'd think it's like 50%. In reality police reports would suggest it's a lot lower. What if we made an exception for that? That wouldn't stop the complaints. The simple fact is proponents view abortion as a form of contraceptive.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:43 pm | Report abuse |
    • Observer

      Are you pro-choice or anti-choice?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:44 pm | Report abuse |
      • sean green

        I'm pro discussion. Whatever you are you should always reexamine and reason it out. You might change your mind some day. I did.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:45 pm | Report abuse |
    • Tracy

      No... We believe contraception is contraception... also under fire.... People get abortions for their own reasons....Which have nothing whatsoever to do with you or your opinion.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:48 pm | Report abuse |
    • CommonSense

      "abortion as a form of contraceptive" is a contradiction of terms and makes no sense. Please look up contraceptive.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:56 pm | Report abuse |
      • Scott

        Unfortunately, your name doesn't fit you. Is abortion a contraceptive? No, not in the purest sense of the word. That's not the point thought. The point is abortion is often used to kill unwanted babies. So yeah, it's a form of contraception.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:03 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ollie

      Contraception? The decision to abort is the hardest, most stressful, most incredibly heart-rending decision a woman can make. I know of No Woman who considers this her "contraception ". It is a more difficult to do once than ANY man can imagine. All I hear in this so called discussion is judgement of those who insist that this remain an available and safe procedure – as horrible as the recent Rush Limbaugh tirade.

      There is more energy expended flinging dirt in this conversation than EVER expended to protect and nurture children who are born and then subjected to horrific life conditions.

      March 13, 2012 at 10:11 pm | Report abuse |
    • profart

      And how many are done for ectopic pregnancy, unsurvivable birth defect, severe complications, etc. etc. etc.? This is a decision that is between a woman and her DOCTOR. All the women I know who have terminate pregnancy after implantation have done so because of other health complications for themselves or with the baby, because contraception efforts can fail- even for us old married folks. Did you think we hit 40 and became celibate?

      March 13, 2012 at 10:53 pm | Report abuse |
  12. GrouchyKat

    It's obvious that the author and the Doonsbury strip artist have never been raped. The difference between deciding to take your child's life and having your legs forced apart while someone forces themselves inside you is huge.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:42 pm | Report abuse |
    • William

      two wrongs don't make a right ... though i do sympathize with you, just not on killing unborn babies.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • Tracy

      Being told that in order to terminate a pregnancy that your body can't handle (perhaps even risking the death of the mother) without being penetrated for no real medical reason other than male whim...is equivalent to rape.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:51 pm | Report abuse |
      • sean green

        and fur is murder, you know the excuse could be made this helps determine the position of the fetus when you put the forceps in and try to grab it making the procedure less invasive.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:54 pm | Report abuse |
      • Tracy

        WHat? Seriously... WHat are you babbling about.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:57 pm | Report abuse |
  13. BMW57

    Rights are confierred on birth. The concept of the rights of the unborn is an oxymoron.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:37 pm | Report abuse |
    • BobTBuilder

      Yes, what we need are more third trimester abortions. Show those conservatives we're not afraid to kill a developing fetus.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:40 pm | Report abuse |
    • William

      clearly you have never heard a baby's heartbeat

      March 13, 2012 at 9:43 pm | Report abuse |
    • sean green

      Then why is it you can sue if someone causes a miscarriage?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:44 pm | Report abuse |
      • Hmmm

        If I have a priceless painting, and you destroy it, I can sue you. I can also destroy the painting myself with no legal consequence.

        March 14, 2012 at 7:07 pm | Report abuse |
  14. BMW57

    This is why we need a FEDERAL law banning all precursor procedures prior to termination of a first a first trimester pregnency. Stop these yahos from inserting their archaic beliefs into law.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • William

      yahoo's? protecting babies ... how dare they!

      March 13, 2012 at 9:40 pm | Report abuse |
    • howdareI

      Right, except wait, it was their archaic belief that killing a person was wrong long before it was a "law." So, let's get rid of that pesky archaic belief that it's wrong to kill off of our books, it's based on fairy tale fiction anyway. And besides, it's really only a postpartum abortion.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:49 pm | Report abuse |
  15. J R Brown

    Unless someone is holding a gun to a woman's head and making her go to get an abortion under duress, I don't see how this would qualify as "rape" in any sense. If a medical procedure requires a preliminary exam and that procedure is engaged in voluntarily by the woman, it most certainly isn't rape and comparing it to rape actually demeans those who've actually endured it.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • AntiPalinAlaskan

      It's not a meaningful answer to say "well, she doesn't HAVE to get the abortion". We settled it almost forty years ago that it can never be the state's business what a woman does in this regard...that is is solely the concern of the woman and her doctor. The matter should have been left at that, and those who opposed abortion should have left if at using VOLUNTARY persuasion to try to get women to not have abortions.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:39 pm | Report abuse |
    • Thinks2010

      Requiring the more intrusive procedure when the less intrusive external ultra-sound would normally be an option is what makes it a rape. Normally the woman would have the option of an abortion following an external ultra-sound or an abortion following an internal ultra-sound.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:40 pm | Report abuse |
      • BMW57

        Roe v. Wade said she van have a first trimester termination period, no additional tests, no wait, no interference.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:41 pm | Report abuse |
    • phk46

      The *medical procedure* *doesn't* require this exam. Only the Texas legislators do.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:40 pm | Report abuse |
      • just a conservative girl

        Sorry, but you are wrong about that, as is the author of this article. Planned Parenthood confirms that 99% of all abortions have an ultrasound done before the procedure. If the mother is only a few weeks along it is the exact same procedure. The only difference is that the screen is now turned that the mother can see it.

        For liberals that say they are working to protect women, you are doing a great disservice by comparing this to rape and scaring women for no reason. They will have to have an ultrasound anyway. If you call that rape, then you better get the police to every planned parenthood in the country and have plenty of handcuffs available as they have been committing rapes for a long time now.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:56 pm | Report abuse |
      • Tracy

        Internal ultrasound?

        March 13, 2012 at 10:00 pm | Report abuse |
    • CommonSense

      Your points are not correct:

      1. the article is about the ultrsound, not abortion
      2. this procedure is not medically required
      3. the ultrasound is not voluntary

      Therefore, your conclusion is also not correct

      March 13, 2012 at 9:43 pm | Report abuse |
    • Brian

      Junior, please explain the necessity of this "medical" procedure. It's never been necessary before, so why is it necessary now? Excuse me, it isn't necessary? Texas is just forcing women to have it? That, Junior, makes it rape.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:45 pm | Report abuse |
    • bigboxes

      An ultrasound is not a required procedure when performing an abortion. It is only required when male legislatures voted to infringe upon the rights of women. You can bet the farm that if males could get pregnant that abortion would be legal and inexpensive. Forcing a woman to undergo this elective procedure (the ultrasound) is invasive and most definitely state-sanctioned rape.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:47 pm | Report abuse |
    • DK B

      The problem with your logic is that if a woman does not want to undergo this procedure, she has no choice because law makers have forced it. Ask women how they feel about this law.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:57 pm | Report abuse |
      • Scott

        Better yet, lets ask the baby that's about to die what it thinks about this law.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:06 pm | Report abuse |
    • goddog

      Are you high? Why do you think with such a narrow mind? This procedure is NOT a required by the medical establishment. We should not be letting lawyers set medical guidelines.

      March 13, 2012 at 10:04 pm | Report abuse |
  16. BobTBuilder

    The best thing to do is to prevent all abortions and make the women have the baby. At that point they can choose if they want it or not; if they don't want it, it can be easily euthanized and the nourishment can be used as a subsidy to her food stamps.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:34 pm | Report abuse |
    • AntiPalinAlaskan

      Supporting reproductive choice is NOT comparable to that at all. And you can't assume that most women who seek abortions are "welfare queens"(face it, the welfare queen was never anything but a Reagan myth).

      You've just tipped your hand...you care nothing about "life". You just hate women, especially poor women(even though none of them have ever done anything to you).

      March 13, 2012 at 9:41 pm | Report abuse |
      • BobTBuilder

        No truthfully I just hate the poor. I don't discriminate.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:43 pm | Report abuse |
      • BobTBuilder

        All kidding aside, I'd bet a large sum of money that I've donated more money to underprivlidged charitable organizations in my life than you have. I do this because it is a personal responsiblity not a government responsibility.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:47 pm | Report abuse |
    • blah blah blah

      You're eating people!!!

      March 13, 2012 at 9:41 pm | Report abuse |
  17. wpqr

    While I support abortion rights, it is obviously not a simple question and does not lend itself to simple answers. There are many difficult questions. For example:

    Is there any point during a pregnancy when an abortion should not be permitted, such as the so-called late term or "partial birth" abortion?

    If abortion is to be permitted at any time during a pregnancy, consider this scenario: a woman goes in for a late term abortion, the doctors make a mistake, and the baby is born alive. Does the woman have a right to tell the doctors to kill the baby? It's not her fault the doctors messed up. In fact, wouldn't be safer to have the doctors induce a natural birth rather than perform the abortion, which involves the use of invasive instruments? She could then tell the doctors to take the baby into another room and kill it.

    I'm not trying to be melodramatic, and as I said, I support abortion rights, but these are questions that have to be answered.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:34 pm | Report abuse |
    • Tracy

      No once the baby is born, adoption procedures can begin... don't make a silly argument.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:43 pm | Report abuse |
      • wpqr

        I don't think this is a silly argument. If a woman pays for an abortion, she's doing it for a reason. She doesn't want a live baby (or fetus). So why shouldn't she get what she pays for?

        March 13, 2012 at 9:48 pm | Report abuse |
  18. whatyoudontknow

    If a womans body is her own business, then why should birth control coverage be mandated by government regulation?

    March 13, 2012 at 9:32 pm | Report abuse |
    • Marine57

      When a woman is carrying a baby, her body is no longer her business – there are now two people to consider.
      Her body should be dedicated to caring for the baby.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:35 pm | Report abuse |
      • Observer

        Ift there are two people involved and the second one dies in a miscarriage, that should be investigated as a possible homicide, right?

        If the second person is born with birth defects, that also should be investigated as possible child abuse, right?

        March 13, 2012 at 9:40 pm | Report abuse |
      • bonobo

        You have no right to tell somewhat what to do with their own body. That body is the woman's, and only hers. It's disgusting to think that you would force a woman to do what YOU think is best. She is the final arbiter of her own biology. Not you or your bronze-age con men.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:54 pm | Report abuse |
      • Marine57

        Observer...
        It would be good for you to take a college course in Logic, another in Argumentation and Debate, and another in Law.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • sosume

      A woman is not mandated to use the coverage. It is her own business whether or not to use it.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:40 pm | Report abuse |
    • bonobo

      Because the mandate is to stop religious extremists from selectively choosing what kinds of health care other people can receive. If you have a problem with contraception, don't use it. But in this country most employed people are covered by their job's health plan. I'd rather not have my boss be able to tell my insurance company what specific procedures it deems amoral, and therefore shouldn't be available to me. I'm guessing this is over your head because your feeding from the Red State / Limbaugh trough. It's funny how you probably support "freedom"...except for anyone that doesn't remind you of yourself.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:47 pm | Report abuse |
      • Marine57

        bonobo...
        What if you are the unwanted baby that is to be aborted?

        March 13, 2012 at 9:58 pm | Report abuse |
      • whatyoudontknow

        Where to start, first off, I think you mean immoral, amoral means without morals, secondly, wouldnt forcing someone else to pay for her birth control make her body my business, thirdly, if you want to pay for birth control, go buy condoms or pills with your money and distribute them, or does responsibility just mean someone who isnt you should pony up

        March 13, 2012 at 10:10 pm | Report abuse |
      • Tracy

        Its health insurance.... If you wan that kidney you should pay for it??? That is what health insurance is for... paying premiums to cover your healthcare needs...If money is your issue...you should be thrilled considering that the cost of pre and post natal care is actually more costly...

        March 14, 2012 at 12:46 am | Report abuse |
  19. AntiPalinAlaskan

    Texas should be ashamed of this law. They have no right to impose all this on a woman and her doctor.
    Rape is rape...even if its with a medical instrument.
    Why wasn't it enough for them to have the "Operation Rescue" crazies outside the clinic.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:30 pm | Report abuse |
    • DBSM

      Smart folks in Texas ARE ashamed of this.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:39 pm | Report abuse |
      • AntiPalinAlaskan

        Are there enough people there angry about this to take control of the Legislature AWAY from these megachurch imams this year?

        The GOP majority in the Texas Legislature represents the horrifying consequences of what happens when too much testosterone builds up in a confined space.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:44 pm | Report abuse |
  20. Mike

    I'm a self described Conservative. I'm also a Pro-Life advocate. But this is one law where I simply cannot agree with Texas on.
    You can't force this issue. If you want to really bring down the abortion rate you need to do it with education and prevention.
    As someone who is willing to put their money where their mouth is I have no problem paying a few extra dollars in taxes (I'd rather they re-allocate what I already give them which is more than enough in my opinion) to extend programs to simply prevent unwanted pregnancies or to find good homes for these babies to be adopted into.
    I would love to have a second child but my wife and I have been simply unable so I would love to adopt a child. The problem is that adoption agencies are nothing more than legal baby sellers getting rich off those who can't conceive at the expense of those who don't want the child.
    I'd rather pay the mother directly for her medical bills and costs associated with having a child than to pay several thousand to an agency that cares little to nothing about children and is in it only for the money.
    If you disagree then please explain why it should cost $30-$40K to adopt a child?

    March 13, 2012 at 9:28 pm | Report abuse |
    • Tracy

      You seem like a reasonable guy... a disappearing breed in the conservative front these days....... But when we women see conservatives...This invasive insanity is what we get served... Deep in my heart I know this is a red herring...to keep us from complaining about the Government's other money making schemes...But it doesn't matter these laws are very real and affect our lives... we have to fight this.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:37 pm | Report abuse |
    • R Calling

      Sensible people like you are few and far between.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:38 pm | Report abuse |
    • KC

      Good for you Mike! Keep trying to adopt, you would make a huge difference in the child's life.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:42 pm | Report abuse |
  21. Kyle

    10"....really? Wow.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:26 pm | Report abuse |
    • DanBun

      Well, usually only about 6-8 inches are actually inserted.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:35 pm | Report abuse |
  22. BRod

    If you do not have a uterus – STFU! You are out of your element.
    Furthermore if the zygote whose fate is in question is NOT in YOUR uterus, STFU – its fate not your business.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:24 pm | Report abuse |
    • dbcooper

      Abort thyself

      March 13, 2012 at 9:26 pm | Report abuse |
      • DBSM

        Exactly what will happen to avoid this law.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:43 pm | Report abuse |
      • AntiPalinAlaskan

        Know thyself(in the Biblical sense).

        March 13, 2012 at 9:45 pm | Report abuse |
    • whatyoudontknow

      If im footing the bill, ill say what I please

      March 13, 2012 at 9:34 pm | Report abuse |
      • bonobo

        You, nor any other taxpayer, is "footing the bill". It's amazing that you spend time on the internet being a nasty woman-hater, but yet do not do the bare minimum of opposition research. The whole issue your serving up is a lie. There never was a mandate for "taxpayer funded" anything. Don't believe me, try doing a google search, idiot.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:57 pm | Report abuse |
    • DanBun

      I am not Black; don't I still have a right, if not a responsibility, to speak up for the rights of those who are? Are you advocating a LACK of political involvement? Or only if we happen to not agree with you?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:36 pm | Report abuse |
  23. clarke

    We can disagree on this until Hill freezes over. Right, wrong or indifferent,we are not all going to feel the same when it comes to anything having to do with babies. For myself I feel they are a gift, but not all people feel that way. I can only control how and what I feel for I am the master of my own ship.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:24 pm | Report abuse |
    • Marine57

      You make a good point, clarke, however,
      I am not the master of my ship, the Lord Jesus Christ is...

      March 13, 2012 at 9:30 pm | Report abuse |
      • AntiPalinAlaskan

        The Lord Jesus Christ would not be down with this shp(or something like that).

        March 13, 2012 at 9:32 pm | Report abuse |
      • BMW57

        I am he master of my ship thank you. No invisible friend in the sky.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:32 pm | Report abuse |
      • Anvil of Reality

        You do actively drive your own car though, right? I mean a ship is one thing, but a car...

        March 13, 2012 at 9:35 pm | Report abuse |
      • DanBun

        Perhaps he is the master of your ship; but not all believe in him, nor accept him. This is part of our freedom of religion; we all get to choose our own faith.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:38 pm | Report abuse |
  24. Gene

    Actually, the Doonesbury strip gives Loony Tunes a run for it's money. Comparing a voluntary medical procedure to rape? Get over yourselves.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:24 pm | Report abuse |
    • BRod

      *facepalm* It is NOT a voluntary procedure! That's the whole point! D:

      March 13, 2012 at 9:26 pm | Report abuse |
    • Gene

      Abortion is a voluntary procedure. Duh.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:27 pm | Report abuse |
      • CommonSense

        The article isn't about abortion, it's about the ultrasound. Did you read the article?

        March 13, 2012 at 9:37 pm | Report abuse |
      • Tracy

        Honey, You are full of it..... if you men were the one who could get pregnant, My taxes would not only be paying for the Abortion...but after care and emotional counseling to make sure you had no negative feelings...

        March 13, 2012 at 9:41 pm | Report abuse |
      • Alex

        A requirement of an unnecessary proceedure mandated by elected officials with no medical background is hardly voluntary. There is no medical necessity for this proceedure to have an abortion it is only the Texas government that makes it so.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:22 pm | Report abuse |
    • Observer

      Voluntary?

      Did you actually read the article? Get over yourself.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:27 pm | Report abuse |
    • AustinIsFull

      hmmm...Some strange man shoving something inside you without your consent...that's rape....

      March 13, 2012 at 9:30 pm | Report abuse |
    • str8whtguy

      It's not voluntary. That's the problem.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:31 pm | Report abuse |
    • BMW57

      Not volunary, mandated by state law in order to obtain a legal procedure.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:33 pm | Report abuse |
    • Drew

      The problem is that it is entirely unnecessary to the actual procedure

      March 13, 2012 at 9:34 pm | Report abuse |
    • CommonSense

      According to the article, it is not a voluntary procedure

      March 13, 2012 at 9:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • Gene

      Again, for the literacy challenged: again, an abortion is voluntary. If you think it is too invasive, don't have one. Duh.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:39 pm | Report abuse |
    • DanBun

      Abortion IS voluntary. But an invasive ultrasound is being FORCED onto people, mostly in a guilt-trip tactic. A 24 hour waiting period makes some sense; forcing a woman to do something against her will is wrong.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:39 pm | Report abuse |
      • Gene

        (Sigh) Again, if you think it is too invasive, don't have an abortion. If you think this is rape, you're a couple of french fries short of a happy mean.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:42 pm | Report abuse |
      • Drew

        And Gene again, this ultrasound is completely incidental to the abortion. You act as though it is an all or nothing thing, which is entirely false. This is shameless emotional manipulation

        March 13, 2012 at 9:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • mingo

      You're quite the moron!

      March 13, 2012 at 9:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • Reb

      It's easy to shame. There's no real commitment to that. Show up. Hold a few signs. Make a prayer circle. Vote for intrusive sonograms.

      And the pro-lifers certainly aren't running out to foster some of these children they are "shaming" people to have that end up neglected and unwanted. THAT is much more shameful.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:45 pm | Report abuse |
    • bonobo

      It must suck to hate women as much as you do. Why do you loathe them? Did they spur your feeble advances when you were in middle school?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:59 pm | Report abuse |
  25. Andy

    The United State of Iran!

    Forget West Virginia and Arkansas, Texas leads the mouthbreathing pack.

    What's next? Perhaps, a woman who is found to use contraception is given a last BBQ dinner, taken out behind the pickup and ritually stoned by the male members of her family.

    Are we sure Limbaugh is from Missouri and not the Lone Star State?

    March 13, 2012 at 9:23 pm | Report abuse |
  26. dreamer96

    I'm waiting for Gary Larson to do a Far Side Cartoon..

    March 13, 2012 at 9:22 pm | Report abuse |
  27. hypocrisy2theextreme

    I can't believe that the party who always complains about government intrusion into your private affairs and decisions (heaven forbid we force people to pay for the healthcare they inevitably will consume, or lock up their guns so kids won't take them to school to kill other kids- its our right to do what we want!) can with a straight face pass a law that allows the government to put a 10" rod in your wahoo... Maybe we should mandate a trans-rectal prostate ultrasound and 24 hours to think about it before anyone in the Texas Legislature is allowed to pass any new laws...

    March 13, 2012 at 9:21 pm | Report abuse |
    • DanBun

      Pro-lifers typically support the death penalty....
      Of course, those who are opposed to capital punishment often support abortion.
      If you are looking for consistentcy, politics isn't usually a good place to find it.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:28 pm | Report abuse |
      • Graham Krueger

        I support a woman's right to choose, and oppose capital punishment on principle. I really see a meaningful difference, and a consistent principle-the government should not have control over people's bodies even for medical procedures, let alone life-and-death decisions. For abortion, one is measuring the ambiguous rights of what will one day be a human being against the established rights of an actual, current, human being. When you consider how essential controlling reproductive health is to women's empowerment, my support strengthens yet further.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:36 pm | Report abuse |
  28. smartaz

    Yeah, love a good abortion joke.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:21 pm | Report abuse |
    • SodaPop

      Yeah, you have to be careful with a woman's reproductive organs. She she may actually want to have a child some day, so don't stick a 10 inch wand in there, just put some forceps in there and yank the child out piece by piece. It would be just awful if she was made to feel guilty about killing a living being. Of course many women DO feel guilty afterward. Many women find it hard to live with themselves after the procedure, but let's ignore that as well.

      It may be perfectly legal to pluck a plant from the ground, dry it, and smoke it, but no one would argue that the plant was alive before it was plucked.

      Also abortions hurt your reproductive organs worse than any wand would, as they cause scar tissue.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:41 pm | Report abuse |
  29. Drew

    This isn't really about abortion; its about whether women should be unnecessarily violated in a procedure that is as of now perfectly legal.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:17 pm | Report abuse |
  30. Jess

    Woo-hoo> Another inch for the foot in the door for the Christian Taliban!

    March 13, 2012 at 9:12 pm | Report abuse |
    • DanBun

      Almost ten inches, actually.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:15 pm | Report abuse |
      • Anvil of Reality

        ...and it's not in the door.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:16 pm | Report abuse |
  31. inewt

    Next they will make it illegal for doctors to purchase 10" ultrasound shaming wands. Then since no doctor will be able to provide the requisite ultrasound, they will not be able to perform the abortion procedure.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:12 pm | Report abuse |
    • dudereally

      This is brilliant actually. You should work for the pope, I think he'll like your ideas.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:32 pm | Report abuse |
  32. meeche

    Just curious and be honest, how many posters here are women? And how many in one of these states?? It's obvious they are not voting, at least in these states, so I can't believe they are here posting either.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:11 pm | Report abuse |
    • crbrianb

      Then why is the article even here? According to your logic, this subject shouldn't even be discussed outside of Texas.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:13 pm | Report abuse |
      • sqeptiq

        You can't really call that "logic."

        March 13, 2012 at 9:21 pm | Report abuse |
    • Thinks2010

      Maybe if the press in their states didn't censor this kind of information (as they did with the Doonesbury cartoon) women would be better informed and more likely to vote against this type of thing and the people who propose it.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:18 pm | Report abuse |
      • bonobo

        hear, hear

        March 13, 2012 at 10:01 pm | Report abuse |
    • AustinIsFull

      I am female and I am in Austin and I don't remember ever voting for this. It was slipped in under our noses. It's Perry and his money power buddys getting paid. Unless this is blasted in the media, they keep it nice and quiet until it passes. I'm ashamed of my home state.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:35 pm | Report abuse |
  33. crbrianb

    Every welfare momma I know walks around with ultra sound pictures she got for free. Our insurance didn't consider it a neccesity so we didn't get that little ultrasound picture to show off. These same women that are screaming that it is akin to rape will turn around and get an ultrasound if they want to keep the baby. What's the differenc that makes it rape?

    March 13, 2012 at 9:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • Thinks2010

      The ultra-sounds you are referring to are done by running an ultra-sound wand over the exterior of the woman's stomach and it is a voluntary procedure. The Texas law mandates that a ten-inch wand be inserted into the woman (then moved around inside her). It denies the woman informed consent or the choice of the less invasive external ultra-sound.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:15 pm | Report abuse |
      • DanBun

        Or the right to refuse ANY ultrasound.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:19 pm | Report abuse |
      • crbrianb

        Our second child was deemed a risk and we got the ultra sound and I held my wife's hand while she had that wand inserted. A couple years later, and she was having female problems, and I again got to hold her hand while that wand was inserted. Using your own logic, and the logic of this article, this standard medical procedures are akin to rape. Let's just stop ultra sounds all together, because the procedure that you need just might involve that wand.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:20 pm | Report abuse |
      • Thinks2010

        @crbrianb–The difference between what your wife experienced and this Texas law (and laws like it) is consent. It is the lack of consent that makes it rape.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:24 pm | Report abuse |
    • Howard

      You dimwit! The ultrasound that produces those pictures is conducted by holding a smooth probe against the outside of the woman's belly.

      My god, I can't believe there are people still this stupid!

      March 13, 2012 at 9:15 pm | Report abuse |
      • BMW57

        Can't believe there are that stuoid? It is Texas.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:29 pm | Report abuse |
    • Inglourious

      What's the difference? Insertion vs. the transducer being applied externally.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:16 pm | Report abuse |
      • DanBun

        How's this: a carrot lying on your belly, vs. a carrot stuck up one's waste exit.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:42 pm | Report abuse |
    • TerryKeelan

      The difference is consent. The difference is between asking for an ultrasound and having one forced on you. It would be like going to the doctor for a vasectomy and the government telling you that you need to have a rectal sonogram first, then go home and watch the video and come back tomorrow.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:22 pm | Report abuse |
    • pensimmon

      You get the little picture from a non-invasive painless ultrasound done at 4 months. The wand just gently slides over the belly. This new procedure is dreadful- done much earlier when the fetus can't be seen in the normal way.
      Imagine a poor young woman who's been already been raped or a victim of incest being forced to submit to this cruelty. Or indeed a woman who's life is in danger being forced to undergo this. Are these people that are requiring this human? They certainly have no humanity or a shred of kindness.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:23 pm | Report abuse |
    • what?

      Every welfare mama you know? Why are people you know who are on welfare having kids?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:25 pm | Report abuse |
    • AustinIsFull

      What makes it rape? Some unknown person shoving something in you without your consent. Decided by a bunch of other unknown people you have never met who think you are too stupid to make your own decisions.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:38 pm | Report abuse |
    • phk46

      crbrianb – how many welfare mommas do you know???

      (I'll bet its none.)

      March 13, 2012 at 9:50 pm | Report abuse |
  34. Michael Siever

    How about we make all of these states who have passed this abortion law require all men seeking treatment for erectile dysfunction have a prostate exam conducted first. You know, better safe than sorry!

    March 13, 2012 at 9:09 pm | Report abuse |
    • AustinIsFull

      Better yet, lets make it mandatory that all young males have a vascetomy and when they are responsible enough to take care and love a child, then they can have it reversed. I'd pay extra taxes for that one.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:40 pm | Report abuse |
  35. BobTBuilder

    I think we should go back to the days of Sparta where they threw babies with deformities off a cliff. They aren't going to remember it anyway.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:07 pm | Report abuse |
    • BobTBuilder

      In fact, you could probably kill them up to about 2 years. They probably wouldn't have any real conscious memories of it.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:10 pm | Report abuse |
      • BobTBuilder

        That would be the ultra liberal birth control

        March 13, 2012 at 9:11 pm | Report abuse |
      • Anvil of Reality

        I can say that -without a shadow of a doubt- if you kill -anyone- they will not have a memory of it.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:12 pm | Report abuse |
      • Mattmchugh

        Baptize 'em all first and they'll go straight to heaven for all eternity. We'd be doing them a huge favor. And, because we're doing it for the right reason - i.e., the salvation of their immortal souls - we'd be committing no sin.

        Find me a flaw in that logic. Go ahead... I'll wait.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:15 pm | Report abuse |
      • inewt

        I like it, at least for conservative's babies. Pretty sure they won't be remembering it even if you do it retroactively at age 45.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:15 pm | Report abuse |
      • BobTBuilder

        Yeah it goes with the liberal docterine of: I'll do whatever I want and I don't want to pay for any of the consequences.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:19 pm | Report abuse |
      • AB

        Mattmchugh – well said

        I am waiting for answers too !!

        March 13, 2012 at 9:22 pm | Report abuse |
      • BobTBuilder

        @Mattmchugh

        Yes that is a wonderful argument.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:23 pm | Report abuse |
      • TerryKeelan

        As compared to the conservative doctrine of just do what we tell you to and shut up about it.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:30 pm | Report abuse |
  36. Thinks2010

    There are currently bills being considered in Arizona, Kansas and Oklahoma that would allow a doctor who discovers that the fetus will be born with a devastating condition not to tell the parents if he (the doctor) does not believe in abortion. So now, ladies and gentleman, the radical right is permitting doctors to lie about medical conditions, the results of blood tests, ultra-sounds, cvs and amnios to their patients. So, men, this "let the doctor lie" law will have an impact on your lives, not just the woman's.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:06 pm | Report abuse |
    • AustinIsFull

      Wow...That's messed up.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:45 pm | Report abuse |
  37. dudereally

    Life isn't really all that miraculous. Get over it.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:04 pm | Report abuse |
    • Robrob

      Well, to be fair Republicans only consider it "miraculous" before it's born. After, you are on your own.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:07 pm | Report abuse |
      • dudereally

        I am a republican. You should channel your hate towards the proper group, religious folks. They're a crazy bunch.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:12 pm | Report abuse |
      • inewt

        Dude is right. Speaks much wisdom with few words.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:17 pm | Report abuse |
      • sqeptiq

        dudereally, when you act to support evil, you are evil. Where's the republican who is not supporting these american taliban?

        March 13, 2012 at 9:25 pm | Report abuse |
      • dudereally

        His name is Dr. Ron Paul. The only supporter, on either side of the aisle, who supports individuals' rights. Learn up.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:44 pm | Report abuse |
  38. Carnelian

    I'm a Texas man, and I am not in favor of this new law. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE quit lumping all men together with sweeping statements like "'Women used to proudly herald, “We’ve come a long way, baby.”' But now it looks like we’ve hit a brick wall and men are starting to take back some of the mileage we fought so hard to gain." Men are not taking back your hard-earned rights; Republicans are. Many Republicans, by the way, are women. When you make this a Woman vs. Men issue, everybody loses. Both genders must work together on this.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:04 pm | Report abuse |
    • BMW57

      Where is your outrage and public demand for the recall of this Texas Taliban you have in the state house. At least we have been spared the horror of this zealot in the WH.

      If you are not against him you are for him, no abstaining on this one.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:40 pm | Report abuse |
  39. Kepster

    Hey, if we can't kill children when we feel like it what can we do?

    March 13, 2012 at 9:03 pm | Report abuse |
    • Observer

      You really don't know the difference do you?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:05 pm | Report abuse |
      • Dave

        there isn't one

        March 13, 2012 at 9:13 pm | Report abuse |
    • IamEqual

      We can always spare the children, give birth to them, raise them for 18 years, and then send them off to death for our freedom.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:12 pm | Report abuse |
  40. Dean

    Explain to an unborn child who is about to have their life taken in horrific pain "Well little one, we don't want to have to
    'demeans, demoralizes, and may even damage the reproductive organs of women'. OK, are you serious Carole! Are you that cold that you would turn your back on the realities of abortion in order to protect the 'morale' of a reproductive organ? Organs don't have a conscience, as apparently you don't. This is sick. You care nothing about the unborn child, you are as blind as your liberal friends here. Organs aren't demeaned, they have no feelings. To give a woman information is what YOUR side always claims to be about, and now you don't want an expectant mother to understand what her choice involves? It seems to me that pro-choice no longer applies here, you are pro-abortion because you don't want her to have an educated choice. You want her to run in eyes closed and then risk having this mother regret her decision the rest of her life, WHICH SO MANY HAVE. I'm sick of every one of you heartless murderers who keeps stabbing the backs of the most innocent and fully alive beings on the planet. Do you have children? Would you be willing to 'inserts a 10-inch sonogram' in order to see the life you were carrying and offer it a future of love and care? Here is science, waiting to help you out, and you reject it because it might 'demean' your reproductive organ. Got news for you Carole, abortions do WAY MORE HARM to mothers than the 10-inch sonogram. This is just sick.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:02 pm | Report abuse |
    • Inglourious

      How do you explain anything to a fetus?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:03 pm | Report abuse |
      • Anvil of Reality

        The same way you explain things to an evangelical?

        March 13, 2012 at 9:09 pm | Report abuse |
    • Jen

      A five week embryo can not feel pain. There is no brain. I know. I'm five weeks pregnant. With an EMBRYO. NOT A BABY!!!!

      March 13, 2012 at 9:06 pm | Report abuse |
      • Dean

        Deep in your uterus your embryo is growing at a furious pace. At this point, he's about the size of a sesame seed, and he looks more like a tiny tadpole than a human. He's now made up of three layers — the ectoderm, the mesoderm, and the endoderm — which will later form all of his organs and tissues.

        The neural tube — from which your baby's brain, spinal cord, nerves, and backbone will sprout — is starting to develop in the top layer, called the ectoderm. This layer will also give rise to his skin, hair, nails, mammary and sweat glands, and tooth enamel.

        His heart and circulatory system begin to form in the middle layer, or mesoderm. (This week, in fact, his tiny heart begins to divide into chambers and beat and pump blood.) The mesoderm will also form your baby's muscles, cartilage, bone, and subcutaneous (under skin) tissue.

        The third layer, or endoderm, will house his lungs, intestines, and rudimentary urinary system, as well as his thyroid, liver, and pancreas. In the meantime, the primitive placenta and umbilical cord, which deliver nourishment and oxygen to your baby, are already on the job.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:10 pm | Report abuse |
      • ThsIsNotReal22

        Wow, dehumanizing your kid already. Glad you're not my mom.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:13 pm | Report abuse |
      • Inglourious

        @Dean: what you just described is not, in a medical sense, a human being. No human organs, no human thought. It is indeed human tissue (what else could it be?), but it is not a human being.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:13 pm | Report abuse |
      • IamEqual

        According to Dean, your child sounds like it has about the same conscience as a plant. I guess I should stop eating salads too.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:14 pm | Report abuse |
      • inewt

        we should call them (fetuses) what they really are; tumors. It will take a minimum of 18 years to discover if it was benign or malignant.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:20 pm | Report abuse |
      • Jen

        This is my third pregnancy so I know more about pregnancy than you ever will. So why are you talking to me like you know something I don't???? You are so unintelligent it astounds me. Do you know what severe debilitating morning sickness feels like??? Nope. Never will. Do you know what almost bleeding out while delivering feels like? Nope. Do you know what it feels like risking your life having a c section? Nope. So shut up. You will never know and you have no say!

        March 13, 2012 at 9:20 pm | Report abuse |
      • ThsIsNotReal22

        Actually I do have a say. In a democracy, we all get to vote on the laws.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:23 pm | Report abuse |
      • Dean

        Oh Jen, I'll assume you had the first two children and at least understand the beauty of life and that you and I were both given life and your third child will be a blessing to you if you hang in there. Really, my best to you and your husband as well.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:29 pm | Report abuse |
      • Jeff 2234

        Jen: At what point is your baby a person? I'm truly interested in your answer - I agree that having been pregnant gives you a deeper personal knowledge about this than I will ever have. But, I would imagine that at some point during the experience, your fetus becomes your baby. When is that? Surely it isn't only on the day the baby is born? I know my wife didn't feel that way about our babies.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:38 pm | Report abuse |
      • Jen

        Well thanks Dean. I love my children more than anything and am looking forward to this one as well. However not everyone has these bright glowing pregnancies as pictured on tv. There are many risks. My cousin had pre-eclampsya (sp?) in her second trimester. I firmly believe it was her decision between her life and the baby. Nobody should get to make that decision but her (and when she went unconscious I would hope the doctors would not hesitate to save her life over the fetus). Life is not black and white. Abortion should be avoided whenever possible. But as a woman I should have a right to decide what risks I want to take with my body.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:41 pm | Report abuse |
      • Jen

        Well honestly Jeff I personally consider my little embryo to be a baby already. I also personally don't believe in abortion past the point of viability outside the womb (except for when the mother's life is in danger of course). However, I recognize that my opinion is not shared by everyone. I have not walked in the shoes of a rape victim, incest, etc. Therefore I would not force my opinion on others. I have all of the emotional and financial support I need – I am fortunate – others are not. I have no problem with people that are pro life. I understand it. But you can't force your views on others.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:54 pm | Report abuse |
      • Dean

        Jen, Jeff is right on. If all three of us were having coffee we'd all be rejoicing in our children, I have 3 of them. But he is right to say that it didn't just happen at week 6 or week 14, the life was there from day 1, we can't be prejiduce based on size or gestation, if God created a child to go through this wonderful 9 month experience, growing and connecting with their mom. And one day there dad too, that is love, and God designed it all that way. Again, blessings.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:55 pm | Report abuse |
      • BMW57

        Breaking news for all of you who do not wish to undergo an abortion, you do not have to. You also may not prevent another woman from having this procedure.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:01 pm | Report abuse |
    • Wow - insane

      It is possible to be informed to the degree you specify without the penetrating ultrasound. The patient could be given a pamphlet, for example, or a DVD to watch at home which interviews cogent voices on the subject. All of that should – as the completely missed point – be optional. If the woman wants to go in blind, eyes closed, as you say, that's not your business.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:11 pm | Report abuse |
      • Dean

        At least a reasonable response. Its a good point, but to argue the merits of a pamphlet over a sonogram of your own child is a conversation I'm sure that was had down in Texas. And it is all of our business, especially come November.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:17 pm | Report abuse |
    • Lee

      The fetus is part of the woman's body only she gets to decide its fate no man no government. In the end she answers to God no man no government only God. Keep your laws off my body its mine to control not your laws.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:15 pm | Report abuse |
      • Dean

        Spoken like a true abortionist. The question no abortionist can answer "What about the rights of the unborn child". Always answered with another question. The greatest hypocrisy of all time.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:20 pm | Report abuse |
    • David Johnston

      When you are in a position to have this done to you, then you can talk, otherwise, shut up you idiot.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:17 pm | Report abuse |
      • Dean

        I'll defend the rights of innocent children regardless of your small minded ideas. "Ah, you aren't a woman and so , uh. you got nothing to say about it." Defend the defenseless.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:24 pm | Report abuse |
    • Herb

      If you want the woman to have more information, maybe just pass a law requiring them to go to the library and read some books? Then maybe we could extend the law to force YOU to go to a library and read as well – practice might help your comprehension. Ms. Simpson was talking about dehumanizing WOMEN, not their organs. Kinda like how you dehumanize women in your post by focusing more on their organs than on them as people. And how you dehumanize women by assuming that they cannot make informed decisions for themselves and that you must "help them."

      March 13, 2012 at 9:36 pm | Report abuse |
    • Graham Krueger

      The root of an informed choice is the "choice" part. Forcing this on a woman has nothing to do with informing her decision, it's bullying and violating.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:40 pm | Report abuse |
    • AustinIsFull

      Oh my God, come out of your motherhood cloud. Can't you understand that not everyone believes that they should be a mother? Some people like to be in control of their lives without some God, husband or kids controling them. Some like it, you obviously, but others don't. Some were made to pop kids out and but some of us don't want to be baby making machines. Just because you feel the way you do should not dictate what others do. If you don't like abortions, then don't have one. If you would like OTHERS to stop having them, then educate and help supply birth control without making women jump thru hoops to get them. I can honestly say that every woman I know who have had one has not regreted it. They were not prepared, they were too young, they didn't have support so they made a decision. Try to realize this....Not everyone believes the same thing you do. Respect their decisions and get the heck out of their business. I have no right to tell you how many kids YOU can have..

      March 13, 2012 at 9:55 pm | Report abuse |
  41. Rob

    If Republicans do ban abortion are they ready to ensure that every child born is well fed, well clothed, well housed, even if it takes more government assistance and higher taxes?

    Or, do they just want the kid out of the womb and then if the child goes hungry, lives on the streets, etc... – well that's just the breaks?

    March 13, 2012 at 9:02 pm | Report abuse |
    • JasonThomas

      Yea Rob, let's just kill them instead! Hey, let's kill those damn gypsies too! We can't feed them! And those Mexicans! Half of them are too poor to live! Send them to the gas chamber! Sounds like a certain European country I read about in history class!

      March 13, 2012 at 9:54 pm | Report abuse |
      • AustinIsFull

        No, you just ignore them and pretend they don't exist.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:04 pm | Report abuse |
    • John

      Every life is scared till they want food, a place to live and medical care.

      March 13, 2012 at 10:27 pm | Report abuse |
  42. David

    Wow! I can't believe there's a law forcing woman to do something like that! This is the most shocking thing I've heard of in years. Texas really turned back the clock on woman's rights on this one. I'm even more shocked woman have let this happen. I'm shocked beyond words.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:02 pm | Report abuse |
    • BRod

      As with any law our government passes – we did not "let" it happen – it happened and we found out afterward and now we have to try and change it.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:19 pm | Report abuse |
  43. WASP

    1) what texas is doing is cruel to the woman. 2) a fetus isn't a person; it is human but not a person. what makes a person is your memories and experiences. fetus' are aborted daily due to natural processes of the female body. 3) think of it like this if your daughter,mother, sister or aunt gets pregnant from a rape if no choice is what we give these women then either they will risk their lives having a back alley abortion or they will be forced to carry to term that memory of being raped to term. 4) if the fetus is from incest i don't want to hear a single person cry when your taxes go up to pay for that child's care due to the fact of genetic mutations making the child not capaible of performing a natural life.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:01 pm | Report abuse |
    • dowdotica

      uh...hmm...uh, if abortion is murder what is war? and for all the evangelicals crying 'bout unborn baby dyin' why ain't they cryin' 'bout all the livin' children dyin in lands fryin neath desert suns and the soldiers we bury to supposedly keep us safe. man i think we all done and went stupid! LEAVE THE WOMEN ALONE! THIER HOO-HAA AIN'T NO ONE ELSES BUSINESS!!!!

      March 13, 2012 at 9:11 pm | Report abuse |
  44. rob

    "Selective abortions prompt call for Ultrasound rules" CBC news

    March 13, 2012 at 9:01 pm | Report abuse |
  45. ThsIsNotReal22

    If a woman is there to get an abortion, the procedure itself requires they insert intruments up into the uterus to suck the baby out. Soooo how is that different? She just gets 2 objects inserted instead of 1? One object inserted is her "inaleinable right" but two objects inserted makes it rape?

    March 13, 2012 at 9:01 pm | Report abuse |
    • jim

      Because one is voluntary, the other forced.Perhaps a hard concept for a religious pro-lifer to understand, but true none the less.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • Dan mason

      This is what government controlled health care gets you. People with no medical background mandating unnecessary and potentially risky procedures for no other purpose than scoring political points.
      Laws like this are the exact reason we need government completely out of health care, because health care should never be able to be used as a political pawn.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:12 pm | Report abuse |
    • AWC

      The difference, which I thought would have been obvious, is that one procedure is voluntary while the other is not. By analogy, it's one thing to opt to have a root canal, quite another to be forced to have a root canal.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:13 pm | Report abuse |
    • ThsIsNotReal22

      Doesn't really meet the definition of force if you can get up and leave the room whenever you want, and just go home.

      That is like saying the government forces me to take a drivers test. No I willingly take the test if I want the benefit of a driver's license. But if I opt not to drive, I never have to take the test. Sometimes certain rights come with certain requirements. This is not a new concept, its just being demagouged by the left.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:18 pm | Report abuse |
    • Abs

      An abortion administered early is little more than a pill and a heavy period. Not only is this procedure more invasive than early abortions, it delays the procedure.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:18 pm | Report abuse |
  46. Observer

    EVERYONE is "pro-Abortion" if things get horribly bad enough.

    EVERYONE is "pro-life". It just depends if that is the life of the mother or fetus.

    The "sides" are Pro-Choice and Anti-Choice. Most Pro-Choice people hate abortions, but still believe that the mother should have the ability to decide based on her individual situation.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:59 pm | Report abuse |
    • Bruce

      Absolutely. It's pro-choice vs. anti-choice. Everyone is pro life. The anti-choice people are NOT pro life

      March 13, 2012 at 9:02 pm | Report abuse |
  47. Mattmchugh

    Just curious what the Texas legislature thinks about pregnant illegal Mexican women seeking abortions? Or, for that matter, pregnant illegal Mexican women seeking to have their babies?

    March 13, 2012 at 8:58 pm | Report abuse |
  48. dbcooper

    Every single human, mammal, fish, bird, reptile, insect, plant and tree is comprised of cells.

    So, to dismiss a preborn baby as a "clump of cells" is an idiotic argument espoused by hypocrites who themselves, are comprised of the very cells they comdemn babies to die for.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:58 pm | Report abuse |
    • Anvil of Reality

      Wow, thanks for injecting some science into the discussion...

      Profound, truly.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:59 pm | Report abuse |
    • Robrob

      Very good, sounds like that High School biology is serving you well.

      Cancer is also a "clump of cells." Guess we should save that too?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:00 pm | Report abuse |
    • Booshh

      Notice how no one could deny that using the term "clump of cells" is indeed wrong?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:08 pm | Report abuse |
    • jim

      Not really. A full tern human is a clump of cells that have orgainized themnselves into an incredibly functional organism capable of thought, sense, emotion, and all the other things we consider make up being "human". A fetus is a clump of cells that will eventually differentiate into this, but at the 8 or 12 week stage it isnt even close. A difference that requires some intelligent thought and putting aside of religious views.
      If a fetus is a human, just as you are, tell me, what do you remember from when you were an 8 week fetus?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:16 pm | Report abuse |
      • dbcooper

        I never mentioned "religion", you did.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:23 pm | Report abuse |
      • Scott

        Tell me Jim, my grandfather has advanced dementia and doesn't remember anything from day to day. You could almost say he's a clump of cells with no real purpose anymore. My mother and uncle spend a lot of time caring for him, probably at the cost of their own health. Sounds to me like you are advocating they "abort" him.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:51 pm | Report abuse |
    • jim

      True, you didnt, I apologize.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:30 pm | Report abuse |
  49. ThsIsNotReal22

    The reason it's not rape is because no one comes to her house and rams it up there. She has to go to a special building and ask them to do it. Abortion is a voluntary procedure. I thought liberals were all about regulating people's voluntary procedures lol.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:58 pm | Report abuse |
    • Robrob

      No, they make it a law where she has to go down to the hospital and pay to be violated.

      Republicans are all about shame and making money. It's a "twofer!"

      March 13, 2012 at 9:01 pm | Report abuse |
    • Read Much?

      Huh? You actually say it's not rape because she has to "ask them to do it"? Do you even know what you read, let alone what you're saying? This law FORCES a woman to undergo the procedure. She's not ASKING. her RIGHT to ask is being taken AWAY.

      By the way, what does being liberal or conservative have to do with any of this? Please, just leave the Internet. Permanently.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:13 pm | Report abuse |
      • ThsIsNotReal22

        If I want a driver's license I am first "forced" to take a driver's test, whether I want to or not. Sometimes certain rights have certain requirements. If she doesn't want the wand, she doesn't have to get the abortion.

        And no, I am not going anywhere.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:21 pm | Report abuse |
  50. Patiat

    Those Texas fundamentalists sure are some mean-spirited, rotten people.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:57 pm | Report abuse |
    • David Johnston

      This and signed by a man that was running for President. Everyone who voters Republican should undergo this procedure!

      March 13, 2012 at 9:25 pm | Report abuse |
  51. Mura Saki

    The world has always elevated just about every thing and every one over 'woman'. Sure, a zygote becomes a life at some point...but that's NOT the point. Elevating what's growing inside a uterus over the woman herself is just another example of viewing women as objects (seed pods). The bottom line is and always will be, I don't HAVE to grow another being inside my body. Yes, I know men, SOME of you can't stand it (I got you pregnunt and by god y'ur gonna stay that way). The powerlessness and ensuing outrage over not being able to control the reproductive process is a sign of assumed male privilege.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:57 pm | Report abuse |
    • BRod

      Excellent post!

      March 13, 2012 at 9:01 pm | Report abuse |
    • Man

      Amen. That was an awesome post!

      March 13, 2012 at 9:21 pm | Report abuse |
  52. K Rhodes

    Garry Trudeau made this statement "The World Health Organization defines rape as ‘physically forced or otherwise coerced penetration — even if slight — of the vulva or anus, using a penis, other body parts or an object.’ You tell me the difference"

    Well what does our court consider the deliberate, planned taking of another life? Why we call that 1st degree murder...what do the dems call it....why it's "a womens right to chose." Even though the life of the child does not belong to her and the child gets no say in the matter. Pro abortion people are the most evil and vile creatures on the planet.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:55 pm | Report abuse |
    • Inglourious

      You believe a fetus to be a human life; the law does not agree with you.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:59 pm | Report abuse |
    • dudereally

      Do you support the death penalty?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:02 pm | Report abuse |
      • K Rhodes

        I think a better question would be: why don't you?

        March 14, 2012 at 9:32 am | Report abuse |
    • Robrob

      Strawman agreement, gee how novel.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:02 pm | Report abuse |
      • Pro-Life

        Get your logical fallacies right ding-dong. This is post hoc ergo propter hoc.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:19 pm | Report abuse |
      • Anvil of Reality

        @Pro Life

        "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" means "After this, therefor because of this".

        Since the two arguments are not presented as causal, you are citing the wrong logical fallacy.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:29 pm | Report abuse |
    • MrClean

      So, what you are saying is that we need to celebrate our inception date, not our birthdates, right?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:03 pm | Report abuse |
    • BMW57

      A fetus is not a child simple and direct. Despite your archaic biblical nonsense in this country a child is person and sack of cells is not.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:45 pm | Report abuse |
  53. dbcooper

    The part of liberal ideology that I love is that they decry immigration laws because "your ancestors were immigrants", so you are immoral and hypocritical if you deny others the opportunity to immigrate here.

    Yet, they and EVERY one of their ancestors was a preborn fetus, given the opportunity to enter the world and participate in Life, but they have no qualms in denying that same opportunity they and their ancestors all enjoyed.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • DanBun

      And all of our mother's chose to keep us. I am glad they made that choice! But I am also glad that they had the personal freedom TO make that choice.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:00 pm | Report abuse |
    • Anvil of Reality

      I am shocked that you are even able to operate you computer, let alone post this nonsense on the internet.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:01 pm | Report abuse |
    • Glenn

      And you conservatives are the first to want to bring these unwanted kids in the world and the first who want to cut medicaid, WIC, head start, etc. Why are you more concerned with them when they are in the womb than you are when they have their feet on the ground? How many of these million unwanted children do you plan to or have already adopted???

      March 13, 2012 at 9:11 pm | Report abuse |
      • BMW57

        We have a long wait for that I am afraid.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:43 pm | Report abuse |
  54. Breath is soul

    I personally believe that the fetus, with or without heartbeat, is not a viable person unless it has drawn breath on it's own. There are many religions that see life that way. The expression "Breath of life" means that, and the soul is not in the fetus until that happens. Likewise, stop breathing, and the soul departs. With that thought, abortion of a non-breathing collection of multiplying cells is equivalent to removing a cancerous tumor. The world is way over-populated as it is. I have always believed this, even though I am lucky enough to have never been pregnant, and never wanted to be, and would have gladly driven to any state that allowed abortion rather than carry a fetus to full term. It's about CHOICE. You say where's the baby's choice? If it wasn't born and never breathed, it was never a baby to start with.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • DanBun

      Generally, I agree. But I also saw my daughter in utero when she was 9 months developed fetus. She was beautiful, and we named her before she was born. Let us not be so cavalier about life; in the 3rd trimester, that fetus is VERY close to being a baby. Cannot we compromise here? No abortions after the 6/7th month, unless the woman's life is at risk?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:04 pm | Report abuse |
    • Sylvia Fuoss

      I agree, and always have, with the statement that life begins at first breath. It is a collection of cells until it draws that first breath and the soul enters the body.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:05 pm | Report abuse |
    • Pro-Life

      Guess I have no soul, as I stopped breathing and was declared dead. For that matter that goes for anybody that holds their breath.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:09 pm | Report abuse |
      • David Johnston

        Yes, you have no soul.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:28 pm | Report abuse |
  55. pattyo27

    Repubs want so badly to take us back to a time where women have no rights. I think they should retake their history classes. Abortions are socially relevant for multiple reasons, these days. If you are faced with the decision to raise a child that is mentally or physically ill, do you want the child to be allowed to suffer? Also, same scenario, what if you simply cannot afford a child in need of special care? Now, referring to the history comment: Years ago, women were more likely to miscarry or lose more children than they were to have successful spawn that grew to adulthood. We have outsmarted many of these obstacles mother nature presented and now we must face the very real possibility of there being more humans than the planet can provide for. Essentially, the concept of survival of the fittest is moot in this day and age. If I find out that my child will be born with serious health issues, I could never live with myself if I put an innocent life through that. I've had the 10" ultrasound wand experience for unrelated issues...it's less than a pleasant experience...and it could be construed as rape. Perry sacrificed women's health care to pass this bill. Women of Texas need to STAND UP!

    March 13, 2012 at 8:54 pm | Report abuse |
  56. WaitforObamacare

    Oh get over it – Obamacare will force every woman to get a pap smear and every man to get a prostate check – "to save money". If you are against this then you have to be against Obamacare. The government forcing any citizen to do anything medically (accept for pandemic or epidemic emergencies) should be outlawed

    March 13, 2012 at 8:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • Robrob

      Fantasy presented as fact? Gee, how "Republican" of you.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:55 pm | Report abuse |
    • Mattmchugh

      You mean like Rick Perry and his buddies at Merk with Gardasil vaccine mandate?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:01 pm | Report abuse |
      • DanBun

        Nice!
        Of course, Gardisil (SP?) is something I got for my daughter; if we can prevent 85%+ of cervical cancers, who wouldn't get those three shots for their daughter?

        March 13, 2012 at 9:09 pm | Report abuse |
  57. Jeff 2234

    The author wants to make this out to be an issue of "men versus women." That is foolish. This isn't about views that differ based on gender. It is all about whether you believe a fetus is a person. Those who don't believe a fetus is a person think a pregnant woman should have absolutely unconstrained rights when it comes to abortion. Those who do think a fetus is a person believe abortion is murder, and should be absolutely outlawed or severely restricted. There are men and women in both camps. Claiming this dispute is part of a "gender war" is dishonest.

    For myself, I'm not sure exactly what the "right answer" is on the broad question of abortion. But, the argument that a fetus should not have any rights or should not matter at all because it can't survive outside the uterus is absurd. A newborn baby can't survive on its own either. Neither can a two-year-old, for that matter. Furthermore, a fetus that is eight months along almost certainly can survive outside the uterus. The question of when life begins, and when individual rights should come into existence is a very difficult one to answer. Saying a fetus has no rights at all until the moment of birth seems willfully ignorant, and selfish to boot. Saying individual rights exist from the moment of conception seems untenable too - after all, is every fertilized egg at a fertility clinic a full human being? Are the parents (potential parents, at least) who have half-a-dozen fertilized eggs at the clinic committing murder when one egg or two are successfully implanted, the mother bears a child, and the parents then allow the clinic to dispose of the remaining fertilized eggs? The "best" answer must be somewhere in between these two extremes. Unfortunately, this issue seems to make many into irrational extremists.

    These are difficult questions, and those who can't acknowledge the difficulties and respect the opinions of others do us all a disservice.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • Robrob

      Problem is you are asking for rational discussion when one side is dictated by a book of fables.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:57 pm | Report abuse |
    • dudereally

      This is clearly a religious issue, not a gender or beginning of life issue. It's curious that folks in Texas think god gave them the right to end the life of convicts, but a pregnant women doesn't have the right to do the same. Pro-life shouldn't only be associated with abortion. I'll bet these same hypocrites support all of our bombing campaigns and wars.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:00 pm | Report abuse |
      • DanBun

        It's also very much a Right to Privacy issue.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:11 pm | Report abuse |
    • Glenn

      There are fates worse than death. Just ask the little girl whose grandmother made her run for 3 hours until she dropped dead. Ask the children in Appalachia that have not food to eat and live in an unheated shack.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:15 pm | Report abuse |
    • phk46

      Jeff – thanks for the thoughtful comment. (There aren't a lot of them.)

      If you believe in a soul, then I suppose this is all about when the soul enters the body. Since nobody has proved there is such a thing as a soul, much less devised a way to determine when it comes and goes, that is at best to be left for religious zealots to fight over. One thing that is certain is that they won't agree. But here we are talking about laws, and so we shouldn't be using those definitions anyway.

      In an objective sense its pretty clear that there is a huge distinction between an embryo, a fetus, a newborn, and a functioning adult. And clearly there is a major distinction between the unborn and the born.

      Drawing an arbitrary time in that progression and saying before then is a non-person, and after is a person seems awfully arbitrary. In my opinion the rights (and responsibilities) of personhood should come on gradually. We already do that in many regards: you can vote at one age, drive at another age. You get treated as a minor by the coursts until you become 18.

      So, I propose that the "bar" for abortions get higher as the fetus gets older. There should be no restrictions on aborting an embryo, and there is no right to abort after birth. In between there could be stages at which better justification is required. (The details would need to be sorted out.)

      While I am very pro choice (and male) the above seems like a reasonable compromise to me.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:37 pm | Report abuse |
      • Jeff 2234

        Well, I'm more pro-life (and also male), but I think you've got the basics right. I also think the majority of Americans agree with you and with me about this.

        (Although I do disagree that there is any meaningful difference between a fetus two days before birth and a newborn baby, if you were trying to suggest that there is or should be.)

        March 13, 2012 at 9:43 pm | Report abuse |
  58. dudereally

    Religious people forcing their beliefs on others. All too common in this great country of ours. It's funny how conservatives in the US despise fundamentalist religious people in other countries, but it's ok for them to impose their beliefs on others at home. Oh the hypocrisy.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • Michael

      How dare they force their belief that murder is wrong onto other people?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:12 pm | Report abuse |
      • Glenn

        How many of the hundreds of thousands of kids currently looking for homes have you adopted Michael? How many of those unaborted babies do you plan to adopt and support?

        March 13, 2012 at 9:16 pm | Report abuse |
      • Michael

        So, it's better to murder someone because they may have a hard time than it is to give them the option to make the best out of their own lives? Most abortions are not a result of pregnancy by rape. The vast majority take place for convenience. If you don't want a baby, don't put it there. Responsibility.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:24 pm | Report abuse |
      • dudereally

        It's not murder, and your dramatic attempt at making it so is really pathetic.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:29 pm | Report abuse |
      • Michael

        Except that it is murder. What is it about passing through the birth canal that makes someone a person?

        March 13, 2012 at 9:31 pm | Report abuse |
      • dudereally

        Consciousness. The lack of which is the basis for pulling the plug on a loved one in a vegetative state. There is more to a person than just some barely functioning organs.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:49 pm | Report abuse |
      • Michael

        Babies are conscious all the time when in the womb. Additionally, full grown adults are unconscious all the time. Sleep is a state of unconsciousness.
        The only difference between a baby in the womb and a baby out of the womb is that one is in the womb and the other is not.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:55 pm | Report abuse |
  59. Seriously

    First of all the wand might be 10inches but they do not insert the entire thing. I had to have the same procedure done when it was suspected (and then confirmed) that I miscarried my baby. I did not consider it anything close to being raped. I can also promise you that i would have given anything for the results of my procedure to end up differently than it did. I think when a woman is making such a huge decsion that she should have all the information necessary even if that might be painful for her. She should know exactly what it is she is doing and what is at stake.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • Anvil of Reality

      "First of all the wand might be 10inches but they do not insert the entire thing. "

      Oh, great! That is so much better!

      That sound you heard was the point sailing over your head.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:57 pm | Report abuse |
    • Cleareye

      But were you forced to undergo the procedure? There is a difference. Trudeau's point is that it is similar to how you got pregnant in the first place willingly.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:58 pm | Report abuse |
    • dudereally

      It isn't up to you or anyone else to decide how much information the woman should receive. What is the point of hearing the heartbeat? It's obviously to convince her not to get the abortion, which she has a right to.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:09 pm | Report abuse |
  60. AmFem

    Penal probes before any vasectomies!!!

    March 13, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • DanBun

      Ocu. The Big V hurt enough without that invasion!

      March 13, 2012 at 9:14 pm | Report abuse |
  61. Patiat

    Buh buh buhcuz god wants us to do his bidding ere on Urth, Trudeau must be silenced.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Report abuse |
  62. AmFem

    Mnay of these right wingers were screaming about SHARIA LAW!!! Remember??? Now they're imposing the same types of law on American women and taking away our rights!!! Next we'll be wearing burkas and forced to walk behind our husbands.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:50 pm | Report abuse |
  63. bam

    the GOP's war on women, minorities and the middle class...
    It is NOT Muslim terrorists that hate our way of life it is the GOP and always has been....

    March 13, 2012 at 8:49 pm | Report abuse |
  64. George Bush

    Free Colonoscopy for all Texans, that what I say!

    March 13, 2012 at 8:48 pm | Report abuse |
    • Breath is soul

      Great idea! Those cost a couple thousand $$$ and think of all the lives it would save from colon cancer!

      March 13, 2012 at 9:01 pm | Report abuse |
  65. dbcooper

    How many women actually died each year getting an abortion prior to Roe v Wade?

    March 13, 2012 at 8:47 pm | Report abuse |
    • atroy

      Oh, go jump out of a plane!

      March 13, 2012 at 8:58 pm | Report abuse |
      • dbcooper

        Why the violent hostility to legitimate policy question?

        The US aborted over 1 million babies each year since roe v wade. How many women died getting abortions in 1970, 1971, & 1972?

        What is wrong about providing the ratio of "saved" women to dead kids?

        March 13, 2012 at 9:07 pm | Report abuse |
    • dman

      It's hard to get exact numbers on illegal activities, but there were recorded deaths of 2-3000 women per year from illegal abortions in the US prior to the introduction of antibiotics. After antibiotics became common, but before Roe v. Wade, it was typically ~200 women a year, usually due to blood loss.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:03 pm | Report abuse |
      • dbcooper

        So dman,

        Let's say 200 women per year times 40 years since 1973 = 8000.

        In other words, roe v wade has saved the lives of 8000 women at a cost of 50+million babies.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:13 pm | Report abuse |
    • Anvil of Reality

      In a debate, you really should know the answer to the questions you ask -before you ask them- .

      March 13, 2012 at 9:06 pm | Report abuse |
  66. George Bush

    Texas, mostly inbred mouth breathers. I hate the place but they'll vote for anyone with a big smile and a flight jacket on.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:45 pm | Report abuse |
  67. Kit Hill

    By defining an unborn child as a non-person you can justify just about anything in the same way slave owners, buyers and sellers justified (and still do) the slave trade. This is how the Nazi's justified the Holocaust and the "Level Four" experiments on disabled people. I also see ultra sound as informed consent. How many women have I met that wished they had not had an abortion after they have matured and had kids? I lost count a long time ago. If you know everything there is to know about abortion before you go in, then at least you're consenting with all the facts. Don't give me the argument about raising an unwanted child or not being able to give up the child for adoption. As long as we keep enabling people to be irresponsible, we will keep seeing irresponsible behavior.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:43 pm | Report abuse |
    • James PDX

      I don't completely disagree with you. But Texas and Perry have taken it too far. Imagine a rape victim wanting an abortion. Now she has to agree to letting a doctor rape her in order to get the abortion. No way. Totally inappropriate.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:49 pm | Report abuse |
    • Inglourious

      By defining a fertilized egg to be an unborn child, you can justify any maltreatment of the women.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • Todd Beaucoudray

      Jesus! More Nazi imagery to degrade the actual Holocaust.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:55 pm | Report abuse |
      • Scott

        That's interesting – how does one degrade the holocaust, exactly? Systematic murder of innocents because they weren't worthy of life in the eyes of those in power is a great thing, and comparing it to abortion makes it a bad thing?

        March 13, 2012 at 10:23 pm | Report abuse |
  68. r

    Naked scanners in airports, now rape by doctors. What more is the government planning for us. Thankfully the GOP is pulling hard for smaller and less invasive government. (rolling eyes)

    March 13, 2012 at 8:41 pm | Report abuse |
  69. Jon

    2 choices. You can have an abortion, or have the child and they'll be neglected and die horrifically from starvation. How anyone actually thinks the second option is better than the first seriously needs to rethink their outlook on abortion.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:38 pm | Report abuse |
    • freedomfromfear

      Or...you give the baby up for adoption. There are lots of families out there who would provide a wonderful home.
      http://www.adoptionservices.org/

      March 13, 2012 at 8:42 pm | Report abuse |
      • Observer

        There are tens of thousands of kids available for adoption right now. Find them homes.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:46 pm | Report abuse |
      • Todd Beaucoudray

        Surely, you jest! Tell the children in foster care that one.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:46 pm | Report abuse |
      • Cleareye

        Only if they are blonde, blue-eyed and test intelligent.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:54 pm | Report abuse |
      • freedomfromfear

        Great idea! My three siblings are adopted.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:55 pm | Report abuse |
      • Steve

        Only in a dream world can these children be placed. My wife worked in child welfare for years. These unwanted children are generally abused for several years, and THEN placed for adoption. They come with so much emotional baggage that no one wants to adopt them. Then they are placed in an over-stressed foster care system, where many of them suffer abuse again . . . and again. If you actually heard the stories from some of these people you would agree with them, that abortion would have been the MERCIFUL thing to do!

        March 13, 2012 at 9:01 pm | Report abuse |
      • BRod

        Oh how easy! Meanwhile you expect a woman to give up her life for nine months to carry a child she didn't want, and suffer the physical and emotional consequences, just so some nice family can have a kid. Once again, another person shows how they truly view women: as baby incubators – nothing more.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:09 pm | Report abuse |
      • freedomfromfear

        Steve – none of the people that I know who were adopted would have rather been aborted.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:12 pm | Report abuse |
      • freedomfromfear

        BRod, I do not think it is unreasonable for a woman to carry a baby to term so it can have a chance to live its life. After all, our own mothers did the same. And if you do not think there are physical and emotional consequences of having an abortion, you should read the following.
        http://new.planninglife.org/index.php?page=postabortionsyndrome

        March 13, 2012 at 9:25 pm | Report abuse |
  70. Anonymous

    Trudeau... is awesome! No one, and I mean no one... has the fricking right to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her body, especially a fricking man, who has no clue where that woman is coming from. You may not agree with a woman's decision to abort, but quite frankly, you need to mind your own fricking business, and keep out of other peoples' lives.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:34 pm | Report abuse |
    • aaron

      You want an abortion you pay for it. Won't stop you but why should I pay for your choices.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:53 pm | Report abuse |
      • dudereally

        This is one of the few rational contributions on this thread. Cheers!

        March 13, 2012 at 9:19 pm | Report abuse |
    • RightNyer

      That argument sucks. By that standard, you have no right to tell people they can't commit murder or rape, either. It's THEIR CHOICE. Don't interfere with their CHOICE.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:53 pm | Report abuse |
    • Pro-Life

      Abortion is murder, and I believe Jesus cries for each and every child. When it comes to rape, incest or a choice of the child or the mother living, I am glad as a man I will never be faced with those choices, at that point it is between the mother and her God/conscience. That being said there is a right way and a wrong way as Americans (and I'm going to assume Christians) to stop the travesty of abortion. This is the wrong way, and it does not get much worse (sic. Taliban). Jesus cries twice in Texas now.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:01 pm | Report abuse |
  71. veryoldguy

    What I find most annoying about "Pro-Life" people is their willful naivete. People have been killing babies since the dawn of time. Doctors and clinics aren't necessary. There are dozens of ways to induce the abortion of a fetus and plenty of elders in the village - or the suburb - who know how. It's just not all that complicated. Passing laws makes the righteous feel good about themselves but doesn't change anything other than make the inevitable more hazardous to women willing enough - or desperate enough - to take the risk. But these people with the "val-ues" don't care as long as they don't have to know about it. They want these things to be secrets. They glorify fetuses but don't give a damn about real children. Yeah, let the holy free market take care of those "other people's children."

    March 13, 2012 at 8:33 pm | Report abuse |
    • Everything in Moderation

      You hit the nail so very well on the head. You get my vote.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:42 pm | Report abuse |
    • freedomfromfear

      Yes, historically speaking infantcide was a common form of birth control. But we have evolved past that, now it is time to evolve past abortion. Regarding your point on taking care of other peoples children, the link below is to Compassion International which spend $500M of its donor's money last year doing just that, and it is a Christian Organization.

      http://www.compassion.com/

      March 13, 2012 at 8:54 pm | Report abuse |
      • dudereally

        Christianity is the reason we're having the debate. People don't want you dictating their lives based on your beliefs. Deal with it.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:23 pm | Report abuse |
  72. Mr.X

    Texas, such a nice place. Too bad people on the Right are SOOOO CREEEEPY. I understand why they believe in the supernatural- the world is a big scary place and it's probably very comforting to think there's some (obviously impossible) magic. But they're always doing stuff to screw with other people and acting like the Fake Man in the Sky wants them to do it, or ACTUALLY BELIEVING that the Fake Man in the Sky has communicated his opinions to them.
    How can intelligent people ever hope to win any argument with people that believe in total make-believe? So bizarre. Better schools? IDK

    March 13, 2012 at 8:32 pm | Report abuse |
  73. Tellyawhat

    When they are jamming that 10 inch shame wand up your 14 year old rape victim daughter, you will be wishing you had stood up against this sort of nazi behaviour before it happened to your family. Don't want an abortion don't have one but please don't try to legislate your religion or your burka onto others. And if you value your rights as a woman, act like you value them and vote accordingly.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:31 pm | Report abuse |
    • Bubba Ray Deadly

      Yeah, I read that they actually spread a woman's legs and put the entire procedure on public television. Definitely on the shameful side, at least locally. Let's hope their curtains are well kept.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:33 pm | Report abuse |
      • Chuck

        Requiring women to get consent from someone is not much different that making them go public, and is designed to shame or guilt a woman into what someone else thinks is the morally proper decision.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:47 pm | Report abuse |
    • Todd Beaucoudray

      Shame wand. (laughs)

      March 13, 2012 at 8:34 pm | Report abuse |
  74. rob

    90% of all Downs Syndrome baby's are aborted. In Canada women choose to abort female babies because they want males. A recent paper published in the journal of medical ethics stated the case for "after birth abortions" saying that the delivery of the baby was an arbitrary line and made no real difference to "personhood". Therefore no difference between abortion and killing a baby. No way around it, abortion is a horror show.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:31 pm | Report abuse |
    • Bruce

      So is rape. You believe abortion is murder? Don't have one. Stop forcing your religious beliefs on the rest of us. You want your religion to be law? Go live with the Taliban.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:34 pm | Report abuse |
    • Todd Beaucoudray

      Rob, do you have Down's? If not, then maybe you need to stop trying to force others to be born who will have a more difficult life than you. As a paraplegic, I politely tell you to STFU.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:35 pm | Report abuse |
      • rob

        Dr. David Wright (History of a Disability) of McGill University says the abortion rate is this way because "people want the perfect baby. He is not religious, only has a brother who has downs. Most Downs children grow up happy and heathy. Some don't but some "normal" babies don't.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:15 pm | Report abuse |
    • Observer

      Please tell us how many Down's Syndrome children you will adopt if these mothers finish their pregnancy and give them to you.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:36 pm | Report abuse |
      • Todd Beaucoudray

        Give them to Sarah Palin. who has earned millions for doing absolutely nothing but being vapid.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:43 pm | Report abuse |
    • Really?

      Hm. So Rob, is fetuses with Down syndrome are not aborted, who is going to pay for their care? You know it will mean higher taxes. Are you OK with that?
      As for delivery being arbitrary, I doubt whomever said that ever had a delivery or even attended one.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:43 pm | Report abuse |
      • rob

        We now decide who is worthy of life. Girls, well no. Disabled, not those either. Baby's already born, maybe, maybe not. Old? Alzheimer's? Sorry, dehydration for you. The line has been crossed.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:53 pm | Report abuse |
      • Todd Beaucoudray

        Rob, you're completely paranoid. Do you know how much money hospitals make in end-of-life care? Prolonging a dying person's life by machines costs millions and many times the person isn't even conscious.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:58 pm | Report abuse |
      • rob

        Todd look up "after birth abortion is logically sound" in the Telegraph (UK).

        March 13, 2012 at 9:24 pm | Report abuse |
    • Jen

      In Canada women abort female babies???? How can you sit there and spout lies?? Canadians are smarter, kinder, more evolved and worldly than 90 percent of Americans could ever hope to be. You are an idiot – there is no question your iq is below 80. Please do the world a favor and go step in front of a bus.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:50 pm | Report abuse |
      • rob

        CBC new reports "Selective abortions prompt call for Ultrasound rules"

        March 13, 2012 at 9:03 pm | Report abuse |
      • Jen

        65 people??? That is the smallest sample size I have ever seen. And it's talking about immigrants – you omitted that. Please go find that bus Rob. Make the world a better place!

        March 13, 2012 at 9:13 pm | Report abuse |
      • rob

        It's about immigrants?? So what???? That study confirmed others. So it wasn't a lie like you said. Are you that rude to people in person?

        March 13, 2012 at 9:19 pm | Report abuse |
      • JasonThomas

        Hey Jen,

        How does it feel as a collective nation to gargle US balls all the time. We're going to jam that 20" Colonial pipeline right up in your stink and tap you dry!

        March 13, 2012 at 10:14 pm | Report abuse |
    • Eric

      I have a cousin who has Down's syndrome. Her parents are very responsible and they take excellent care of her. However, they are a successful, loving, and stable couple with only one child to take of and the resources to do so. They also do not live in the United States, so they did have to go bankrupt paying for the multiple very expensive surgeries their daughter had to endure. What about all the families who cannot take care of such as special needs child? Why would anyone wish a life of neglect and abuse on such a poor child?

      March 13, 2012 at 8:51 pm | Report abuse |
    • Chuck

      No one is saying abortion is an easy decision – except for the right, who think that women have them so casually that if they think about it for 24 hours more they will change their minds.

      You know what is horrifying – making a women pregnant the product of incestuous, abusive rape have a baby. You know what's worse – making them see an ultrasound of the fetus developed inside them.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:57 pm | Report abuse |
    • David

      Abortion is not a great option but in cases or rape, incest the mothers health etc. It seems very odd that the same people that are rapid anti abortion at any cost are the same ones wanting to do nothing for those in these situations. No health care, get rid of the minimum wage, cutting of funding for enforcing child support, etc. The ones that want to reduce abortions are the pro choice as they actually want to do things that would reduce abortions. The far right side really does not want to reduce abortions they just want to make it against the law or expensive so the poor can't get it but we know the rich still would be able to. Even Sarah Palin said she let her daughter make the choice, very odd that people lake Sarah want to take the choice way from everyone else.

      March 14, 2012 at 11:43 am | Report abuse |
  75. macphile

    I wonder if anyone here has seen the Family Guy where Peter claims that he was raped by his doctor after getting a DRE (I'm using the abbreviation in case CNN filters it out)? A large percentage of a doctor's job is performing invasive procedures, and believe it or not, you're not actually allowed to call it rape when they do it. It's called medicine. Holy cow. If anything is an issue here, it's that the sonogram isn't medically necessary. But calling it rape is just ludicrous.

    I'm pro-life, BTW, and in Texas, and I'm not totally down with this law.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:29 pm | Report abuse |
    • MashaSobaka

      Coercing a woman into unwanted penetration before she can receive basic medical care might not meet the standard definition of rape, but it comes very close. This is not just about an invasive medical procedure. This is about an entirely unnecessary invasive medical procedure that gives the woman no information whatsoever that pertains to her own physical health and is unabashedly aimed at frightening and/or shaming her out of what should be a private medical decision. And it should be incredibly illegal. Anyone who voted in favor of this law is a sick and twisted individual.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:38 pm | Report abuse |
      • meemee

        The image of such a doctor seems to be akin to one of those medieval religious perverts who used to torture for their own goulish pleasure and sense of power. "Do you confess?" is all that is left out of the consultation.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:51 pm | Report abuse |
      • Mark

        "before she can receive basic medical care " so your calling abortion BASIC medical care?
        I'm fine and dandy with women's rights and am very pro choice but this sounds like something Ms Flukes would advocate so that EVERYONE can pay for it.
        Folks there is no more money for MORE Freebies. PAy your own way for crying out loud

        March 13, 2012 at 8:56 pm | Report abuse |
    • Drew

      I might agree if this were actually a medically necessary procedure

      March 13, 2012 at 8:50 pm | Report abuse |
    • KT

      The 'tests" you refer to are voluntary. They are not mandated by law. Big difference. And, as a reminder, Abortion is a legal procedure in the United States of America.

      March 14, 2012 at 11:37 am | Report abuse |
  76. BobTBuilder

    First off I'm not a conservative and I don't believe in god but how is making a women listen to the heartbeat of an unborn child considered rape?

    March 13, 2012 at 8:26 pm | Report abuse |
    • me

      I think it's more the 10 inch penetration that's rape. The heartbeat listening is emotional torture. If you disagree, let's see how you feel if Texas requires you to take 10 inches up the backside next time you need a filling. Assuming, of course, you don't already like 10 inches up the backside.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:29 pm | Report abuse |
      • BobTBuilder

        Sorry this is a case of the libreral wacky base smoking a bit too much pot. I have no problem with this and I don't even like Rick Perry.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:31 pm | Report abuse |
      • BobTBuilder

        That's likely a compelling argument for the Green party primary but arguing nonesene like this is not going to help you in a real election.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:38 pm | Report abuse |
      • me

        Sorry, bob, but there are a LOT of conservatives, especially women, who are against this. But you guys have made the rep party so toxic that anyone who disagrees won't speak up. I'm a moderate, and live in an area that's easily 90% conservative, and I've heard more than a few women discussing how bad this law is.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:40 pm | Report abuse |
      • BobTBuilder

        Ok retard, here is the funny thing I'm 40 and I've never voted for a republican. So pull your head out of your a$$ and take a good wiff of real life. There is nothing in this that violates any civil liberties.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:43 pm | Report abuse |
      • meemee

        BobTBuilder; Looks like you need to experience it in order to have some empathy.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Report abuse |
      • just sayin

        Don't they stick a vacuum hose up there to suck the baby out during an abortion?

        March 13, 2012 at 8:54 pm | Report abuse |
      • BobTRages

        For a 40 year old, you certainly have thin skin. Not surprising considering your knee jerk response that articulates your point. Did someone punch you as a baby?

        Whether or not the law violates civil liberties isn't the point. Liberal or not, conservative or not, it's still absolutely shameful for women is and sets a dangerous precedent.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:00 pm | Report abuse |
      • BobTBuilder

        @BobTRages

        Oh i'm so sorry i upset you. Grow up.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:30 pm | Report abuse |
    • K.C.

      My advice to you and all the men on this thread who applaud what Texas is doing is just SHUT UP! Sooner or later your going to find rectal exams and anal probes for your prescription of Viagra and you'll be singing a different tun when that happens. I'm pro-life but I see this as going to far as to insert a probe into anyone for what ever reason.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:31 pm | Report abuse |
    • Jon

      Just think... If a guy had a few female eggs, some test tubes, and a lonely friday night, he could commit mass murder.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:32 pm | Report abuse |
    • bigmowma

      well, let's put a 10" wand up your hiney. Then you can comment.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:34 pm | Report abuse |
      • BobTBuilder

        I have no problem with them saying that the man who did the deed has to have a ten inch anal probe up his ass.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • DanBun

      Why should the government require us to take a guilt trip? Shouldn't this be a private medical decision between a woman/person and her doctor? Why let government into this?

      March 13, 2012 at 8:43 pm | Report abuse |
      • Mark

        Gov't is in it and shouldn't be at ALL- Neither to make women go through this EXTRA step is silly enough but when the likes of Ms Flukes wants gov't to PAY FOR ALL OF IT or the CONTRACEPTIVES to prevent it then gov't becomes part of the issue. SO in Texas the idiot legislature couldn't find anything else to do that was worthy and Obama on a national level wants to pay for everything related to contraceptives or abortion. They both are wrong.
        Improve the economy and get out of our lives and take the handouts with you.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:03 pm | Report abuse |
  77. Bubba Ray Deadly

    Can a man scream rape after he finds out his woman poked holes in his condoms?

    March 13, 2012 at 8:25 pm | Report abuse |
    • me

      Only if she then forces him into her. Maybe he could cry fraud.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:27 pm | Report abuse |
      • Bubba Ray Deadly

        Sounds like a double standard to me. An unwanted child isn't his decision to abort unless he physically harms her. And she's just shackled him to 18 years of service otherwise.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:31 pm | Report abuse |
    • MashaSobaka

      With a name like "Bubba Ray Deadly" I'm not really surprised that you do not have even a basic grasp of what "rape" is, but it's still upsetting. Go back to your hole, please.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:40 pm | Report abuse |
      • DanBun

        Let's not silence people we disgaree with. Not very civil....

        March 13, 2012 at 8:44 pm | Report abuse |
  78. Apu Shawarda

    "They hope the woman bears the baby, which may have been conceived through rape or incest, or even if the birth may endanger her life. It’s a prescription for child abuse, child neglect, or child abandonment."

    Such a cop-out. Keep trying to justify murder, it isn't working.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:24 pm | Report abuse |
    • Todd Beaucoudray

      Wait until more boxes, bathrooms, and ERs are filled with more neglected babies.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:25 pm | Report abuse |
    • Observer

      So they DON'T happen?

      Try again.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:25 pm | Report abuse |
    • Zowe

      Murder applies to people, a fetus is not a person no matter how hard you believe it is.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:28 pm | Report abuse |
      • freedomfromfear

        Unless of course you are Scott Peterson who was convicted of murdering his wife and unborn child, err...sorry...fetus.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Peterson

        March 13, 2012 at 8:34 pm | Report abuse |
      • bigmowma

        Yep, fetuses AND corporations. Both are people. They said so.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:39 pm | Report abuse |
    • me

      Really? Let me bring over the child of someone who rapes you and tell you that you're required to love, raise and nurture it. Yeah, that's what I thought.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:30 pm | Report abuse |
      • Todd Beaucoudray

        Haha! I love that! Bravo!

        March 13, 2012 at 8:32 pm | Report abuse |
    • TailoftheCat

      Spoken like a MAN.
      One who supports rape, even by a legal government law. I'm so tired of MEN and their encroachment on a woman's body and rights lately. I hope other women are truly waking up and will vote these people out of office and run for office themselves.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:36 pm | Report abuse |
      • DanBun

        Texas has a lot of women who vote. And EVERY state elected office in this state is a Republican! ALL of them elected state-wide. Are women thus their own worst enemies?

        March 13, 2012 at 8:48 pm | Report abuse |
  79. CMH

    The fix for this legislation is easy. The first person to get a probe forced into them against their will just needs to cry 'RAPE!' and then the law will be on hold while they see what kind of sentence to give the doctor.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:21 pm | Report abuse |
  80. rob

    What's the difference between the entry point of this procedure and that of an abortion?

    March 13, 2012 at 8:21 pm | Report abuse |
    • Rick

      Moron – choice vs. forced. Go back to the Kool-Aid.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:26 pm | Report abuse |
    • Todd Beaucoudray

      The same difference between a man's mouth and a woman's mouth, Rob.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:26 pm | Report abuse |
    • Zowe

      CONSENT

      March 13, 2012 at 8:28 pm | Report abuse |
    • CLS

      Consent.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:30 pm | Report abuse |
    • TailoftheCat

      There is no difference, its RAPE.
      R
      A
      P
      E

      March 13, 2012 at 8:39 pm | Report abuse |
    • KT

      Abortion is a legal procedure in the United States of America.

      March 14, 2012 at 11:46 am | Report abuse |
  81. Bob in NY

    The article states that the Texas lawmakers..."hope the woman bears the baby, which may have been conceived through rape or incest, or even if the birth may endanger her life. It’s a prescription for child abuse, child neglect, or child abandonment." So, completing this logic, rather than all those terrible things (which are terrible), we should kill the baby? Makes no sense. 20 yearsago, babies that were a month or two early had high mortality rates; now, babies born very ealry can survive to lead healthy lives. Don't take it out on the baby...it;s a lousy situation, but it ain't the baby's fault

    March 13, 2012 at 8:18 pm | Report abuse |
    • Jon

      Why people feel like a 6 week old fetus is a person scares me. They have no control over anything, no brainpower, no independent thought. It's not the same as murder. Why can't people see that?

      March 13, 2012 at 8:24 pm | Report abuse |
      • Zowe

        For the same reason they believe there is an invisible man in the sky...they are small-minded idiots.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:29 pm | Report abuse |
      • Bruce

        Many of these same people, that cry murder when a zygote is removed from a woman's uterus, cheer wildly as we bomb, maim and kill hundreds of thousands of people in a false war. Yeah, they're pro-life as long as they don't disagree with the politics... and as long as the life is microscopic.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:39 pm | Report abuse |
    • meemee

      Bob – not true. Hardly any early born fetus can survive outside of the womb without a great deal of expensive equipment.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:32 pm | Report abuse |
      • DanBun

        Usually paid for by taxpayers; isn't that "welfare"?

        March 13, 2012 at 8:49 pm | Report abuse |
    • macphile

      I can't understand why people don't think a fetus is a person, but I learned long ago that no one's ever going to agree on this. The thing is, if someone ripped a 6-week-old baby out of a woman, people wouldn't just consider it assault. They'd be upset over someone killing her child. Yet when she does it herself, it's OK. Either it's a baby, or she's not allowed to be upset if she loses the baby in the first two trimesters because "it wasn't a person."

      March 13, 2012 at 8:33 pm | Report abuse |
    • juggle

      It ain't your baby to decide, Bob. I'm making an educated guess you'll never have to bring one to term, so who the hell are YOU to force the woman to bear it? Especially if she didn't do anything to invite it... or are you one of these right-wingers who say that a coercive, usually violent act (i.e. – rape) which results in an unwanted pregnancy is still a "gift from God?"

      March 13, 2012 at 8:37 pm | Report abuse |
    • TailoftheCat

      Spoken like a MAN.
      One who supports rape, even by a legal government law. I'm so tired of MEN and their encroachment on a woman's body and rights lately. I hope other women are truly waking up and will vote these people out of office and run for office themselves.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:40 pm | Report abuse |
    • cynicalme

      years ago i saw the 6-8wk embryo of my miscarriage. with my own eyes. i had to "collect it" to take in for testing to determine the cause, if any. as much as i was devastated by the miscarriage and all i endured from beginning to end, like nearly bleeding to death, there was no way i could ever say to someone -or agree with them when they said it- that it was a baby. no, it was a potential. one that that was, sadly, lost. i hated that. but i did not look at that embryo and see a baby. i thought a lot of things but did not think or see anything but "embryo". the early ones you're talking about would be late-term abortions, and those are very scarce and i don't think many physicians would enter into that situation lightly and without the absolute most grave concerns for the life of the mother. perhaps absolute proof that there would be a still birth and preventing a woman from continuing to carry that which would not be a viable pregnancy. late term abortion is a red herring argument, and measures like this are just plain wrong.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:54 pm | Report abuse |
      • juggle

        I am so sorry you had to go through that.
        It is clear that there are many who just don't understand, and likely never will rise up out of their ignorance.

        March 13, 2012 at 11:02 pm | Report abuse |
  82. Bill C

    For all of the hysteria, I can't help but notice that the article fails to mention one important fact. Whatever this procedure is (and I am quite positive is less invasive then the author states) it is nowhere near as invasive as murder. Killing a baby is worse. It never ceases to amaze me how the left tries to paint this as a women's issue. Half the babies that are murdered by abortion are women. Where are the women's advocates to speak for them?

    March 13, 2012 at 8:18 pm | Report abuse |
    • Observer

      You don't know the individual mental and physical conditions of the women involved. What gives you the right to decide they should have no say in their health issues?

      March 13, 2012 at 8:20 pm | Report abuse |
      • freedomfromfear

        True, but we do know the physical state of the baby is completly dependent upon the emotional state of the mother. And since the Baby has no say in its health issues, its important that the mother get as much information regarding the baby as possible.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:28 pm | Report abuse |
    • Zowe

      Zygotes are not babies.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:30 pm | Report abuse |
    • arsphidius

      I've had this procedure, to see if I had miscarried. It is EXTREMELY invasive, uncomfortable, and painful.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:32 pm | Report abuse |
    • K.C.

      Your a man Bro...leave it alone. Women in this country are getting a little peeved about all of this and you and other men like you are going to be on the losing end and sleeping on the couch. Hope you ain't taking Viagra because some female legislatures are adding amendments to bills that will require men to get stress test and rectal exams for their prescription of it.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:36 pm | Report abuse |
    • macphile

      Thank you! Killing children is not a women's issue. I don't get all these guys who say, "Well, I think it's wrong, but it's the woman's body, so I'll let her decide." [beep] that.

      But there's one funny thing about this: No matter how one defines a fetus or where one stands, things are always going to be a little gray because the baby is inside another person. Saying a man has equal say would give him the right to force a woman to abort or to forcibly prevent her from doing so. It goes down a lot of ugly roads. The laws are always going to have to be freaking weird as long as babies grow inside another person. That's why the "personhood" thing didn't fly. Where were people going to draw the line about the fetus' rights?

      I'm pro-life myself, but I know it's a tricky business, and I'm not sure I agree with this law, either.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:38 pm | Report abuse |
    • Mary Clem

      The procedure is quite invasive; have you had one before?

      March 13, 2012 at 8:43 pm | Report abuse |
  83. Amanda

    I'm waiting for the argument that having your tubes tied or a hysterectomy is also murder of a future child. Men would then also be on the chopping block then wouldn't they? If the fetus cannot survive on its on outside the womb, it is just not a viable life. Late term abortions are wrong unless done to save the mother's life, as these children could survive. But early term abortions have their place and were legalized because women were putting their lives at risk to terminate pregnancies. Better to have a medical procedure done by someone who is a licensed medical professional in a sanitary environment, than by some backroom wacko with a coathanger. I don't hear the pro-life set discussing the number of lives saved by legalizing abortions...

    And as far as getting these children adopted, realistically, adoption in the United States is so expensive and takes so long, people go to Africa and other countries. These countries don't have legal abortion and their populations are exploding. The children there are starving and have medical issues due to neglect and poverty. So forcing the birth of a child in the United States lead you down this path; consider that. And Americans won't adopt a child who has the potential for medical or mental issues, as the overflowing foster care systems show. If children were in such short supply, orphanages and foster care would not be needed.

    And who will pay for these unwanted children? Stopping the mother from having an abortion does NOT make her want to keep that child. The public taxpayer assumes the burden then: birth, medical, foster care, juvenile detention, prison. It's not just an attention-grabber here: this is the reality of being an unwanted child. Why wouldn't I, as a taxpayer, want to pay for birth control rather than unwanted child? It is cheaper, where it is an abortion or pill control pills. How many children are born now just for a welfare check?

    The founding men, yes, MEN, of our country said we should keep government and religion separate, after learning hard lessons of their own from such a mix. Here again, religion is causing an issue over a government concern. Why is everyone so oblivious to this? It's about the rights granted by the government, not the church, to a person, who is a citizen, not a worshipper.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:16 pm | Report abuse |
    • DanBun

      Generally, I agree. Except that government does not grant rights. Government's duty is to defend those rights.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:18 pm | Report abuse |
    • Bill C

      If you are really confused by this, let me explain. A baby does not die when one ties their tubes. That wasn't that hard, was it?

      March 13, 2012 at 8:19 pm | Report abuse |
      • Everyman

        Every unused egg is a life that could have been. (Every abortion is a life that could have been) I really do see evangelicals expanding their definition of life.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:30 pm | Report abuse |
      • bigmowma

        Unless you're Catholic... I know what's next...abstinence ala Rick Santorum.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:45 pm | Report abuse |
      • David Johnston

        It's not a baby!

        March 13, 2012 at 9:40 pm | Report abuse |
      • Scott

        Everyman, every egg or sperm is NOT a life that could have been. In high school biology class, you may recall the point in time where they talked about s3xual and as3xual modes of reproduction. Just a quick point, we reproduce s3xually. That is, we need the egg and sperm to come together and then fuse to the uterus. A sperm will never develop into a human being on it's own – it needs to fertilize an egg and the egg has attach to the wall of the uterus for it to become life. That is where your argument falls apart. It's a straw man really.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:38 pm | Report abuse |
    • macphile

      You're assuming only religious people can be pro-life?

      March 13, 2012 at 8:39 pm | Report abuse |
      • dudereally

        I personally have never met an irreligious person that is Pro-Life.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:07 pm | Report abuse |
    • Are You Kidding?

      i couldn't agree with you more. I am male and wonder what they are going to next. I would laugh when they say I want government out of your lives except it is no longer funny......because they keep attacking personal moral issues and always place there religious views on us. But what really worries me is the way the ultra extremest religious nuts are running the issues of the conservative /tea party republicans. We have real problems but they toss this in why? can you say Iran only the Christian extremest version here in the US..........I am a christian and find that thought scarey!

      March 13, 2012 at 8:49 pm | Report abuse |
  84. N40

    Women will find alternate methods like in the stone ages. Coat hangers and knitting needles will be all the rage. For or against abortion, a woman will ultimately do what they feel is the right thing. Now we risk hurting two lives rather than just one.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:16 pm | Report abuse |
  85. mvoci

    so... are prostate exams also rape? Oh wait, they are voluntary... kind of like abortion.... hmmmmm. I like it when logic is so rational for one person's argument, but so irrational for another.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:14 pm | Report abuse |
    • Todd in DC

      Wow. Prostate exams are used to determine cancer. What is this ultrasound being used for that benefits the woman? Seriously? And try not to be misogynistic with your answer.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:18 pm | Report abuse |
      • Bill C

        I will help. It saves the babies life, who is 50/50 likely to be a woman. Glad to assist.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:20 pm | Report abuse |
      • Scott

        Well said BillC.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:40 pm | Report abuse |
    • Frank

      So the exam is optional?

      March 13, 2012 at 8:20 pm | Report abuse |
    • tas

      When a woman's life is in danger, I would hardly call it volunary. Of course you don't want to think about that type of an issue because it may force you to actually THINK.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:22 pm | Report abuse |
      • mvoci

        I imagine you are talking about ectopic pregnancies, which don't force these examinations under the texas law. The exam would be done anyways to save the life of the mother.

        Cute thoughts though.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • commonsense

      If a person refuses a prostate exam but is forced to have one, then yes it is rape. Even if the prostate exam is required by law.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:25 pm | Report abuse |
    • Everyman

      Bill C, food and shelter saves a babies life too. So government will provide those too with this law, right?

      March 13, 2012 at 8:33 pm | Report abuse |
  86. TiffanyD

    If they found a clump of cells on mars everyone would say there was life on mars, but those same clump of cells are treated like nothing on earth. : /

    March 13, 2012 at 8:13 pm | Report abuse |
    • DanBun

      Interesting thought.
      But a main point here is that I do not want government deciding for my wife or daughters. That is their life, and their choice. When we allow government to make such decisions for us, it is a dangerous path....

      March 13, 2012 at 8:16 pm | Report abuse |
      • Bill C

        We do this all the time. We tell people they can't shoot someone because the exercise of their rights infringes on the rights of another. So we can, and should tell people they can't exercise the "right" to kill their baby.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:21 pm | Report abuse |
      • DanBun

        BillC: the difference is that when you shoot someone, you risk their life. The 14th Amendment states that we are "persons" when we are born. Thus, a fetus does not qualify. Granted, a 9 month old fetus is very close to personhood, and this is a difficult line to draw. But we have a history of using our BIRTH dates, not our conception dates.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:24 pm | Report abuse |
      • Scott

        Dan, whatever our history is doesn't make it right. The Nazis, Soviets, Chinese and Korean communists all have a history of systematically exterminating people.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:42 pm | Report abuse |
    • me

      Big difference: a clump of cells on mars would have to be able to sustain itself independently. An clump of cells that is unable to live outside the womb is not yet a life.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:48 pm | Report abuse |
      • DanBun

        Good point.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:51 pm | Report abuse |
  87. Steve

    What a shameful twisting of the details.

    Trudeau tries to liken the ultrasound wand to rape – however, having the ultrasound is not required for those in Texas who don't wish an abortion and thus is not coerced on the population in general.

    AND the instruments used to perform the abortion are far more invasive. If he wishes to use that definition of rape (coerced penetration) then the abortion procedure itself would also be defined as rape. However, the outcome of an abortion is a dead baby and possible injury to the woman having the abortion. The outcome of an ultrasound won't harm the woman.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:13 pm | Report abuse |
    • DanBun

      I live in Texas. This new law is designed to deter women from having an abortion. They couch it in terms of "informed consent", but it is mroe coerced consent, as the woman has no choice. It has the distinct feel of a guilt-trip.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:19 pm | Report abuse |
      • Matthew

        This law's intent is to make sure women make an informed decision by making sure they have adequate information to make a proper decision.

        This law does two things: One, it gives women new information that some them may not have had before by showing them that the baby inside them is a living being. Two, it gives them a period of time to consider this new information so they can make the proper decision. If they still want to have an abortion, they can.

        Just because giving a group truthful information causes the majority of the group to make the same decision does not make the giving of that information a guilt trip.

        Also, I believe the sonogram would occur at the abortion facility. The facility would still have to comply with this law, but would do everything in its power to convince women to have abortions and would not give the women a guilt trip.

        Finally, the street goes both ways. Could not I say that by withholding this information from women you are encouraging them to make an uninformed decision? This is not a guilt trip, but it is still trying to get someone to do something without letting them make a fully informed, fully independent decision.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:58 pm | Report abuse |
    • Todd in DC

      It's rape because an abortion is a legal procedure. Should men get prostate exams every time they get a prescription for Viagra? Are you really that ignorant?

      March 13, 2012 at 8:20 pm | Report abuse |
      • Bill C

        Once again, Todd, a prostrate exam does not result in the loss of life. Abortion does. And can't you respond to someone without insulting them?

        March 13, 2012 at 8:23 pm | Report abuse |
      • DanBun

        Bill C: you assume that you know when life begins. Not all religions agree on that. I eprsonally believe it starts at quickening, but I cannot "prove" that, it's just what I believe. But I refuse to impose that belief onto you, or anyone else. And I resent anyone imposing theirs on me.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:26 pm | Report abuse |
      • Todd Beaucoudray

        Bill C. Miscarriages are also a loss of life, are you blaming God?

        March 13, 2012 at 8:28 pm | Report abuse |
    • want2believe

      So god forbid your daughter or wife gets raped and it results in a pregnancy and they choose to have an abortion...you don't feel that having the government mandate their doctor insert something into their genitals won't cause them any emotional harm either?

      March 13, 2012 at 8:26 pm | Report abuse |
  88. LouieD

    Still waiting for the religious right to get on God's case for all the miscarriages he causes through "His will". It should go without saying that God is the most prolific abortionist who ever lived!

    March 13, 2012 at 8:12 pm | Report abuse |
    • Observer

      Yes. 900,000 per year.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:12 pm | Report abuse |
    • Todd Beaucoudray

      Exactly! Or the fact these religious idiots think a person is born destined to go to Hell if they don't follow whatever rules they deem sufficient. How calculated is that? Forced to be born and with eternal damnation on one's slate before they even cut the cord.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:30 pm | Report abuse |
  89. Andrew

    Trudeau is absolutely correct. As specified, a rape is exactly what the NeoCon teaparty rightwing fascists are doing to women. Why ANY woman would put up with these Neandethols is beyond logic or comprehension. What is it with Republiklans that they are so obsessed with a womans reproductive organs?? Did their fathers rape and abuse their wives while these 'Boys from Brazil' watched??Man this country has reverted to the 5th century.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:11 pm | Report abuse |
    • DanBun

      so vote them out of office.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:20 pm | Report abuse |
    • Stoneman

      Contemporary liberalism is fascist. Either learn history or learn what fascism is (it certainly is not protective of innocent life; see, e.g., the Third Reich).

      March 13, 2012 at 8:30 pm | Report abuse |
      • Anvil of Reality

        Stoneman,

        You do not understand what fascism is. I suggest that you take you own advice -study history and learn what fascism is.

        Or STFU, your call.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:53 pm | Report abuse |
      • DanBun

        Fascism is an invasion form of government, where the state can decide what is best for society. Liberals believe in individual liberty (the Founders, for example) and equality of opportunity. A Fascist would choose another person's religious belief (your reference to NAZI Germany), and no liberal would support that.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:54 pm | Report abuse |
  90. Thinks2010

    There are currently bills being considered in Arizona, Kansas and Oklahoma that would allow a doctor who discovers that the fetus will be born with a devastating does not have to tell the parents if he (the doctor) does not believe in abortion. So now, ladies and gentleman, the radical right is permitting doctors to lie about medical conditions, the results of blood tests, ultra-sounds, cvs and amnios to their patients.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • Thinks2010

      Oops. Post should say, . . . born with a devastating condition . . . ."

      March 13, 2012 at 8:12 pm | Report abuse |
  91. Morningstar

    If you think your vote (or lack of) doesn't count, look at Texas and other states passing laws to legally infringe on women's rights. It is time to organize and vote for people who protect the rights of Americans who are already born.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:10 pm | Report abuse |
  92. iDoc

    This isn't as invasive or traumatic as the abortion procedure the women are seeking. Even if it is done with oral medications the women still have to abort/deliver the dead baby.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:08 pm | Report abuse |
    • DanBun

      Perhaps. But the aboriton choice is HER choice. Having this procedure is the government FORCING her to do something; and also forcing the medical professional to do something that they may not feel necessary. Why are we so quick to allow government to tell us how to live our lives?

      March 13, 2012 at 8:14 pm | Report abuse |
      • iDoc

        I think most people would agree that one of the few obligations of a government is to protect the populous. Who's included in that populous . . . well you can see the fight in these comments.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:21 pm | Report abuse |
      • DanBun

        idoc: the 14th Amendment is a prime issue here. It refers to personhood and citizenship as beginning at birth. Not at conception, or any time between. We have very little else in the Consitution to base this on. The other parts would be invidual freedoms, and the limitations that are rightfully placed on government action.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:29 pm | Report abuse |
    • me

      The question isn't the level of invasion. It's the choice. In any other state, if the woman wants the abortion, then she is choosing to have things done to her that must be done to complete the abortion. Having a 10 inch probe placed inside her that IS NOT necessary and is not required elsewhere is AGAINST her choosing. I'm betting if Texas passed a law that said YOU had to have a 10 inch probe placed in your rectum in order to get a vasectomy, you'd be AGAINST that law.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:19 pm | Report abuse |
      • DanBun

        I sure would!
        Of course, there is no need to do that for the Big V.
        Then again, is there really a "need" to do this for an abortion?....

        March 13, 2012 at 8:22 pm | Report abuse |
      • iDoc

        People on both sides of the aisle have gotten behind the idea of fewer abortions. Male vasectomy = female tubal ligation. Male vasectomy = abortion? C'mon.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:23 pm | Report abuse |
    • David Johnston

      It's not a baby! Get it?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:48 pm | Report abuse |
  93. tom

    Give us 10 years and Islam will be proud of what Texas is becoming. Radical religious leaders forcing truly terrifying rules onto a cowering mass. Come on Texas, don't become that guy. You have traditions of greatness, not being mewly sheep led by empty hats.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:07 pm | Report abuse |
  94. Observer

    There are 900,000 miscarriages every year, but I don't hear anyone complaiining about God as an abortionist.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:05 pm | Report abuse |
    • N from seattle

      and people die of old age, does that make Him a murderer? The question is about what we do, who can know the mind of God? It is a question of basic fundamental rights. The more fundamental right is the one the allows for the possibility of the other, and where there is a conflict, we must rule in favor of the more fundamental right, this is the principle of non-maleficence. For instance, the right to liberty is a more fundamental right than the right to property, because what good would it be if I owned my own home, but you could own me? In like manner, what good is the right to liberty, or to so-called "choice," if I didn't have a right to live, because if I wasn't allowed to live, any discussion of any other rights would be moot. Hence, the right to life is the most fundamental right of them all, for it is the one right that allows for the possibilty of any and all other rights.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:17 pm | Report abuse |
      • DanBun

        You are assuming that rights cannot co-exist, whereas they can. But my rights end when they interfere with yours. And my rights include my body; it thus is no one else's business if I get a vasectomy, or a woman has a similar procedure. You ahve the right to express your opinions, but you cannot impose your religious beliefs onto others.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:32 pm | Report abuse |
      • N from seattle

        DanBun, you cannot impose your secularist rights on others

        March 13, 2012 at 9:13 pm | Report abuse |
      • David Johnston

        It's still not a baby!

        March 13, 2012 at 9:49 pm | Report abuse |
      • Rigel54

        Oh, "He" (if "He" exists) is definitely a murderer, and a torturer. He is all powerful, yet allows, even guides the deaths of millions of innocents. He sanctions all manner of murder and torture in the Bible. If real, he's a pretty horrible guy. If human, he would be thrown in jail and executed.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:49 pm | Report abuse |
    • me

      N from seattle, you're NOT a right to lifer. You're a required to lifer. Funny how so many right to life conservatives totally support an individual's right to end their own life at their choosing.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:24 pm | Report abuse |
      • N from seattle

        DanBun, you cannot impose your secularist beliefs on others.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:14 pm | Report abuse |
      • N from seattle

        ...and as far as being a "Required to Lifer," that is new one to me. So in your logic, we should not prevent people from committing suicide? Does that mean now we should shut down all the suicide prevention lines and mental health resources available to people who are contemplating suicide? Most people who consider suicide later on are thankful that someone stopped them. What we need to do is to help people who are dying, die with dignity. Putting them down like a dog is not in keeping with human dignity.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:50 pm | Report abuse |
    • CN

      N from seattle–fatuous points one and all. did you "know" when you weren't born? and if i know anything, i know this much: none of my fellow primates knows the mind of god, if there is one. how do you know that god doesn't like abortions, which is why nature is the greatest abortifactant? what source of information do you have available that is denied to me, that says the fetus has rights at the moment of conception? you can't know any of this. you theists just claim to.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:05 pm | Report abuse |
      • N from seattle

        What does "knowing" have to do with anything? If someone steals from you and never knew anything was missing, it doesn't make the stealing right. We have to assess people based on full human potential, not on potential already acquired, otherwise no one would ever be given a chance for anything. It is a slippery slope, in fact all attempts to define when personhood begins has been erroneous. It is the same logic used in the Dred Scott decision.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:54 pm | Report abuse |
  95. Convinced in Texas

    Okay, you win. I've decided to be Pro-abortion. You must be right. Because everytime I read an article like this I end up wishing that the author's mother had elected to have an abortion.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:05 pm | Report abuse |
    • sally forth

      perfect answer....if you dont like what you read...you think the author needs to be killed......funy how anti-abortionists always believe that violence wil solve the problem.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:06 pm | Report abuse |
      • richard kocan

        Not unlike the people who bomb fertility and abortion clinics. You guys ain't all saints

        March 13, 2012 at 8:08 pm | Report abuse |
      • tom

        yeah, I noticed that too. Odd.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:08 pm | Report abuse |
      • Play Fair

        Convinced in Texas, I agree with Sally on the level that your comments can be portrayed as pretty mean. However, I disagree with Sally and the other posters on one thing, Convinced in Texas simply said he wished the author would have been aborted, he did not say anything about killing her or using violence.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:38 pm | Report abuse |
      • Play Fair

        In other words, why the inconsistency? Would it have been killing and violent for the author to have been aborted or not? I'm all for you making your argument and I agree there is a spirit of meanness in our culture on this issue, but it seems that many people at some level feel that there is something just not 100% right about abortion. You just confirmed it inadvertently about yourself.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:49 pm | Report abuse |
      • N from seattle

        and how often does violence against abortion mills and abortionists take place? Most violence is against pro-lifers...the numerous women beaten and bullied and threatened and intimidated into getting abortions...an the fact that in almost every abortion, at least one person dies...

        March 13, 2012 at 9:56 pm | Report abuse |
    • ?

      You rubes still don't know the difference between pro-CHOICE and pro-ABORTION, do you?

      March 13, 2012 at 8:09 pm | Report abuse |
    • scratching my head over that one

      I was just wondering if the people in Texas are really as stupid as it would seem, judging by the morons they elect. Then I read this guy's post and my curiosity was answered.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:16 pm | Report abuse |
      • DanBun

        Some of us are! But not all of us!
        But I'd bet that your state has a few idiots in office, too.... 🙂

        March 13, 2012 at 8:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • Robrob

      Perfect satire of a Right Wing-nut.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • PraiseTheLard

      You'd fit right in among the Taliban... have you considered moving to Afghanistan?

      March 13, 2012 at 9:30 pm | Report abuse |
      • David Johnston

        I think the Talaban has moved to Austin.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:51 pm | Report abuse |
      • N from seattle

        It looks to me that you would have more in common with the Taliban: they display contempt for human life, you display contempt for human life. They refuse to recognize the dignity of all human life, you refuse to recognize the dignity of all human life. They wish to impose an all invasive state upon people, you wish to impose your radical secularist agenda on all people.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:59 pm | Report abuse |
  96. Plum

    And the abortion procedure itself isn't "invasive?" Give me a break. So many people have been brainwashed into thinking trying to protect the profits of the abortion industry is somehow standing up for women's rights. When in fact they are standing up for killing millions of women before they even get the chance to be born.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:04 pm | Report abuse |
    • richard kocan

      There are no laws mandating abortion; its elective, unlike the shamewand proceedure

      March 13, 2012 at 8:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • ?

      Yes, invasive into THEIR OWN BODIES.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:11 pm | Report abuse |
    • DanBun

      But an abortion is a woman's choice, based on her faith, morality, and needs. It is not my business, nor yours.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:36 pm | Report abuse |
    • David Johnston

      It's not a baby! Never was.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:52 pm | Report abuse |
  97. N from seattle

    Wow, what an idotic argument...first off, Trudeau and this so-called journalist need to do better research, because what the law currently requires and is the practice throughout the state and the nation when performing an abortion is to do an ultrasound to find the position and number of babies in the womb. So to equate it with rape is to reveal ignorance of current abortion practices, which is probably why this stupid, stupid argument wasn't even presented by the opposition at the hearings.

    Stupid.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:03 pm | Report abuse |
    • Robrob

      It would help if you actually knew what you were talking about before you comment. The ultrasound required is an invasive procedure (10" of invasion). The ultrasound that is medically standard is not invasive – the kind they roll across the woman's belly. Wonder why the statute requires an unwanted, forced, medically unnecessary, invasive procedure?

      March 13, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • BMW57

      Again, and I will type slowly for the Texans: Roe v. Wade determned that termination of a pregnancy in the first trimester is legal without any supportive tests. The Texas legislature has commited a severe over reach (Again). You do not wish to have an abortion then don't but you may not interfere with a woman's right to choose.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:50 pm | Report abuse |
      • N from seattle

        Roe V Wade didn't settle anything. It was based on all the same kind of faulty logic of personhood that was issued in another, previous and notorious Supreme Court ruling: Dred Scott. And that lead to civil war.

        This battle is far from over...it will never be over until it is turned over...and buried with the proper funeral that should have been given to the over 57 million souls who have been its victim.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:04 pm | Report abuse |
  98. Jesus loves me......

    ...but oops, he just sppontaneously aborted another fetus......hmmm, that would make him a murderer,,,,,,hey wait, that makes Jesus a liberal.....YAY Jesus!

    March 13, 2012 at 8:02 pm | Report abuse |
    • ace

      right on brother!

      March 13, 2012 at 8:02 pm | Report abuse |
    • the grand tobacconist

      Jesus loves us all, and t is not for Cristians to determine...they just think they can boss around everyone....
      JESUS, protect me from your followers!

      March 13, 2012 at 8:04 pm | Report abuse |
      • brian

        This is my favorite comment.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:10 pm | Report abuse |
      • Andrew

        AMEN!!!

        March 13, 2012 at 8:13 pm | Report abuse |
      • BluedHawK

        @the grand tobacconist: Sad, but true words & thoughts in there.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:17 pm | Report abuse |
    • sally forth

      Too bad more Christians don't practice what they preach, tolerance and forgiveness.....tehy are too busy trying to tell everyone what they should do in their bedrooms....

      March 13, 2012 at 8:05 pm | Report abuse |
      • N from seattle

        Right....and you liberal radical secularist want the Church to stay out of your bedrooms, but as in the case of the HHS mandate, you still want us to pick up the tab for what happens there....

        March 13, 2012 at 8:19 pm | Report abuse |
      • Robrob

        Of course you have no problem with insurance paying for Viagra or penile implants do you? Funny how that's not an issue.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:49 pm | Report abuse |
      • Rigel54

        Not radical and not necessarily liberal or secular. A large majority of Americans support the use of contraception, and a substantial majority support choice in abortion. Most recognize that anti-choice argument are not based on science or reality but mystical, mythical concepts and the thinking of primitive, ignorant peoples.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:39 pm | Report abuse |
  99. tom

    you get what you deserve when you elect these idiots. Sorry Texas women. You either need to organize, or move. People around the world are watching a once great nation slowly limp back into the dark ages.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:01 pm | Report abuse |
  100. Duh

    A zygote is not a baby...Just like a toddler is not an adult! or a human corpse is not a baby! Do you understand the cycle of life now? Go back to studing creationism you dumbos!

    March 13, 2012 at 7:59 pm | Report abuse |
    • freedomfromfear

      And it looks like you need to study biology. A zygote is the cell that results from fertilization. In the human development cycle it is brief. In otherwords, a zygote does not have a heartbeat, so this exam is happening much later in the development cycle. You should also study some Psychology, specifically dehumanization which is essential for an otherwise rational person to take the life of another person. By calling a baby a zygote you are dehumanizing the human that has the heartbeat.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:23 pm | Report abuse |
      • juggle

        Actually, it could just be that you're humanizing the zygote.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:32 pm | Report abuse |
      • Robrob

        And the "dehumanizing" of the 14 year old rape victim subject to the 10" wand of shame?

        March 13, 2012 at 8:47 pm | Report abuse |
      • Todd Beaucoudray

        Dehumanization is essential to kill or commit murder? It's clear you haven't studied psychology yourself. Many people murder because they do indeed recognize the other person's humanity and want to end it, i.e., a jealous ex. Not all murders are indicative of a Nazi mentality where people kill select others because they do deem them unhuman. Don't allude to having studied something you haven't to prop yourself up.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:53 pm | Report abuse |
      • freedomfromfear

        Todd Beaucoudray – way to miss the point.

        March 13, 2012 at 9:02 pm | Report abuse |
      • David Johnston

        It's not a baby! When will you uneducated or mentally disfunctional people get that?

        March 13, 2012 at 9:56 pm | Report abuse |
      • Rigel54

        The zygote phase may be brief, but it is followed by a long period of development in which neural development does not remotely approach the human level. In these stages no human thought or self-awareness is possible. As to the heart (as though that had any importance, it is after all just a pump), it also goes through long stages before it even approaches that of a human. Your whole argument is built on on mystical fantasy. The Supreme Court, after much study, was right.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • freedomfromfear

      Actually I am humanizing the baby. Again, a zygote and a baby are not the same thing.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:37 pm | Report abuse |
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