Same-sex couples file suit against Defense of Marriage Act
By Stephanie Siek, CNN
(CNN) – Lawyers representing five same-gender couples are suing the federal government over the Defense of Marriage Act, which they say unfairly denies same-sex married couples the right to sponsor their noncitizen spouses for permanent residency in the United States.
Immigration Equality, an advocacy group that supports the rights of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered and HIV-positive immigrants, filed the suit April 2 in New York district court. It names as defendants Attorney General Eric Holder, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Director Alejandro Mayorkas and two other immigration officials.
The suit alleges that the federal government is violating the equal protection clause of the U.S. Constitution by denying rights to one set of legally married couples while preserving the rights of another, based on gender and sexual orientation.
“The five plaintiff couples are like other married couples,” the suit states. “They met, fell in love, and chose to build a life together. They too committed themselves to one another in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. They have honored and kept that commitment to one another. They have chosen to be together and to make the United States their family’s home. However, because they are married to someone of the same sex, they are denied the federal immigration benefits to which different-sex married couples are entitled. They are at constant risk of being forced apart or forced to leave the United States to stay together.”
Each of the couples are in marriages legally recognized by the states in which they reside.
Frances Herbert and Takako Ueda, of Vermont, married last April after living together for 11 years. Takako, a Japanese national, has been in the U.S. on a student visa since 2001. Herbert filed the application for Takako’s permanent residency a few months after their marriage, but it was denied last December. Since then, the couple has lived with the threat of Ueda’s deportation. But they say the filing of this lawsuit, Blesch v. Holder, gives them hope.
“Because of Immigration Equality’s effort and our dedicated team, I feel so positive and optimistic that I can stay here,” Ueda said. “It’s a huge event… I feel I am doing something good for those who are part of a binational same-gender couple.”
“Our private life has shrunk, but it’s worth it,” Herbert said. “It’s humbling to be involved in a significant action towards changing the definition of family on the books. It’s already changed in reality, we all know that. Our family is precious and broad and there are many other families that deserve the right, the chance, to celebrate the core essence of who they are. And to be part of this change is sometimes overwhelming, but also very inspiring.”
The Senate passed a vote to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act last November, but it is seen as unlikely to pass the Republican-controlled House.
About In America
What defines you? Maybe it’s the shade of your skin, the place you grew up, the accent in your words, the make up of your family, the gender you were born with, the intimate relationships you chose to have or your generation? As the American identity changes we will be there to report it. In America is a venue for creative and timely sharing of news that explores who we are. Reach us at inamerica@cnn.com.
Black in America
iReport
Civil unions are the same thing as marriage, with a different name. So at least let them have that! And let's not forget the 14th admendment right, people!
No , they are NOT the same. marriage is for family structure, lineage, rights of blood lines of children, etc.
Man/Man-Woman/Woman is NOT the same as Man/Woman.
Not everybody gets the family they expected. Life is funny that way.
But form should follow substance and not vice versa. My kids are better off with our family, even if there are people roaming arund out there who think they know better!
So, an dyour point is? Since what I said is true, this does not apply for 2 reasons. 1) The 14th Amendment for the STATES, not federal government. 2) Since what I said above is not the same, there is no equal protection under the law issue. A man-man/woman-woman cannot naturally bear children. No there was was the issue of race intermarrying, then yes there would be a 14th Amendment issue.
I don't think you understand the 14th Amendment. What you are thinking of, vis a vis the states, is how it has been deemed to incorporate certain of the rights of the Bill of Rights to the states.
However, the 14th Amendment very much DOES apply to the federal government and has been source of congressional power in many, many laws, including the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It very much empowers the federal Congress to pass certain laws.
That Amendment is not written in Chinese, and well enough English to see it applies to the states only. There is no "equal protection under the law" pertaining to the 3 branches of federal government. Thus their suit is without merit.
While I don't know whether their suit has merit, you are really gaining no ground by denying that the 14th amendment has application to the federal government. To take only the most obvious example, I will reiterate that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 uses the Equal Protection Clause as its basis – as does every other piece of Civil Rights legislation passed since 1877 by the federal government.
I will only encourage you to go look it up rather than continuing to talk and remove all doubt regarding your understanding of our system. Seriously: It's NOT a matter disputed by anyone. The 14th Amendment applies to the federal government, although it has also been the means of incorporating other rights so as to be held against the states. I'm not just being a jerk.
Well at least read the whole Amendment. It does state Congress may enforce the Amendment by legislation. However, wouldn't that violate the commerce clause?
i wonder why we facing all this disaster this days my god what is wrong with human being
Global warming.
Bottom line....its Jack and Jill not Jack and Steve. Get real and stop trying to force YOUR insane lifestyle on everyone else on the planet.
and their lifestyle should bother you, how? prove it's affecting you just a tiny little bit. everyone on the face of this planet deserves to find the love of their lives and you would deny that simply because you don't agree with their lifestyle.
Their argument won't fly. The Equal Protection Clause only applies to the states, not Congress...doh!
Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve! Some of you sick folks need to leave God out of this he will judge your actions end the end! Also I just want to say here on a student visa for 11 years makes you STILL illegal and still breaking the law! GO HOME. And take your partner with you and get her a permanent visa.
Lee, you actually might be as dumb as a box of hair. Smooches from a gay man.
Which Eve? There were 3 of them in the original myth, and Lillith before any of the them.
"Leave god out of it or he'll send you to hell!"
See the contradiction right there?
I have a feeling if there is such a place, you may just have won a ticket.
Marriage has always been an agreement and vow of commitment before the eyes of God. No one can claim that there should be a separation between Church and State when it is in fact of the Church.
Maria, you are incorrect. While churches perform marriage ceremonies, the couple still does have to have a marriage license, which is issued by the STATE. Marriage is a legal contract, not a religious one.
While the state may have inserted itself in the COVENANT that is religious marriage (for the original purpose of promoting stable families...more recently I believe solely for the purpose of promoting new and interesting ways to support taxation and the marriage/divorce industry), it does not mean that the state's version of "marriage" is the correct one. If gays want civil unions, they can knock themselves out. Otherwise, they have no business in marriage. Mainly because they have absolutely ZERO business having or raising children. That is tantamount to child abuse.
last time i checked, the God you speak of was one of love and telerance yet you seem to weighing in on the side of intolerance. ah well...to each his own.
I really can't believe the things so-called 'Christians' say on here. First the name-calling, then the 'slippery slope' nonsense. Finally, we get the self-righteous 'I'm gonna tell my daddy and he's gonna come beat you up so nyaah nyaah' routine. It makes me embarassed to call myself a Christian. What happened to 'judge not lest ye be judged'? Like someone said earlier, it will be between them and God. Unless He retired and left you in charge, it's not up to you to decide who makes it to heaven or not. His Word is true, but don't go using it as a 'cloak of maliciousness'. Makes me wonder what you're REALLY hiding...
You really shouldn't judge Chrisitans either.
Maria, by your logic you really then shouldn't judge Dizzyd for judging Christians, right?
And as our societal decline accelerates we look to the past – Rome. We are coming to join you on the ash heap of once great historical states.
This is disgusting! There's just no other word for it!
What is the "this" that is disgusting?
You want to fix marriage? Let everyone do it, but make divorce illegal.
You are exactly right! By making divorce illegal we give the act of marriage more respect.
She's been in this country for ELEVEN years on a STUDENT visa. This isn't about gay marriage and equal rights this is about a foreign national who has overstayed her visa and should be deported. She has been in violation of immigration law long before she decided to marry.
I don't think you realize how LONG it takes to get US residency do you?
I don't think you do... it took a friend of mine a couple years. NOT ELEVEN.
I agree with you She broke the law . We send hard working people back to Mexico everyday that are just trying to feed families. This is know different imagination should be sending her back 11 years not paying taxes. We have been paying her share and many others.
LOL! There is nobody from Mexico "just trying to feed their familes"!! LOL! They are here for economic reasons, not a lack of jobs.
well, since her partner is an american and probably working and they could be fililng jointly, i'd say she is most likely paying taxes. if the lady in question isn't working, then her partner is supporting her, not your taxes.
Things are changing for the better for gay and lesbian couples. Isn't that great?
I hope these folks succeed.
Oh. I'm generally supportive of families.
I suppose some people aren't?
I do too, Katy. Marriage EQUALITY will someday be the law of the entire country, why can't people get that thru their heads?
We can't "get it through our heads" as you so arrogantly put it, because we vehemently oppose it on both moral and practical grounds.
There already is marriage equality. ALL people consisting of a MAN and a WOMAN can get married. It used to not be thee way..i.e...whites and blacks it was illegal.
In the case of the old anti-miscegenation laws, Person A's right to marry Person B was determined by Person B's RACE. Any racial designation under the law is, of course, subject to strict scrutiny, and the government needs a very good reason for making the designation and carefully tailored means of achieving that end.
In the case of the current laws, Person A's right to marry Person B is determined by Person B's GENDER. Gender designations under the law are not subject to the same level of scrutiny by the courts, but still appear to be subject to something higher than the normal reasonableness review to which laws run-of-the-mill laws – without a gender designation – are subject.
In the case of Loving v. Virginia, the Court did not buy the argument that the miscegenation law was okay because whites could marry whites and blacks could marry blacks. IN this case, as you point out, men can marry women and women can marry men.
Is here a legitimate government interest in allowing the gender designation: men to marry women but not marry men?
Eventually, they're going to say no. That might be in 50 years. But they will.
Jim, you sound revolting. What the heck difference does it matter to you? If you don't support gay marriage, then don't get one. End of Story.
You will face your Reality then there will be no backing out.
excuse me?
The whole world knows that lie is an evil, vile, debauchery that is forbidden. The reality you perverts face will answer you all's quest.
why don't you go picket... doesn't that depend on what one considers sensual...
your subjective POV is yours..so if your not gay, don't marry a gay person.
Remember this, God created all living things. To judge gays, is to judge God.
you all's ?
suing the Attorney General wont change a thing he doesnt passed laws. If they wanted change they should have sued Congress
correction pass
My god, to think that *all* of the lawyers who have ever sued the government have been making this basic simple fundamental mistake for so long. You'd think that all of these lawyers would know more than some random person on the Internet.
LOL... +1 internets for you sir!
Just what we need, – more meaningless gay drivel.
sure, if you think gays are not people too.
nice going tex.
Gays, strickly speaking biologically are not people. You see a gay couple can not reproduce. Reproduction is one of the 10 processes required to be defined as a living creature (Ingestion, digestion, absorbsion, excretion, secretion, movement, assimilation, respiration, response and REPRODUCTION). Technically, they are a virus. As a virus can not reproduce on its own either. It gets something else to reproduce for it... same as GAYS
chume, an animal like you would not have the capacity to think gays are human, so that is perfectly understandable from your inhuman/inhumane perspective.
@ chume
Actually chume a gay person can reproduce. They just can’t with each other.
@ chume
You’re “logic” is terribly flawed and makes for a ridiculous argurment.
About 10% of the US population is infertile, gay and straight. So, a straight person who is infertile isn't a person either? And, as someone pointed out, gay people can and do reproduce. They are capable of doing so, some choose to and some don’t, just like straight people. If a straight person chooses not to reproduce, does that make them a virus too?
A virus can reproduce as well, it infects another cell to do the work... same as gays,
Legally married to an American or not if your illegal then you shold be deported.
the bravery of being out of range....
weak opinion.
It doesn't say they are suing for "illegals" they are suing for "noncitizens". BIG DIFFERENCE!
She has a student visa
Actually she HAD a student Visa. She has been in the US for 11 years, no way did a Student Visa allow her that much time. I am all for the rights of gay and straight marriage, but this woman is here illegally if she no longer carries a valid visa to be here. Plain and simple.
God will never bless gay marriage
Got news for you pal, god doesn't make our laws, if he did we'd have to allow sharia law as an aletrnative to christian law and hindu laws. Thankfully, its only a matter of time before this anti gay law goes up to the supreme court and gets shot down. There's a reason the founding father's wanted to keep religion out of governance, and that is people's rights get trampled, and often religious conflicts result in mass murders.
Jesus had two daddies and he turned out just fine.
God does not bless or not gay marriage. Bigot people like you thing that they have a say in other's people life.
you mean YOU will never bless gay marriages....
@ erik60505
"Jesus had two daddies and he turned out just fine."
excellent point.
Actually... God, being a supreme being would most likely be a hemaphradite. So that would fall under the transgender label I believe. So he would fit right into the LGBT community. So if you think about it, God made us in his image...the gays and freaks and oddballs with two working genital parts... those are in GOD's image. The rest of us were made straight in order to propagate his experiment, but not in his image.
I don't know; He blessed mine. I met my husband in church, and we've been together now for over 24 years. Seems God knew what he was doing for us.
Arthur, you are correct, but only because God is a fictional chatacter. Wise up!
Well your statement is technically correctly. Something that doesn't exist can't bless anything at all.
@ arthurrrr – how ever did you learn to know what God is okay with? The bible? Ok, and just like our laws, the bible was written by man. Biases? You bet.
You are incorrect. My lovely wife and I (we are a happily married lesbian FAMILY) have been married for almost 4 years. Our MARRIAGE is rock-solid and Christ-centered. Is YOURS? Work on your own marriage.
Arthurrr. Thanks for the hot tip. I'm glad to know you have a direct line to G-D. When you talk to him next, ask him what he thinks about you!
arthurrr, this is so insightful and helpful to this discussion. I'm glad we could all hear your input on the topic of gay marriage. It's been a privilege. I'm going to get married one day and I don't think I would really care for god's consent. What would that even do to me? I could probably go to a voodoo lady and she could do more for my future marriage than a supposedly all powerful man that only exists in people's faith and books. Anyways, thanks a lot arthurrr.
In any case where the United States government is being sued, the Department of Justice always represents the government. So the Attorney General of the United States always handles cases like these.
MArriage is a horrible horrible form of slavery and shold be abolished world wide
Let us see where marriage equality exists – Canada, Australia, Germany, Norway, Netherlands, Switzerland, South Africa ....None of these countries have gone down the drain... It is about time we did the same. We cannot/should not deny anyone the opportunity to marry and live with their partner of choice. Everyone deserves the same rights. Live and let live.
Jay, couldn't agree with you more. I have 5 people that I know right now that need benefits and if I just claim I'm married to them, I should be able to get them benefits as my spouses. They are mixed gender, three are female and 2 male, but that shouldn't matter because once we get all of this stuff redefined, anything goes! Good on ya, mate! As soon as some clown tries to tell me I can only have one spouse, I'm throwing a fit and will get it all re-redefined, whatever it takes to get whatever I want to make my life better so I can live as free as I want to! Ye ha partner!
Good to see that a gay mormon is still a mormon. You must have some fun nights!
@crazypete, I am adopting you, crazypete so I can get you benefits too! Yee haw! The next homeless pet I run into yo can bet I'm marrying that bugger and we're going to have benefits for everyone!
Your sarcastic point is that this is about a grab for benefits rather than the very obvious denial of benefits. If you were a person who did not have the rights you already do, you would see this more clearly.
You should have heard the predictions here in Canada! The gays were going to unfairly grab tax refunds and benefits. Society was going to break down. Cats and dogs were going to marry, maybe some guy and a goat. It was the silliest hysteria.
Then it turns out that allowing two consenting adults to marry caused nothing more than that they paid fairly for benefits they actually got.
Love is great and should be celebrated. Hate is ignorant and should be educated.
Nice!
Love it, thank you for the saying!
Frivolous !
STFU
It's nice to see that my country's legislators see me as a second-class citizen because of whom I fall in love with. I'm ashamed to be an American.
I hear ya Charlie. My family has fought in numerous wars for my freedom. Now, I'm under seige by my own countrymen, who have been brainwashed by a 2,000 year old book of talking snakes, and pro slavery.
I have many friends who are talking snakes (although they can talk typing is difficult so I'm helping out) and they would like o express their disappointment with your discriminatory views. Shame on you.
Once they get this settled and benefits are granted, the second punch is landed; the imputed tax. Where is the outcry on this. I'm married and my husband and I pay ALOT more in taxes due to how the Fed see's his benefits as my income. Every straight couple I know drops their jaw when I explain this. I also am ashamed to be an American. Red white and blue apparently stands for hatred, separation and inequality. And we're the first to point a finger at other countries who we think are backwards.....
Charlie, then get the hell out of America. I'm all for gay couples joining in a civil union. I'm even for them having benefits. But FO on calling it a marriage.
I agree.
People who advocate a change in the law should leave!
America is about keeping everything EXACTLY THE SAME.
Geez! Control freak? Who are you to tell anyone what to call their relationship? if you don't like it, don't listen.
Admittedly, its difficult while to type presently as all my boyfriends are in line and taking having their way with me from behinddddddddd oops! But(t) I just want all you straight people/haters out there to know about all the fun their missing out on. This evening will be PACKED with enjoyment. and if you don't like it tooooooooooo bad. oh and since we're filming it all I will be sure to email copies to all you haters so you can watch til your eyes bleed. if you haven't been to the fens you haven't lived.
Yep soooo much fun, all the way up to the point you contract an STD then you'll be crying about how some dude gave it to you. Nevermind the fact that you got this disease from spreading your legs far too often! Get a life, get a job, and stop wasting the air I breathe!
The Packed Fudge Societ strikes once again.
The toothless and ignorant society strikes again.....
What the heck difference does it matter to you? If you don't support gay marriage, then don't get one. End of Story.
20 years ago, the idea that gay marriage would be a hot issue around an election would have been a joke. 20 years from now, people will be asking what the big deal was. Just legalize it for equal treatment under the law and so all this energy can be directed towards the real problems of our country. Gay marriage is not a real problem. If you disagree, prove it with empirical evidence.
You are right about one thing: Twenty years from now "gay" marriage WONT be a big deal. You know why? Because the Looney Left will undoubtedly see to it that SOMETHING even worse and, if possible, even more screwed up will be a big deal. I have no doubt that someday the child molesters, dog and cat lovers, cow-busters and so forth will be part of the Left's brand-new in-crowd.
"I have no doubt that someday the child molesters, dog and cat lovers, cow-busters and so forth will be part of the Left's brand-new in-crowd."
Tex, you have issues, dude. Gross.
Children, cows, dogs, or whatever are not considered capable of consent by any courts, nor will they ever be.
Slippery slope arguments are not your friend.
@ockit, Tex doesn't have issues, but I do. I have a heard of sheep that need veterinary benefits and because of these stupid Defense of Marriage Acts and other discriminating laws, I can't marry them to get them benefits. I am outraged!
Sounds like a PARTY to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I do so much like a good PARTY!
Animals cannot enter contracts. Nor can children. Nor can inanimate objects. So put your sick fantasies aside. Marriage is a civil right as defined by the Supreme Court; denying equal access to this right is against American principals and values.
Actually, gay marriage has been championed by several notable Conservatives – in particular, the father of the modern Conservative movement, Barry Goldwater, was a staunch supporter of gay rights. Support flows directly from the fundamental Conservative ideal that government should NOT interfere with the private lives of its citizens, and should instead remain small and unobtrusive. This really shouldn't be a partisan issue at all; the only reason it is comes from the shrill, lunatic religious theocrats who have usurped the Conservative movement, tossed its core notions in the trash and leveraged the name to ram their own repugnant, odious agenda down the nation's collective throat.
Tex, there are drugs for psychotic delusions such as what you are dealing with. They can help with the paranoia and anxiety and doomsday predictions.
You sound very AFRAID, Tex.
@Tex – You seem so concerned about something that shouldn't concern you. Key word is "shouldn't". You're obviously another self loathing closet case.
You're saying that denying a basic civil right to a group of American citizens is not a problem? May I ask what you *would* consider to be a problem? If I say that my religion says that, say, blue-eyed men are not allowed to vote, and the government agreed with me and passed a ban, would you say that this is also "not a problem?" Just curious.
"The five plaintiff couples are like other married couples... " They are NOT like other married couples.
2 humans = 2 humans . Not sure where u went to school, but you missed the day they taught, well, EVERYTHING>
Seems these stupid "activist groups" keep getting longer stupid names...these clowns will lose the suit...we don't need more perverts in this country...
Grow up.
Ho.mo_s.e.x.uality is being pushed as normal behavior even though the Bible, common sense, medical science and nature testifies that the practice is unhealthy and that this practice is abominable. The per_verts not only want their lifestyles to be tolerated by society they now have become obsessed with brainwashing and bullying society into accepting their per-ver.ted views as being normal. Some think letting them out of the closet was good for society but the name on that closet was Pandora's box. Their unhygienic and promiscuous s3x practices are now helping to spread deadly diseases all over the world.
What's the matter Guest? Worried that if you put your name beside what you just said you'd get fired?
fact of the matter is marriage is and has always been meant between man and woman. It says so in the scriptures so you can say what you want but in the final analysis you and others who think like you are wrong but that is between you and HIM at the end of the day. I have a strong feeling how that will turn out and it certainly will not be in you favor. Guest says it right when he/she says "pervert" because you and others PERVERT, indeed flaunt your disobediance of the Lord's Word. Remember it is not too late yet to change your ways. Certainly dont change it because of my chastisement but change it because you talk and pray to HIM for guidance in these matters.
Prove it. Oh wait, you can't. So shut up and go away.
your bible also says that eating meat and drinking milk at the same time is an abomination, or planting two different types of crops in the same field is an abomination or that wearing two different types of material is an abomination. so whats your point?
Brad, you appear to be such a Bible scholar. What half-page did you read?
So I'm a straight catholic and I for one don't care what the scriptures say about this. If two men want to get married then why should I get in their way? In fact, when I do look at the scriptures I keep getting stuck on the one where Jesus is asked what the greatest law is and he says "You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind. And you must love your neighbor as yourself."
That's pretty much the whole thing for me. Love God. Love your fellow humans. Since I want to be married I see no reason to stop two consenting adults from being married.
i agree with you guest, it is truly ashame.
Wow and I actually thought that we had evolved and had grown as humans should. Instead it is sad to see that so many are still stuck in fear and foolish nonsense. Sad, sad, sad.
one man one woman
Or, in the case of Reagan, Bob Dole, Rush Limbaugh, and Newt Gingrinch–all leaders of the Republican Party–four men, eleven women.
Name one marriage that was one man, one woman! You live in a make-believe, white picket fence illusion.
God said love everyone for those cult people out there.
this is not "defense" of marriage, it is restriction of marriage.
it is defense of what marriage is about according to God Almighty..PERIOD
So I'm expected to follow your religion? I don't think so. Last time I checked, I live in a free country, and that includes freedom from your made-up religion.
your bible condones rape and slavery. it says it is a brothers duty to impregnate his sister in law if her husband dies. why dont you actually read it sometime and dont just pick and choose which parts you want to follow. you can have your god i will take reason and sanity.
What part of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" don't you understand?
Marriage came from God.
Since not everybody believes in "God almighty", they should not have to follow his rules (especially when they come from the same anthology of fairy tales that condones slavery, genocide, chauvenism, and killing of the sick and injured). Sorry to rain on your parade OGRE.
Lots of people say marriage is between a man and a woman and use their religious beliefs as a means of justification. these are the same people that used their religious beliefs to deny women the right to vote or to defend slavery.
If you are a woman and you are using religion then I simply do not want to hear from you unless your man gives me his word that he gave you express permission to partake in a public diologue and he had better be prepared to prove to me that God told him it was ok.
If you are a man and use this argument then I would say you need to tend to your woman and mind your own business.
And teh point is ????? You got lost in your words dude (or dudettt) lol you talk like a pshycho though
You might learn how to spell. The point is a wife could not speak or have an opinion without getting her husband's permission prior to getting the vote and by following the Bible not just selected verses – the husband needs to care for his wife ahead of anything else in his life. That's the point dude!!!
You didn't understand the comment? You really are illiterate. I read it once, and got it. And agree with it.
great bumper slogan but give me some facts to back up your absurd statement
I suggest you read the scriptures and pray
I suggest you get bent.
I second edwardo's suggestion.
I have read it cover to cover and was disgusted with all the condoned rape and slavery that was permitted.
Ogre, as I said to someone else on here – please do us all a favor. Get back to your boring life and stop throwing around your silly moralistic beliefs and trying to press them on others. You know YOUR truth: which is if you were truly happy, you wouldn't be so concerned about denying others theirs. It is that simple. Claim it is about the Bible, God, etc. But you know the truth about yourself deep down. Think about that when you are going to sleep tonight.
Too bad being a bigot is not considered a hate crime. A civilized world has no place for them !!
it has really gotten out of hand.
wicked foul generation that calls evil good and good the evil.
but as long as you got christains lving double lives it will be hard to justify a godly or moral stance.
Evil is anyone that stands up and says that they know the mind of god. I am pretty sure that even your storybook known as the bible says the same thing.
we can know the mind and counsel of God. its called wisdom. God gives it freely to all who ask.
if you read me ENTIRE post, you will note that I admit that part of whats wrong in society is that Christians themselves don't always live 'holy' or moral lives
Marriage is between a man and a woman.
That is a religious definition, and since we are protected against religion in our government, it doesn't apply here. It is IMMORAL to deny Americans equal rights based on myths.
Freethinker – I thought it is immoral to poke another guy from the back- I think it stinks
US guard...you don't get to decide what is moral to another person. You think it stinks? Don't do it
We are not founded on "freedom FROM religion" we are founded on "freedom OF religion" and I certainly highly recommend you find HIM in your life before too late.
ogre12...Which HIM should I choose?
"The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also." – Mark Twain
And I certainly highly recommend you find reason.
Your question is not for me but between the one and only God..you heard of HIM I am sure HIS Son is Jesus. I reason with what HE teaches and it is not something new BTW. So your reason means nothing when all is said and done. What really makes you think your simple mind really think you can complete with the Almighty? Well that is the problem you think with simple human mind and do not realize there is God who created you..sometimes you really need to think with your heart and not your simple human mind.
to finish this you cannot really speak to something you do not comprehend nor care too.
Ogre12... you ignorantly assume that everyone has to be Christian and believe in YOUR God. Christian Taliban???
"that's a religious definition"
Marriage is a religious act.
...and an economic act, and an act of convenience, but for most it is an act of love. Marriage is many things to many cultures. The right to make your own choices is what this country was founded on. The right to choose my own religion or none at all. Separation of church & state grants us that freedom of religion Christians believe only applies to them.
Societies have a right to define their moral, and therefore their legal constructs. There is zero reason to promote gay partnerships with tax incentives or other public benefits. And for the love of all that is good, there is absolutely NO reason to subject a child to the emotionally and developmentally stunting future that is life in an adoptive gay household. So while you seem to believe that our government can only be formed by amoral individuals who will promote "values" that YOU hold dear while the rest of us have to sit on our hands, thankfully, the law says you are sadly mistaken.
blackluke...you are the one who is sadly mistaken. And you comment shows that you are the one who lacks morals. Very sad indeed.
Nope.
For YOU marriage is between a man and a woman. For other people it is different,. Your religious beliefs ONLY apply to YOu and not to anyone else.
societies, not Bible has defined marriage as between man and woman. What is wrong with civil union with same rights as marriage? Simply is Gay movement wants to break down any traditional values to make this abhorrent practice seem normal
the laws and teachings of God Almighty apply to all..you included.
I don't understand what the difference would be other than an increase in paperwork. Might as well just call it all marriage or all civil unions and keep it simple. No point in making things more convoluted than necessary.
@crazyvermont "societies, not Bible has defined marriage as between man and woman. What is wrong with civil union with same rights as marriage?"
The same argument was used up until about 50 years ago with Jim Crow laws. What is wrong with black schools, black water fountains, and black bus seats? "Separate but equal" was not equal then, and it is not equal now.
People are born black. None are born as sin.
Maria, please do us all a favor. Get back to your boring life and stop throwing around your silly moralistic beliefs and trying to press them on others. You know your truth: which is if you were truly happy, you wouldn't be so concerned about denying others theirs. It is that simple. Claim it is about the Bible, God, etc. But you know the truth about yourself deep down.
truth simply stated!
Orge12 you said "to finish this you cannot really speak to something you do not comprehend nor care too" You do not know either, nor then, should you speak to what you do not comprehend. If you did comprehend, you would not deny anyone who loves each other the right to visit each other in the hospital when sick, celebrate their love in the venue of their choice, have their government recognize them equally as they do others. SO you should take your own advice, and DO NOT speak to what you do not comprehend...or care to!!
Thankfully, Andrew, people of your opinion are a dying breed.
Why can't we all just get a long and be happy.
Because some people like to assert their opinions and beliefs over the private lives of consenting adults.
It's not private when you are trying to shove it down people's throats.
I agree why can't we all just get along.
Ok so if marriage is between a man and a woman only then why don't we pass a federal ban on all divorces. If you get married then you are stuck with that person for ever and no second or third or forth... marriages. If i rember correctly the scriptures/bible does state that divorce is just as bad as gay marriage.
I also think if marrage is only for procreation then lets also ban all marriages that do not produce children. Or give each married couple say 5 yrs to procrate and if they can not or choose not then nullify their marriage?
you are correct but divorce is ok to christians because it doesnt make them feel icky.
Agreed fellow Mormon. This should be a free-for-all act as you wish, do what you want country and not a country with morals, icky. Now, as a Mormon, my cat just had a litter of kittens and I want to marry them so I can get them veterinary benefits. Why should that be wrong??? They are my spouses and are very dear to me. I should be able to flash my medical benefits card at the vets and they should accept it and bill my insurance company. Maybe a little co-pay in there, but then my kittens will be able to be healthy kittens and once I have grandkittens I should be able to marry them as well! Mormons are all about marrying but this stupid DOMA is killing our beliefs...
Mormon... its called Pet Insurance...look into it... and since your cat cannot leagally consent as two human adults can... I hope they arrest you for animal abuse and beastiality. P.S. Maybe you should out your cat on birth control... She really should not be having children she cannot financially support.